rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Aug 18, 2010 13:16:57 GMT -5
that website/blog is kind of fishy like ....something strange about it
|
|
|
Post by PrijesDardanian on Aug 18, 2010 13:17:51 GMT -5
Ne statistikat e vitit 2004 permenden qe jane 5% katolik shqiptar ne Maqedoni kurse ortodoks asnje. Dhe eshte fakt qe ka pasur shqiptar ortodoks ne rajonin e Ohrit dhe Manastirit...jane permendur kronologji te ndryshme nga udhetar si Edith Durham, Branfold (dicka te tille e kishte emrin), e disa tjere.
|
|
|
Post by logjiktek on Aug 18, 2010 13:27:24 GMT -5
There's one village that I know of that still have Albanian Orthodox it's called Reka. Small village though. From the research that I've done on the issue, I believe there was a considerable amount of Albanians in Mavrovo. Even looking at their traditions (ie their weddings) you would notice they are awfully similar to those of Albanians. Same traditional pants and the weddings are almost identical to the ones we have. I believe the FYROMians refer to them as "Shkreti" which is an Albanian word and even an Albanian city. My father told me there are many older ppl that still speak Albanian but the younger generation has surely assimilated. Whether it was because they felt closer to the FYROMians because of a common religion or the Muslim Albanian community distancing themselves from them, I'm not sure. Most likely a combination of the two. Many of the younger ppl live in Shkup as well. I c
In addition, I believe I read a census somewhere that claimed there were around 10,000 Albanian Orthodox around the 1900 or so. If we were to assume that figure to be correct, that number today would surely be around what, 50-80k?
It's an interesting subject nonetheless. I just wish there was more information on it!
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 19, 2010 7:17:39 GMT -5
Migjeni came from that area of Reka I believe...
|
|
PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
|
Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Aug 19, 2010 15:09:39 GMT -5
Dikur në Maqedoni numri i shqiptarëve ortodoks ishte shumë i madh. Pjesa më e madhe e ortodoksëve shqiptar jetonin në rajonin e Rekës. Ishin të njohur si gurë-gdhendësit më të mirë në gjithë Ballkanin. :)5*
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 21, 2010 4:16:44 GMT -5
Its worthless, if still interesting. One cannot expect these people to reassimilate since the education rubric is in Macedonian. There is little hope in getting them back.
And even so, most Albanians from Macedonia that I have run across are very hostile to Orthodoxy in almost every way. It makes sense since those churches and symbols are associated with the brutal repression of the early kingdom and then later 80s periods. Even I have trouble accepting the idea of Orthodoxy as a factor in the Albanian population and I am probably more surrounded by it than any Tetovar, Gostivar, Monastirli, Kumanovar, Shkupjan, etc. etc. Its been one of the most repressive and damaging faiths towards the Alb people and this is an indisputable fact. Its a faith that every non-Orthodox in this forum may show tolerance to, but deep inside all of our hearts we know very well that its just tolerance and not acceptance... that in the end we would like to see it changed to something else. Its why Konica promoted Protestant clergy to go to Korca and convert the Orthodox.
Its hopeless to expect the FYROM Albs to feel any different, same with the Kosovars and many other Albs. Even Bektashis, their closest of kin region and history wise, feel a deep and subconscious sense of discomfort at it I think.
Maybe Im wrong tho, maybe its just my own personal feelings being generalized... Maybe, but I honestly cannot picture another reality.
Ironically, in an online convo I have had with an Arberesh Sicilian Italian he told me that in the recent years revival of the "Arberesh culture" there has similarly been a return to this very faith. That the Albanian-Arberesh language revival was heavily liturgical and marked a renunciation of the Italianization that pro and preceded the Catholic "subjection".
If the Arberesh model were to be brought into these areas, perhaps it might bring the Albs back.... but that would assume that the Ilirida Albs want them... Im not sure they do.
|
|
|
Post by logjiktek on Oct 29, 2010 15:57:35 GMT -5
Its worthless, if still interesting. One cannot expect these people to reassimilate since the education rubric is in Macedonian. There is little hope in getting them back. And even so, most Albanians from Macedonia that I have run across are very hostile to Orthodoxy in almost every way. It makes sense since those churches and symbols are associated with the brutal repression of the early kingdom and then later 80s periods. Even I have trouble accepting the idea of Orthodoxy as a factor in the Albanian population and I am probably more surrounded by it than any Tetovar, Gostivar, Monastirli, Kumanovar, Shkupjan, etc. etc. Its been one of the most repressive and damaging faiths towards the Alb people and this is an indisputable fact. Its a faith that every non-Orthodox in this forum may show tolerance to, but deep inside all of our hearts we know very well that its just tolerance and not acceptance... that in the end we would like to see it changed to something else. Its why Konica promoted Protestant clergy to go to Korca and convert the Orthodox. Its hopeless to expect the FYROM Albs to feel any different, same with the Kosovars and many other Albs. Even Bektashis, their closest of kin region and history wise, feel a deep and subconscious sense of discomfort at it I think. Maybe Im wrong tho, maybe its just my own personal feelings being generalized... Maybe, but I honestly cannot picture another reality. Ironically, in an online convo I have had with an Arberesh Sicilian Italian he told me that in the recent years revival of the "Arberesh culture" there has similarly been a return to this very faith. That the Albanian-Arberesh language revival was heavily liturgical and marked a renunciation of the Italianization that pro and preceded the Catholic "subjection". If the Arberesh model were to be brought into these areas, perhaps it might bring the Albs back.... but that would assume that the Ilirida Albs want them... Im not sure they do. Fair enough. There is a strong distaste for Orthodoxy amongs tthe Albanian muslims in Macedonia. I've even heard older ppl say ignorant things like "oh Albanians that wear a cross are Serb" or things to that effect. The older mentality has equated Orthodoxy with Slavic nationality. But I think in today's day and age things can be different. I don't think the younger generation has the same mentality. I won't say they would open Albanian Orthodox with open arms, but I think they're educated enough to not make stupid remarks like "oh that guy is an Orthodox, he must be a Slav." But the issue rests on both sides. However Albanian Muslims in Macedonia have to open the dialogue and try to bridge the gap between with the small Orthodox Community. Not only would it be a good PR move to show the world hey the Albanians in Macedonia aren't religious fanatics (which some may believe) but it will only strengthen our numbers. I wished politicians would ask for more Christian Albanian heroes statues to be built (other than Skenderbeu) or ask for an Albanian Church (instead of the 100's of mosques we have.) I just wished they would address them over the media. I guess such a move could lose some support with more religious Albanian muslims as well. I'm not exactly sure what needs to be done, and it may be a lost cause like you mentioned, but all I know is what we're doing right now isn't the right track.
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 29, 2010 16:09:55 GMT -5
very good postings there ..... I know of a village in Manastir district where Orthodox slavs and Muslim albs live. when the stuff was going down in Macedonia and Manastir had some problems during the last uprising .... these Orthodox villagers put the word out to these hooligan hoodlums from Manastiri that they are not welcomed in their villages (they use to frequent the few cafe's )..they wanted to come in and intimidate some of the Albanians ...when a few dozen tried to enter in cars and motorcycles the village slavs were on the road turnoff for that village with hunting rifles and were driven away by them ..... ...turns out that most of the older slavs from that village are somehow 4th 5th cousins with the oldest Albanian families .... you take my village most of the oldest slavs families speak better Albanian then us ... and as a matter of fact most of the others speak it also but dont bother or hide it and then certain albanian families and slavic families are super deep vlams (blood brothers) but then again us albanians and slavs get along ok in general or at least till instigation is used in the news
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 29, 2010 16:49:48 GMT -5
well since you mentioned media a few possibilities is some feel good/for good propaganda (yes there is good propaganda ;D) through films.sitcom shows ,comedy sketches and the press......but then again the divide does fall into the laps of many politicians and identity maker nationalists ...so it is a tough call
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 29, 2010 17:08:35 GMT -5
here is one from the top of my head .... movie ........ written by Rexman Kramer Weiss Dreamscape in corporation with Lion Gate films filmed on location in Macedonia Piro & Liro and their lucky walnut Piro a slav macedonia Liro a alb macedonian in short & fast : piro and liro both about 9 years old ...ditch school to go see a soccer game in the big city ....they realize they have no money so they devise a scheme to both steel / borrow 800 dinars ...400 from the xhami and 400 from the Church donation box .... they do but are witnessed by one old lady who happens to be the towns chatter box that gossips and tells all ....she screams at them and they get frightened of being witnessed ,by her of all people ...they run for the hills to hide bcs they will be found out and panic ....and bcs they fear of being kicked out of town and never going to heaven ... in the meantime 2 minutes later/ the old ladies time comes and just dies before she tells anyone ....maybe a walnut falls off the tree on her head and kapoot....boys don't know that gossip witness passes away..... later in the evening towns people gather and alarm goes up these two boys are missing ....the albs gather lanterns/flashlights and do their own search the slavs the same .....they search seperatley for their own -now in between all this you add some comedy and some priest and a imam of sorts - some hard headed albanian views -slavic hard headed views-the one gypsie family wedding going on in town -
eventually the boys get separated up in the mountain bcs of wild animals (bears wolves) 3-4 days later and other mountain dangerous stuff occurs .... end result/.... the slavs find Liro (alb kid) and the Albanians find Piro (slav kid) but still some comical stuff with priest and imam -maybe they get lost and nobody cares ;D) maybe both imam and priest up a tree while a bear is at the bottom ;D the last scene is the next day ....the Slav kid sneak into the Mosque and puts the 400 dinars back in the donation box and Alb kid puts his 400 back at the church donation box ..... and oh yea plus a few extra gold Napolon gold coins in each box ..that Liro & Piro found in that cave up in the mountains ;D for interest on borrowing from God ....while albs and slavs dancing at gypsie wedding bcs they found the 2 boys while and at the same time the bride delivers twin baby boys and they name em Piro & Liro(bride was 9months pregnant) 2 days later the priest and imam strangling back from the mountains, clothes all torn up and themselves all scratched up and hungry and hanging on each other bcs of the whole ordeal ....then they set sight of a lone walnut on the ground (same walnut that kapoot the old lady) they start fighting for the lone walnut THE END / KRAJ / FUND
a 2 1/2 hour movie ....a feel good propaganda movie
|
|
|
Post by logjiktek on Oct 29, 2010 18:01:30 GMT -5
LOL, quite an imagination.
But to tell you the truth Rex, I don't give a shyt about Orthodox FYROMians. If they want to be supportive to Albs, then sure, but other than that, I don't want anything to do with them.
It's the Albanian Orthodox we need to cater our attention to.......forget the Slavic Orthodox and any Torbesh, Turk, Gypsy that sides with the Slavic Orthodox.
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 29, 2010 18:03:37 GMT -5
yes I understand ....but you have to get the Mac Orthodoxy body as a whole somewhat before you can take an arm off ....or soften them up a bit and then POW !
;D
for just the Orthodox Albs ...I would need a few more glasses of wine before I come up with something for that ...tricky one
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 29, 2010 18:39:38 GMT -5
ok ..Plan B ...for Albanian Orthodox Project Good Medicine /Good Propaganda written by Rexman Kramer Weiss style of "the prince and the pauper thingy " Dreamscape in corporation with Lion Gate films filmed on location in Macedonia real super short ....... not enough wine yet Shkurti Shkurtovski Adem Shkurti : an Albanian Mac student Goce Shkurtovski : a supposed slavic student Adem is a new student in Shkup runs into an albanian female student named Fijona (love at first sight thing) the next day Fijona see's Adem at the McDonalds eating all by himself but his hair is a bit shorter ,must of gotten a haircut she thinks ..... she runs in and just sits down where Adem is eating a Big MacEdonski she is thinking to surprise him....Fijona fastly sits across from him like she owns the joint ...she looks at Adem and she sense something is wrong ....The young man across from her is shocked and says "Izvinite" and Fijona seems confused and asks Adem why he is pretending to be slavic with the language .....the young man is confused why this pretty girl is speaking in Albanian to him ...... basically its a different person that looks identical to Adem and his name is Goce another new student in Shkup from Prilep ...the situation is explained ..she is amazed at the resemblance and explains to Goce ,Goce himself curious ....she puts the two you men in touch eventually... and they both freak out at the resemblance -you know more stuff in between ....Goce's father is a Police commander in another city Adems father is an Apple farmer in village - Adem gets stopped by police but he uses Goces Father name and is released and apologized too Goce is chased/stalked all over Shkup by a crazy lady who is screaming at him ...turns out its Adems aunt visiting Adem in Shkup (in a commical way)-
well the two boys become friends and play tricks with each others friends,teachers and visit each others town .....Adem teaches Goce how to say a few Albanian Phrases (Adem already speaks mac slav of course)....they walk the same way ,their mannerism is almost identical -But while changing roles among their opposite kinds of people they both notice the negativity of said things and made to rethink most of their ideas between slavs and albanians, including each of them being uncomfortable with said things such as politics,history and insults bcs of ignorance by each other opposite groups -
**(this is possibly where you butter up all slavs)** eventual the boys hit the beach and they notice they have the same weird birthmarks in the same area on their backs .....questions arise ..arguments and theories of love affairs maybe between their parents somewhere /....they start playing detective among their own parents and other close relatives .... -I forgot to mention ... while at the beach they both save the lives of*german tourist businessman drowning in the lake ...they both make headlines as heroes in Newspapers and on TV then even get more popular after apprehending a Greek child molester in Shkup that prayed on young kids .....ahahhahhahh ;D eventually at the end the truth comes out they are long lost relatives and both Albanian and Goce'sfather ,mother didn't know ends up Goce's Mother is Adems mothers 5th cousin and Adems father is Goce's fathers 6th cousin ....the genetics mingled perfect ...... or did I have to much wine ? Fuk it I need more wine The end / Kraj /Fund Logjiktek.....is that better aimed at Orthodox Albanians ? see ....but the main Mac slav body would not let something like that air on TV again you would take an arm off their body ....and like I said the body has to be buttered first .... we would have to make videos and give em away for free..... ;D but we would end up being called filmakers Irredentist sent from Athens to put a spike in Slavic inner relations bcs of the Macedonian name thing ;D ;D ;D hey ....that give me an idea for another movie
|
|
|
Post by ILIRI I MADH on Oct 30, 2010 2:16:26 GMT -5
I njoh pasardhesit e familjes patriotike Qirijazi qe ishin pjesmarres ne Kongresin e Manastirit dhe sot flasin vetem maqedonisht dhe jane maqedone, u asimiluan se ishin ortodoks.
E dine se kane qene shqiptare por tani jane maqedon...its fuked up.
|
|
|
Post by terroreign on Jan 13, 2011 1:07:42 GMT -5
Kisevica is south-slavic, means "Little rain", Reka is a slavic word it means river
|
|
|
Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jan 14, 2011 0:45:26 GMT -5
Those dresses are typical bulgarian dresses that u posted up...
I know a couple of orthodox albanians in manastir the grandsons of Gjergj Qiriazi who was present in the making of the albanian alphabet and the committee for the freeing of albania and they dont speak albanian but still know that they are with albanian origin, his name is Risto Qirijazovski he worked for my dad for a while.
And when we used to do Ashure (a bektashi thing) we used to deliver to their house too which is interesting.
|
|