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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 4, 2010 10:42:46 GMT -5
Spartacus seems to be very ignorant because he thinks it is left wing and it is communism if fair business practices were to put into place and laws and government legislations in ensuring that businesses practice fair business practices and minimum wages laws are strictly enforced to ensure that a company or a corporation isn't using cheap labour and paying it's workers little to nothing in which it is known as the 21st centuary slavery.
Spartacus if according to your logic, the economy should be run like that because according to you it is right wing, your parents would be working their arses of and be lucky to even earn 5 dollars a day. You would then be living in the streets as a homeless hobbo.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 4, 2010 11:26:38 GMT -5
I'm not even going to respond to the Ronald Reagan accusations because that is just absurd.
Government inside schools has caused the US educational system to deteriorate. What once was the best educational system in the world is now the laughing stock. So you want government deciding what our kids can and cannot learn? Wow. There were men named Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin that believed government should decide how to indoctrinate their youth, that didn't work out too well. 2 Trillion dollars of tax payer money has just been eaten by the bureaucrats and the educational system is a mess. Reagan was right in wanting to get the government out of our schools.
Rocketfeller said in his own words that oil should be cheap for every American family. If we did not have men like Rocketfeller or Carnegie, we would still be living in huts. We would not be working long hours because firms will have to make their workers happy otherwise they will work for their competitors. Unions are not a bad thing per-say, only the moment they try to use government force and beat up people who try to work in their place, while they are out striking is what I call messed up.
You tell a private firm what to do, you might as well allow government to tell a private household what to do. Corporations and monopolies result because of government favoritism. If government gives subsidies to certaine firms and forbids competitors from entering the market, that is not Capitalism. That is government intervention which creates corporatism.
George Washington freed his slaves upon his death and even paid for them to be educated.
The South thought that they could win the war on cotton, but that proved a failure. Cotton was no longer king at the time. With the Missouri Compromise, slavery was already on its death bed. Guys like Lincoln simply wanted to wait out for slavery to die on its own. The South could no longer expand slavery into the other states, the slave trade was banned, and slavery was no longer economically efficient. Slavery was on its way of dying and many of the slave states were already on their way to ban slavery, such as Missouri and Kentucky before the Civil War started.
This is called comparative advantage. Countries like China who have low-skilled labor rely on producing more raw materials because they find that if they specialize on these products, they will produce more money than if they focused on something like making ipods or electronics.
They tried the same thing in World Cup 98, Fifa stopped buying the soccer balls from the middle east because the kids were working in sweat shops making them. But since these kids no longer had a job anymore, they were working in ditches under much worse conditions because they had no other job to fall back on. So no, messing with the market does not help.
You cannot tell a private firm how much to pay their workers. You let the market decide. If walmart is underpaying their employees, their competitors will offer them a better deal if they come work for them. Paying workers really bad wages is not as easy as you think it is. There are many consequences which with a free market, would be resolved.
This is a basic concept called comparative advantage. Countries with low-skilled labor benefit more from trade if they specialize in one area of production. The middle east cannot suddenly start making computer chips, because they will lose a lot of resources and time once dedicated to making raw materials. It's not economically beneficial for them.
And tt is not Capitalism that causes countries to become poor. Why is it that capitalist countries are the ones who are better off than the other big-government countries? Socialism doesn't work.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 4, 2010 11:37:46 GMT -5
Spartacus seems to be very ignorant because he thinks it is left wing and it is communism if fair business practices were to put into place and laws and government legislations in ensuring that businesses practice fair business practices and minimum wages laws are strictly enforced to ensure that a company or a corporation isn't using cheap labour and paying it's workers little to nothing in which it is known as the 21st centuary slavery. Spartacus if according to your logic, the economy should be run like that because according to you it is right wing, your parents would be working their arses of and be lucky to even earn 5 dollars a day. You would then be living in the streets as a homeless hobbo. First of all minimum wage is not what the US Constitution allows. The government doesn't have the power to tell a private firm how much to pay their workers. If you hire some people to repair your roof and offer them $500, I assume you wouldn't want the government coming in saying "I want you to pay them $700". You might say no, and the workers who were once well off with getting $500 are out of a job. You seem to think that "hey, if government forces firms to pay more than the market value, everyone is happy." Have you ever considered the people who lose? If a company has to pay more money than they can afford, they will lay off some workers and be reluctant to hire more workers. Unemployment will increase and this is assuming the firm stays in business! If a firm has to pay more money, they look for a way to maintain profits to stay in business. They will have to raise their prices to cover these costs. People won't buy their products if they can but them somewhere else for cheaper. So a firm can go out of business, and even those workers who the minimum wage was supposed to protect are now out of a job. This is what happens when you try to manipulate the market. These government regulations are in no way fair. They benefit some corporate firms and exclude other businesses. Small businesses are now forced to pay for some useless safety equipment that is too expensive for them to stay in business, this is good news for the corporations who maintain their government backed monopoly. My parents would not be making $5 a day because they would work for the firm which gives them the best offer. And the so-called $5 may sound cheap today, but it used to buy a lot before the government started printing more money to finance their debt and social-welfare programs.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 4, 2010 11:50:09 GMT -5
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 4, 2010 13:49:57 GMT -5
Can you idiots have a single argument without degrading yourself to those names? Your politicians are closer to Hitler than any bleeding heart liberal. Almost every nation of the modern west has socialized education and for them it works fine. European schools shine in comparison to American underfunded traps. And without the government intervening people would still be learning that the world was created in 6 days 5000 years ago. Fact is I oppose the government teaching my kids because the textbooks are written today by morons coming from your political wing, who wish to teach children that evolution and creationism are equal, America saved the world during WWII and that our collapsing system is somehow the only truth possible that the poor are poor because they choose to be. A whitewashed colored down understanding of history. I would rather every American read something like A People's History of the United States than the empty Texan written books. Truth hurts. Want to read more into it? Read Good Muslim/Bad Muslim and Politics of Heroin. On top of that Punishing the Poor would also help. Outside of the BS publications of the politicians such as Newt Gingrich or the Fox News morons, have you read a single noteworthy study? I doubt it. Lol!! Im supposed to believe the words of power hungry and greedy individuals? I asked you a simple thing: go on youtube and listen to the YALE UNIVERSITY lectures on the Civil War. You have failed to, probably Yale professors are liberal nuts also I presume... but then again, the fact that around 90% of all academia is made up of "bleeding heart secular animals" speaks well for the conservative (and racist) morons of this country. Especially as men like Reagan openly discounted scientific research in favor of presumptions: By Reagan (denouncing the publications of the country's top academia): Conservativism and your policy makers have founded an entire ideology on ignorance of both their own (through their elitist, racist and myopic views) and that of their voting base (equally racist while not nearly as rich). It is founded upon a denial of the intellectual groupings of America. The very leaders of the "Tea Party" are either the lowest racist groups or frauds (such as one of its leaders who is supposed to be a "doctor" without even holding an actual Doctorate or being a member of any medical group, he made up his own). WHAT??? This is entirely disproven in the late 19th century and early 20th. Thats called exploitation, a common facet of pure capitalism. It doesnt work, sorry. In south America some of these people who work in these factors can barely pay of their housing, they neoliberal government has sold them to companies who do their utmost to keep wages at their lowest and leave the moment they see a rise. Saying "they wouldnt have a job" doesnt change the situation. By that account forcing an unemployed girl to strip or prostitute herself is okay. Its not. its immoral. The wealthy have a duty to pay people accordingly and properly if we are to be founded upon an idea that we are all equal... but clearly the presumptions of capitalism dont work that way, not everyone has the same opportunity and even when they are given the most remote chance of it (like with EOP programs) those at the top scream against it. The world is founded upon inequality of people and raw capitalism exploits that to the extreme. Without those kids in China slaving for a dollar an hour we wouldnt have a brand new Ipod (which is not even cheap compared to what its made with). Btw, here is some interesting news for you: a11news.com/3193/apple-ipod-factory-suicides/I guess these people are really happy to "simply have employment". Ofcourse the middle class of America doesnt want big government, because they couldnt care less about the blacks and other minorities, they couldnt care less about the exploited people abroad... they care only about themselves and their churches thats why pro-lifers are never protesting against the death penalty. This nation was founded upon unadulterated racism of an elite group who has its fingers wraped around its more unfortunate members (white lower class groups) through their racism and empty faith (ironically they have gotten to the point of intertwining Christianity, a religion whose economic-social ideology is closer to socialism, with capitalist values). Ill end here, I have no point in reading anymore nor posting anymore: Fact is the "ideals" of capitalism were disproven a century ago but the idiots remain idiots. This is why this country is collapsing on the inside. Honestly, Im laughing as I watch one more WASP lose his house and way of life... maybe they will now be able to realize, but more probably the elites will win out again... the ignorant remain as ignorant (and racist) as ever. I personally dont plan on clinging on to this sinking ship.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 4, 2010 15:28:33 GMT -5
Socialized education does not work fine. Why are educational institutions always out of money when they are government run? Why is there always a budget crisis? Europeans are better educated now than American's because Europeans allow choice. This is one thing they have right. Americans must follow the district system, meaning if you live within a certain area you have to go to that school no matter what. In Belgium on the other hand, parents get to choose which school they want to send their kids. This forces schools to be more productive and do a better job, because if they do not, parents will send their kids somewhere else.
With the Federal Dept of Education, schools have no incentive to improve because they are getting subsidies anyway. Whoever has better lobbyists in Washington gets the most funding.
If you support government running our schools, you are supporting something the Nazis did. They had government run schools where they were teaching kids that Hitler was a demi-god. Why not allow private schools to decide what they can teach and the students with their parents can decide which school to go to? Allowing government the power to run education is allowing them to indoctrinate our youth.
Textbooks are teaching left-wing propaganda. Have you ever heard of Howard Zinn? He was a self-proclaimed Socialist and we read his textbooks in my history classes. The universities and schools are flocked with baby-boomer hippies who grew up in an environment where they got everything they wanted from the government.
Why should schools be forced to preach atheism in the classroom?
America did not really save the world from WWII. They contributed, but come on now, the Russians bared the brunt of the burden.
And it's just funny how you now mentioned Howard Zinn's "A Peoples History of the US". I had to read that book and it is anything but fair. Zinn was a Socialist and you can even tell by the title "A Peoples History." People should be reading more Thomas Jefferson, Mises, Freidman, The Constitution, Locke, and not Liberal-Fascism.
I am not a fan of Newt Gingrich. The majority of Republicans call themselves low-government conservatives when they are not. Read Andrew Napalitano, Ron Paul, or John Stossel instead of what you watch off a Bill Maher movie or MSNBC.
And the academia is doing a great job indoctrinating the youth like you have just demonstrated. It is because teaching kids about the founding fathers, small government, libertarian philosophy, and natural law is something that can get a teacher fired in today's culture. I ask you to watch
Yea, Reagan was right. The so called "Progressives" believed that it's nobodys fault if they commit a crime, the problem is the society. The same people who believed the state should take children away from their parents if they believe the parents are raising them the "wrong way."
Capitalism does give everyone the same opportunity. You are confusing equality and opportunity. Everyone has a right to start their own business, to invent, and keep what they earn. Everyone has a right to succeed and a right to fail. But nobody ever has a right to "equal stuff." You are equal before the law, but you cannot take what belongs to someone and give it to another. That is theft.
You still haven't explained the World Cup problem. How would have you fixed the problem? What goes on in China is not the fault of Capitalism, it's their current government policies that cause people to remain unskilled. You should be blaming Socialism, which punishes people from becoming self-sufficient, inventive, or intuitive.
Yea, if you don't want big government you hate minorities. Many minorities don't like big government either. You have a stupid argument that the far left always uses in a desperate attempt to explain why we need more government when it has already caused this recession. Using the race-card is not so popular anymore.
The Catholic Church does not support the death penalty. Please don't make false accusations because it makes you look a bit uneducated. Jesus never said that the government should take stuff from someone and give it to others. He wanted us to be charitable. And charity is not socialism. Charity is when you give to those less fortunate out of your own free will. Socialism is taking your property by force, against your will, and giving it to someone else. That is called theft! People become less charitable in societies where Socialism exists because they depend on government to fix everything. You don't see people starving on the streets or in bread lines in Capitalist countries. The so-called Socialism, savior of the poor, doesn't treat their poor very well.
I think Socialism and Marxism were disproved long time ago and Capitalism proves why government is never the answer. Looking at the current financial crisis, government run economies don't work.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 4, 2010 19:13:55 GMT -5
In Australia, there are laws and regulations which regulates minimum wages and salary awards to workers, there are also laws and legislations that ensure that all businesses are inline with fair business practices. Not all Companies are nice in which you try to make out, there are plenty out there that are willing to exploit the average person and pay them way below what the market demands and way below the minimum wage, that is called slavery and exploitation, because of this there are plenty of people that are employed and are still considered as poverty or below poverty, if there are no minimum wages/salary, the poverty rate increases, therefore there are less consumers and businesses alone will not be able to make any money because plenty of people will just not be able to afford goods and services to which firms offer consumers.
Well Spartacus, not all businesses are successful and yes i do consider the people that looses money, however if you got a good business plan, a disaster recovery plan and you only hire adequate staff depending on what the work is, what type of firm it is and keeping inline with the market value and minimum wages, the company can become successful but you need to consider one thing spartacus, nobody is going to work for free.
Without workers, there are no production, no productivity, the company isn't operational and therefore not making any money but making a loss everyday and then the company goes bust.
It is the workers to keep companies and businesses running.
That is actually true but there is one problem. The problem is that the cost of good's and services will not be cheaper and they are only going to increase their prices, while continuing to pay it's workers way below the minimum wage/salary.
As i said before, the only way consumers will be able to buy goods and services is if they have money to spend but according to your logic, a corporation is allowed to exploit it workers and pay it's workers way below the minimum breaking point, the money the workers earn isn't even sufficient enough to pay bills, food, water and shelter let alone buying goods and services.
Cheap labour and expensive products do not work. The only way it would work is if the price value of a product is decreased to a point which allows an average person to earn 5 to 20 dollars minimum a day to purchase goods and services in which businesses and firms have to offer to the consumers or else having cheap labour and expensive prices will only increase poverty rate.
That is not true at all. Small businesses are actually encouraged by the government and allows government support to allow small businesses to run and to even grow and become successful. But you just need to know how to run a business and maintain it in the first place. As i said before, not all businesses are successful, but if you know how to run a business, write up a good business plan and a DRP, your business will do great.
I am pretty sure that banks allow people to take out business loans for those that want to open their own businesses.
But as i said before, if you know how to run a business, it will be successful but if you don't know anything about businesses or do not maintain a good business, it will go bust. Simple as that.
And about the safety equipments, well Spartacus you also need to consider the well being of your workers and ensure that your workers are treated properly and that each business practices OS&S.
If you never heard of OH&S, it is Occupational Health and Safety and you should google it up then you will understand why the government has legislations on businesses to ensure they have safe and proper equipments.
If all firms all of a sudden decided to pay their workers only 5 dollars a day while the prices of everything stays the same, how will that personally affect you and your family?
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 4, 2010 19:55:22 GMT -5
Spartacus, there is already a choice, there are private schools and public school's, public school's are government run, private schools are indivudually run by one person, however not everybody can afford to goto a private school/college in which it cost a student of upto thousands to tens of thousands of dollars of tiution fee, therefore the government is providing free education for everybody that wishes to take it and you are one of them that attended public school, primary, secondary and high school. So that must make you a Socialist or a Communist? The EU, practically almost all EU states are in reccession, towards banksruptcy, they have been having trouble with their budget for quite sometime now. The USA is over 50 trillions of dollars in foreign debt and it is gradually increasing, almost everysingle country is in debt in this world, so the economic crisis is world wide, not to individual countries. But i have to admit that USA is doing better than the EU at the moment. Australia is doing alot better than both EU and the USA. Governments were running public schools even before the Nazi regime but Spartacus don't you consider yourself as a Nazi or a Fascist in which you openly admitted many times that you consider yourself as one?? An Ustasa LOL So the USSR succeeded in making USA a Communist state? They don't. But they do not preach religion to other people with different beliefs. If you want a school that preaches religion like Catholic, than goto a Catholic or a Christian School/College. The Options are open and everybody in a democratic state has a choice to choose which school they wish to attend whether be private or public. I despise Communism but i am very skeptical of Capitalism because of this question, How do you start your own business if you do not have money to spend and the funding needed to start your own business?? Fact 1 - According to you, Firms should be able to pay it's workers what ever the price suits them, therefore any business would prefer paying their workers 5 or 10 dollars a day as oppose to hourly rates. Therefore no money equals to funds to start your own business. Also no bank will loan you money if you do not have something the bank wants to put as security and as liable if the business goes bust. Fact 2 - Governments will not provide a stimilus or some form of government assistance and incentives to giving people a chance to start their own business because it is Communism and Socialism. Government run economy does not work. Therefore again there is no money and no funding to start your own business. Fact 3 - Bigger businesses will undercut small businesses because small businesses cannot afford to lower their prices down, therefore consumers will go else were. This equals to Brutal Corporatism, Monopolisation and most small businesses will fail because not because of how well or bad you run your business and how great your business plan is but because there is a thing called monopoly which makes it impossible for businesses to succeed. No fair business practices laws and legislations means no equality and equal opportunities and choices. So what is the point of your capitalism if it doesn't benefit anyone else but those who are already rich. As i said before, i despise socialism and communism but i am very skeptical of capitalism and i think there needs to be a balance somewhere to a point which allows everyone to benefit. However those that bludge and root the welfare system shouldn't be getting any money at all and should rott in poverty.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 4, 2010 22:59:43 GMT -5
Company's don't have to be nice. Entrepreneurs don't have to be nice guys. There are many who are generous and donate much of what they earn to charity, however with modern media they are often blacklisted. But we assume that company's are rational. The key is that everybody is rational and firms operate with rational behavior.
A firm cannot pay its employees wages below market level because its competitor, who is operating rationally to improve its business, will offer a better deal to the workers. Workers who are experienced and been working for that employer for a while develop a much higher value. A rational owner will pay its employees market value, perhaps more to the more skilled employees, because a laborer who contributes a lot to the firm is difficult to replace.
Even if a firm is still stubborn for some reason and doesn't pay market wages, unions can step in. Unions were once good because they formed a block of workers who just wanted market wages and safety. However, recently unions have become the corrupt lobbying bullies that they are today.
Having minimum wage laws do not prevent people from becoming poor, they contribute to poverty! Minimum wage is basically forcing an owner to place a value on his employees. If the min wage is $10, he might not see a lot of his workers worth $10 and fire them. The people who lose out are pretty much the unskilled and poor. They once had a job where they could try to rise on top of the ladder and now they have no job.
If we think that the solution is to simply force employers to pay more money to their workers, why stop at $8 an hour? Why not have employers pay their workers $20 and hour? $50 or $100 an hour?
Nobody is going to work for free, but also nobody is going to operate a business if they are losing money. On many occasions, minimum wage increases a firms average costs that profits don't make up for, resulting in firms shutting down.
Workers are important, but without investors and owners, their will be no auto industry, farmers market, ipods, computers, barber shops etc.
No, a corporation should not exploit its workers but the market is what will prevent that. Government intervention is what exploits people. Favoring special firms, stopping other people from competing with the favored firms, printing more money to finance the national debt, taking a workers wages for the income tax is what is exploiting people.
Government has tried to decrease prices with price ceilings, but they haven't worked. The US has forced landlords not to raise prices for apartments so tenants can afford them. This causes housing shortages, and landlords cannot keep up with the rising cost of living without raising their own prices. This is the reason why many rent controlled houses are never repaired or fixed because the landlord has no incentive in improving his apartments if there is a housing shortage.
You cannot force people to lower prices because the result will be a shortage. And if producers see that prices are too low, they won't even bother producing the good.
Some businesses will be successful others will not. That is freedom. But you cannot reward firms for being unsuccessful with bail out money. If a company knows that if they make big mistakes, the government will bail them out, they are going to become careless with their decisions.
Government does not to play a role in safety equipment. A business will naturally protect their investments and provide their own safety. If an airline company is threatened with terrorism, they will definitely take up safety precautions to protect their investments. If you have a lot of money at stake, you are going to do everything you can to protect that investment.
The reason why things such as 9/11 happened was because government is simply incapable of being efficient. Government laws don't allow airline pilots to have a gun. If the airline company were allowed to make their own decisions, they would arm their pilots to protect their passengers. Same with airport security. Airlines would manage it much better than any government.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 4, 2010 23:24:46 GMT -5
Nobody can afford to go to a private school because government grants subsidies to public schools and makes public schools appear to be "free." Private schools cannot compete with government-run schools because private schools rely on performance and tuition to survive, whereas public schools just consume tax-payer money. Private schools lose a lot of students and need to raise tuition to cover the costs of operating. If there were no public schools, private schools would be competing with one another setting cheaper rates and better education.
But it doesn't make it right. Governments running the schools indoctrinate the youth into believing whatever the government chooses. This is why it is dangerous to ban private schools, which offer to only other relief from what the government is trying to teach. Government schools are already drugging our kids, telling kids that they don't have to tell their parents if they're pregnant, giving condoms to children, etc. These sorts of things are reserved for the parents to deal with, not the schools.
You don't have to preach a particular religion to people, but you also can't force people not to openly practice their belief's. Censoring religion in order to say "not everybody is of the same faith" favors the atheists who want religion eliminated.
You take up a loan from a bank or from investors. Government has no right to give you tax-payer money to run your own business. If you want to be successful, there will be risks.
No bank will loan you money if you don't have anything to prove that you are a good investment. But the banker is risking his own money when giving out the loan. If you lend a guy $50 and he never pays you back, are going to loan him another $100? This is one of the reason why there is a financial crisis. Government believed everybody has a right to own a home, they forced banks to give loans to people who had a poor credit history. Once these people couldn't afford to pay off the loan, the housing crisis came about.
Any business would prefer paying their workers less just as any human being would. If some guy charged you $50 to fix your computer, you would prefer if he charged only $1. But that doesn't happen. The market will make the adjustments and prevent firms from paying very low wages. If government said all people who repair computers can only charge $1, there would be no computer repairers. If a firm making light bulbs offered to pay their workers $1 a day, nobody would work for them. People would go into other professions. So the light bulb firm will have to bump up the wages.
Most of the monopolies we see today are here because of government. The medicine industry is in bed with government. That is why we can't get newer, better medicines into the market because the big pharmaceutical company's are going to lose to the competition. Government forbidding competitors from entering the industry contribute to these monopolies.
In farming, the US has the Department of Agriculture. The government requires farmers to meet certain so called "health standards" managed by the FDA. These standards are so expensive to enforce because the government mandated safety equipment costs a lot of money. The small family farms can't afford these costs and they lose. The big farms love government intervention, because they can squeeze out their smaller competitors.
Capitalism does not benefit the rich. It benefits everyone because the products meet the demands of the consumers. In the USSR there were shortages of bread but the shops had plenty of equipment that nobody wanted in stock. Government running the economy is a recipe for disaster because government agents do not respond to consumer demand. It is better to be poor in a capitalist country than a socialist country. Capitalist countries even have less poor people than socialist countries do. It is because Capitalism prospers.
You cannot have both. It's like saying you're pregnant or you're not. You either are or you're not. The US currently has a bit of both, and its prosperity has declined from what it once was.
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Post by Marshall_Stanko on Aug 5, 2010 2:08:17 GMT -5
That is true, and yes there are plenty of companies and entrepreneurs that are fair and generious, heck there was an article just about them today that was written and posted on yahoo news about over 50 billionaires world wide including Bill Gates that they announced they are giving away 40% of their wealth to charity, giving back to the community and donating money where it is needed. But then you have firms and entreneneurs that are gready and all they care about and what is money and they will do everything at all cost to grab the biggest piece of the cake, including exploiting their workers, firing them and rehiring them and forcing them to sign a new works relation contract which cuts their salary or working wages by over 50-90% less than what they use to receive when they worked for the firm and for that person.
Entrepreneurs do not have to be nice that is true but the government has made incentives for the employee's and enforced laws and legislations which protects employee's at work and ensures that each and every employee has rights and equal opportunities. There are also laws which protects employee's from being discriminated, harassed, treated poorly and even go as far as protecting them from unfair dismissles. But nothing stops a company, the boss or the owner from firing employees who are not doing a good enough job, that are bludging and not doing any work or enough work and yet they are getting paid for doing nothing, that is why there are also laws and legislations which gives the employer rights to practice it's authority in firing workers that are not doing a good enough job and those that are not experience.
But now days people are getting the sact due to redundancies, moving businesses, moving production to another location, another country due to a number factor of reasons, mostly investment and money wise. Most of all cheap labour, there are also cost effective ways of boosting productivity while reducing the number of staffs due to technologies which are emerging and comming into our big part of our daily lives for example newer computers, everything is done electronically, what use to take itleast 5 or 10 workers to do a task can now be managed by one person due to newer technologies.
That is where smart business thinking and companies being rational comes into play.
Exactly, which is why many companies cannot just all of a sudden cut down their weekly salary for example, from a $1,500 dollars a week down to $500 for a labourer, or else they will just quit and find a better company to work for which will stick to the market value and minimum wage awards.
Not only are the employee's loosing out, but the company is loosing out even more therefore down time occures and for each day the company is not in productivity, the company looses out ten's of thousands of dollars per hour. Without employee's to run the business, the business will die. Simple as that.
To be honest, unions are gready people aswell, these organisations are gready, currupted and the only these unions will protect you and fight for your rights is if you give them a percentage of your pay to them so i would love it if the government banned unions overall and only allowed employee's to form a union of their own, the employees to unionise themselves atleast then there will be a proper dialog, negotiation and communication between the employer and the employee's.
Or else like this, the Union is a gready organisation that only puts money into their own pockets.
No it doesn't, but it sure as hell protects employee's from being exploited and reassures their rights and equal opportunities. Yes a person that is 1 year or less than a year experience in a particular industry shouldn't expect and should not be paid the same amount as the person that has been in the industry for over 10-20 years. That is a fact and that is common sense.
The funny thing is that employees are being paid for example $20 an hour, $50 , $100 or more depending what type of work and industry and the type of work position that employee is.
But nobody expects a person that is a receptionist to be arning $100 an hour or upto $100,000 a year because that would be ridiciolous.
If you know how to run a business, than these things will not worry you, also today's technologies do not require as many staffs as they did back 10 years ago or 20-50 years ago, workers redundancy has been on a increase for the last 5 years now.
Exactly.
People will always find a way to exploit everything, the business owners will always find a way to exploit it's employers just as much as how the employee's will find a way to exploit the system and exploit the market in forcing the corporation to raise salaries and wages. But now days, as always it's been if a staff member isn't making any money back in return, for example a staff member gets paid 80,000 dollars a year, the staff member will have to make 160,000 a year inorder to be paid 80,000 a year, if the staff member doesn't, the employer has every rights to sact that person. Simple as that.
However if the government does intervene way too much, there is nothing stopping the corporations and businesses from moving to another state or country where it is more business and investment friendly. But at the same time there must be a balance on how much the government can intervene, for example if that corporation is not respecting the national laws of that country, for example dodging taxes, and exploiting the system and being caught on fraud or criminal activities than there is nothing stopping the government from stepping in.
That is where Fair Business Practices comes into play, preventing monopoly businesses from undercutting other businesses, brutal corporatism and forcing other businesses to go bankrupt, because they cannot compete against certain monopolies that are lowering their prices of goods and services way below the market value.
I agree with you on that and it is pretty unfair on other businesses, yes the government shouldn't bail these busineses out because they will start to be more careless and all of our tax money will be wasted for bailing these companies out yet there is nothing stopping them from making another bad business move and asking the government for bail out again.
True which is why there shouldn't be a problem with these safety laws and legislations.
Their CIA knew about the 9/11 before it happened but did nothing to stop it from happening. National Security should be our first and biggest priority before anything else.
Well if public schools were to be abolished, it will be the poor's that will never get the opportunity to have an education, it will only be the rich and the middle classes. That is why the public schools are here to provide each and every citizen the equal opportunity and chance to have a education.
Nobody will is trying to ban private school's, why would they want to ban private school's and colleges, not only would that be unfair but it would also be discriminating aswell.
But don't certain things that are taught at public school's require parental permission??
Everyone is free to practice religion in public school's, these things are not censored and i am pretty sure public school's have scriptures, that they have classes at certain period for example 30 minutes or an hour of class for certain students for Catholics, Orthodox, Islamic faiths etc.. These things are pretty much active in public schools.
That is for anything, and if you do not have a job and you do not have a satisfactory level of income then you cannot take out a loan, whether be it for personal or house loan, no bank will risk loosing money by lending money, if they loan money they expect to have some form of security so in an event you are unable to repay your debts then the bank can for example take your house and everything you own in possession inorder to pay off debt.
Well the cost would be so much higher with countless of lawsuits if a person is found to have contracted a deadly disease or has gotten food poisioning and it kills them or damages their health to an extent that cannot be fixed, your farm business would be in countless debt due to not meeting the health requirements. P
aying that little more money to guarentee that your goods will not harm the consumer is a very small price to pay.
Neither Capitalism or Socialism/Communism benefits the nation or the people. Socialism/Communism benefits the government only and allows for curruption to reach frightening levels in which the government is stealing tax payers money and putting it into their own pockets. Businesses in a Socialist/Communist environment has no chance of survival and the economy will just plummet which makes the country go into a revolution, it's own people rebelling against the country and a civil war then begins.
Capitalism benefits the rich, such a system allows big large corporations to bribe the government which allows large corporations to undercut smaller and medium size enterprises, forcefully buying out all small and medium size businesses, it also allows corporations for example to buy beaches and than putting up cost for the locals to pay to goto their own beaches and raising up resort prices to an extent to which the locals cannot afford.
This type of capitalism is already happening in both Montenegro and Croatia in which beaches are allowed to be privatised, locals to be left with nothing, not even work and not being able to afford to goto the beach. The only people that can afford to go are the rich people. So without government regulations there is so much what a person that owns a monopoly could do without proper government regulations.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Aug 9, 2010 12:40:31 GMT -5
Please Melty, FDR's reforms only lessened the burden slightly for the people so there wasn't a full on revolt. Since Woodrow Wilson signed the Federal Reserve act and effectively gave control of our monetary power to the federal reserve (which is neither federal, or a reserve, mind you), these throwaway "reforms" to give the people a few scraps when you have royally shafted them are a slap in the face of the ideals of the founding fathers of this once great nation. On the "backs" of which country? This "cheap" revolution is what is giving china its incredible growth potential. This is the basics of economics and free trade. Don't blame global business tactics on paleoconservatives like Spartacus, he totally opposes free trade. Everything you have said in this entire thread (besides the non-interventionism, which i agree with) is a fallacy. What made America great was its industry and free enterprise, and the fact that you could reap what you sow. Government did its job in the limited capacity that it had and things worked well. We seem to agree on the basics, but you guys on the left have a warped view on things. You have not considered Spartacus' point at all. Think about it, he probably wants the following -Abolish the federal reserve and declare our national debt invalid -Abolish the IRS and only tax corporations -Stop free trade agreements between the United States and the third world to make American products more competitive on the domestic market. What you want to do. -Socialized medicine (more taxes on the middle class) - Wealth redistribution programs (more taxes on the middle class) How is anything that you want to do going to solve this country's fundamental issues at all? The reason the middle class is suffering in this country is because they can no longer compete with the "middle class" of other countries on a global scale and are losing the economic war that began with the liberalization of trade. Right on captain!! The question of this thread should be, is the American middle class and all western middle classes being demolished with intent? YES!! To bring in communism, the middle class has to be destroyed. Thats not correct, other countries middle classes are not winning. Wealth is being leveled among all people of the world. It is why both republicans and democrats want to flood the country with Mexicans, this will eventually rise the wealth of Mexicans a little and drag the Americans down, leveling them. Thats SOCIALISM! In our lifetime USA will join a regional government with Canada and Mexico, like EU for Europe. And eventually a world government will be formed. The sheeple will never get it, because sheeple are not people, sheeple like toskali cannot break from herd mentality.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Aug 9, 2010 14:19:36 GMT -5
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Post by captainalbania on Aug 10, 2010 16:07:07 GMT -5
^ Thank you,
If I may recommend some books to some of our so called "liberal" opponents on economic theory. (Toskaliku & Stankoisaserb) Friedrich von Hayek - The Road to Serfdom (1944) ISBN number: 0-226-32061-8 -Explains "the danger of tyranny that inevitably results from government control of economic decision-making through central planning," This is a classical liberal book by a nobel laureate.
Here is another from the Austrian school thinkers. Human Action: A Treatise on Economics by Ludwig von Mises
Here is the premier economics book that laid the groundwork for the modern economy An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
If you cant understand these three books then you have no purpose commenting on economic theory.
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Post by spartacus on Aug 10, 2010 20:55:18 GMT -5
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Post by thracian08 on Aug 13, 2010 18:15:19 GMT -5
American middle class is dying....
US is spending still war $ on Iraq & Afganistan.
In the meantime students cannot even find spots for their majors, they're eliminating programs, professors are being laid off!
What's next? Unemployed ppl can't find jobs....
I tell u the USA is going so backwards...
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Aug 16, 2010 23:41:03 GMT -5
Captain, isn't it amazing that the workings of money creation is never taught in schools. What is taught as economics in schools, is simply learning the symptoms of the banking system, not the banking system itself. People don't understand why their living standards have been decreasing and will continue to decrease. All they can do, is blame Bush like some mutant looking villagers.
When I first found out of the new world order, I felt angry and betrayed. After some period I began to reflect on it. The sad reality is, since civilization began, the majority of the people/sheeple were enslaved. Go back into ancient Egypt, the masses were in the bottom and the priest+pharaoh on the top of the pyramid. Same scenario in the middle ages, monarchy and the church(priests) on the top, and the serfs in the bottom. What happened during the enlightenment period looks like a complete anomaly when compared with history. It is however not a anomaly, but a transitional period. The old order was overthrown and defeated. A New World Order is arising. The old order were the European nobility and the church(Catholic). They were defeated by Jews (freeing us, we revolted under their guidance), who are now consolidating their power and putting the sheeple back to slavery. The battle was over us, the cattle.
I know why you try to wake people up, it helps your odds of survival. But you have to accept the fact, most people are exactly as the illuminati (organized jewery) say they are, stupid animals. Most people don't understand anything other than what they are told on their television. You are talking Chinese to toskali. Sheeple don't really think, they follow the lead of others who've done the thinking for them, and so manipulate and deceive them into the world they want. Just read this thread again, and you will notice the sheeple just echo manufactured thoughts, fed to them by the jewish media and education.
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Post by captainalbania on Aug 19, 2010 22:44:33 GMT -5
Exactly.
That's true. For the most part, class divisions have been the defining feature of human society.
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the Hebrews on this one. They do deserve blame for acting as a cabal in other matters, but I think the enlightenment, renaissance, and the protestant schism was a backlash against the tight grip the catholic church had on Europe at the time.
I know, it's like talking to a goat with him on some issues. He doesn't understand that as a scientist and a thinker, he has to have an open mind and accept all information as it comes, and do some critical thinking.
As far as your opinion regarding the Hebrews, all I will say is that they have been guilty of acting in coordination in the past, and will do so in the future, sometimes acting against other groups (Palestinians come to mind). And that's fine, we are all in competition, after all.
What I don't like is their double standards. They can be too self-focused at times, and while i can understand this behavior because it has served them well in the past when they needed self-preservation while in exile, now they have their own country and it's time for the Jewish diaspora to lose their identities and become good citizens of the countries they inhabit and not double agents for Israel. If you put Israeli interests before American ones and you're an American citizen, then what you are is at best an undesirable, and at worst a traitor.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on Aug 21, 2010 18:15:42 GMT -5
Throw the Joo down the well and we'll have a big partY yea all fine and dandy but after the party....we still gonna think life is all about watching reality tv shows and humanizing animals and revolving our lives around tech novelties all paid w/credit cards as even peoples used worn out underwear is still not paid up for . somebody should just nuke us /we only have a country with a 200 year history and its people allowed it to get this way ... America is not the dream anymore America is a sad joke or we can go back to western days and shoot and steal and start all over...I will be Clint Eastwood
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Aug 21, 2010 22:27:03 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the Hebrews on this one. They do deserve blame for acting as a cabal in other matters, but I think the enlightenment, renaissance, and the protestant schism was a backlash against the tight grip the catholic church had on Europe at the time. Captain, I thought of this for a while, but there is no better theory to explain what is happening. To believe that all Asian, Black, and white leaders are working toward a common goal(and betraying their people) united and directed by some weird mystical philosophy that's self automated, is nonsense. There is a group that gains from this, there is a nerve center that is guiding them. There is always someone on the top. It can be no other. In fact the new world order cannot go on without their complicity, the jews dominate the media, banking and a good share of education. If they so chose, with a finger snap, the whole scam can be exposed and collapse. They are the working brain behind this grand project. You mean trying out a theory, testing it and see if it fails. But thats the scientific method. The professionals have done the thinking for him. The academic consensus says, blame Bush. Isn't it easier to blame things on a boogy man? I'm afraid, they have almost won the competition, if you want your descendent's to have a future, you have no choice but to resist them. To do otherwise, means accepting extinction. Dude, once you read enough, you will come to the conclusion that the so called exile was self-inflicted to get themselves planted in all important regions, take over than stirred this regions into their new world order. Remember they were expelled from most European countries repeatedly, could it be that they threatened the established power structure? The church was always after them, you think the church was fighting the wrong guys(incompetent) or had nothing better to do? There are TOO many coincidences to ignore and make excuses for. The same way most folks ignore the new world order. Politicians can and do use the term, but when we talk about it, we get laughed at. Because its just one big gigantic coincidence.
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