Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 11, 2010 6:40:34 GMT -5
Language is undenieable proof of their origin You claims are nonsense like your theory of their "Greek"origin You claim that a part of Greek population learned Albanian(at the time when we had no scools and we were oppressed by the Turkish ocupation) just for the fun of it. Maybe Albanian language was a " trend" at the time for the Greeks.(lol) ;D.You are too scared to face the truth that if you chase your family tree half of their branches have Albanian(Arvanite blood) where exactly I claim greek origin for them?
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bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bato2 on Sept 11, 2010 6:47:42 GMT -5
Language is undenieable proof of their origin You claims are nonsense like your theory of their "Greek"origin You claim that a part of Greek population learned Albanian(at the time when we had no scools and we were oppressed by the Turkish ocupation) just for the fun of it. Maybe Albanian language was a " trend" at the time for the Greeks.(lol) ;D.You are too scared to face the truth that if you chase your family tree half of their branches have Albanian(Arvanite blood) where exactly I claim greek origin for them? You mythology books, perhaps
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Sept 11, 2010 7:09:28 GMT -5
I claim Greek origin for them... not that I care they can go fuk themselves as far as I am concerned... Also there's a lot of fake ones shooting their mouths off to confuse some of the fools here.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Sept 11, 2010 19:37:45 GMT -5
åëëáò
Albanians I want to present to you the Arvanitovlachs great Patriot Hellenes like the Arvanites
Αλβανοι για ελατε ... ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ !! ;D
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Sept 11, 2010 20:00:05 GMT -5
opa .....just take that flag on top left corner off ....
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Post by todhrimencuri on Sept 11, 2010 20:45:30 GMT -5
Albanians know that for many Greeks, the Arvanites are an open wound to their ideals of purity and we play on it. Thats why u have so many morons coming up and rationalizing it: "They were from Northern Epirus, which was Greek" or "They were Dorians, lost Dorians" or other BS fantasy theories that seek to mediate the fact that there were a documented Medieval group of Albanians who moved into what is today Greece and formed a significant aspect of the country's pluralism. This, matched in with the radical Greek racism that spawned in the 90s after the shockload of Albanian immigration has also spawned a level of fear and loss for the Arvanites themselves, another thing we like to pick on. For the Albanian immigrant in Greece, who forms 90% of those interested in the Arvanites since the rest of us really dont give a crap, they are a way to try and break through the racist, demeaning, xenophobic and ethnocentric core that forms modern Greek society through the fact that they are surrounded by post-communist countries.
This is what makes the Arvanites a never ending concern for Albanians. Since every time we mention it, nationalists and supremists everywhere start to lose their brains.
On the otherhand, Albanian fascination with the Arvanites is part of our general fascination with the old diaspora: the Arbanasi, the Arberesh, the Arnauts. Thats why Albanian documentaries today are filled with searches into Albanian immigrants in Ukraine, Albanian migrants in Cairo, Istanbul and Alexandria, Bukureshti etc. etc. Most of these communities have been accommodating, looking past stereotypes and racism and making something informative and entertaining. The Arvanites reacted like hysteric schizoids. (yea yea, they we can all guess what u guys will say: they had a right to, u should have seen ur people here, you people are animals... etc. etc. etc. dont feel insulted if we say that u said it already and we really dont care about hearing it anymore).
Also, as far as I can tell, and I may be wrong, modern Greek society puts a huge emphasis on its continuity and purity. If the Arvanites and the Vlachs cannot assimilate to this then they will feel like outsiders. Hence they make up one theory after another: Dorian, Pelasgian (we all know that the Pelasgian stuff on Albs did not take form in Albania but in 19th century Greece), etc. etc. are part of this desire to find a space within. They can "respect" their origins but only within this confine, Hellenism has to supersede and control and the Arvanitic origins must lay within its confines... making them rather superficial and empty. Look at bourimiri on youtube: Scanderbeg was a Greek prince ruling over Arvanites, not even an Arvanites himself... he himself makes Scanderbeg a pure Greek and his own Arvanites as the underlings... how insane is that? He made himself into an inferior! lol!
The reaction of the Arvanites to Albanians has been crazy to say the least, a sign of such immaturity that it really confounds the mind. They have reacted like a bunch of half-brained peasants with pitchforks... although I dont picture the average "Hellene" as being much more developed. Maybe there was too much "purity" if you catch my drift.
But the fact is this: to the average westerner and by and large, Albanian interest in the Arvanites is and should be grounded on the fact that these people are a subgroup of ours. They are related to the ethnic history of the Albanian people because thats where they spawned from. They are formed from our rib as much as Greek nationalists and purists may not like it. At least your modern academia is a little more open and enlightened about it.
That said, Albanians themselves would probably not want to accommodate the Arvanites even if they wanted to be. We are, by and large, very closed minded to the idea of plurality, a sign of a people who have not yet been brought into the modern western world (and you Greeks are not far from this yet either). They would be rejected and would be called "Greks" much like the Greeks from Albania have been called "Alvani".
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Post by kartadolofonos on Sept 11, 2010 20:58:48 GMT -5
Arvanites generally see themselves as Greeks not as Albanians you can do nothing with your albanism to change his Greek origin ! live with that !!
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Post by logjiktek on Sept 11, 2010 21:21:50 GMT -5
Nice post Toski. I find it funny that some Greeks claim go as far to say Arvanites speak a Greek dialect. The fact that I, an Albanian Geg from FYROM raised in the US, can understand them, to some extent, should be enough proof as to what they are. They can consider themselves Greek today. Who am I to judge?
PS: There are absolutely no plans of the UCK taking Cameria. I wish a group with such goals did exist because we should never forget. But most plans towards Cameria, as far as I know, are through legal means. There is no serious talk about extremist groups taking Cameria.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Sept 11, 2010 21:45:29 GMT -5
They are Greek... and 99% of them hate you with a passion... that part I don't understand.... can you guys tell me why?
Oh wait I know why... they are Greek...
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Post by jonleka on Sept 11, 2010 23:11:39 GMT -5
They hate us because they speak our language. We like to tell them were their root are just because it drives them fuckin crazy.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Sept 12, 2010 3:25:53 GMT -5
Albanians know that for many Greeks, the Arvanites are an open wound to their ideals of purity and we play on it. Thats why u have so many morons coming up and rationalizing it: "They were from Northern Epirus, which was Greek" or "They were Dorians, lost Dorians" or other BS fantasy theories that seek to mediate the fact that there were a documented Medieval group of Albanians who moved into what is today Greece and formed a significant aspect of the country's pluralism. This, matched in with the radical Greek racism that spawned in the 90s after the shockload of Albanian immigration has also spawned a level of fear and loss for the Arvanites themselves, another thing we like to pick on. For the Albanian immigrant in Greece, who forms 90% of those interested in the Arvanites since the rest of us really dont give a crap, they are a way to try and break through the racist, demeaning, xenophobic and ethnocentric core that forms modern Greek society through the fact that they are surrounded by post-communist countries. This is what makes the Arvanites a never ending concern for Albanians. Since every time we mention it, nationalists and supremists everywhere start to lose their brains. On the otherhand, Albanian fascination with the Arvanites is part of our general fascination with the old diaspora: the Arbanasi, the Arberesh, the Arnauts. Thats why Albanian documentaries today are filled with searches into Albanian immigrants in Ukraine, Albanian migrants in Cairo, Istanbul and Alexandria, Bukureshti etc. etc. Most of these communities have been accommodating, looking past stereotypes and racism and making something informative and entertaining. The Arvanites reacted like hysteric schizoids. (yea yea, they we can all guess what u guys will say: they had a right to, u should have seen ur people here, you people are animals... etc. etc. etc. dont feel insulted if we say that u said it already and we really dont care about hearing it anymore). Also, as far as I can tell, and I may be wrong, modern Greek society puts a huge emphasis on its continuity and purity. If the Arvanites and the Vlachs cannot assimilate to this then they will feel like outsiders. Hence they make up one theory after another: Dorian, Pelasgian (we all know that the Pelasgian stuff on Albs did not take form in Albania but in 19th century Greece), etc. etc. are part of this desire to find a space within. They can "respect" their origins but only within this confine, Hellenism has to supersede and control and the Arvanitic origins must lay within its confines... making them rather superficial and empty. Look at bourimiri on youtube: Scanderbeg was a Greek prince ruling over Arvanites, not even an Arvanites himself... he himself makes Scanderbeg a pure Greek and his own Arvanites as the underlings... how insane is that? He made himself into an inferior! lol! The reaction of the Arvanites to Albanians has been crazy to say the least, a sign of such immaturity that it really confounds the mind. They have reacted like a bunch of half-brained peasants with pitchforks... although I dont picture the average "Hellene" as being much more developed. Maybe there was too much "purity" if you catch my drift. But the fact is this: to the average westerner and by and large, Albanian interest in the Arvanites is and should be grounded on the fact that these people are a subgroup of ours. They are related to the ethnic history of the Albanian people because thats where they spawned from. They are formed from our rib as much as Greek nationalists and purists may not like it. At least your modern academia is a little more open and enlightened about it. That said, Albanians themselves would probably not want to accommodate the Arvanites even if they wanted to be. We are, by and large, very closed minded to the idea of plurality, a sign of a people who have not yet been brought into the modern western world (and you Greeks are not far from this yet either). They would be rejected and would be called "Greks" much like the Greeks from Albania have been called "Alvani". Toski's own impression that the posts he makes are the words of reasoning that the forum needs is hilarious...
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Post by kartadolofonos on Sept 12, 2010 3:28:38 GMT -5
The Albanian language today contains numerous foreign words derived from Greek,Latin,Turkish,Slavic,and Italian
what the fuck are you saying albanian??? talking about greeks stupid albanians all you are illiterate and barbarians ... You're all just a bunch of illiterate drug dealers that flood across the borders into ... Shut up, you Albanian ba**ard
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Post by emily33 on Sept 12, 2010 6:43:23 GMT -5
They are called Arvanites to distinguish them from Cretans, Epirotes, Makedones, etc What doesn't make any sense is how Albs want to lay claim on a people that don't want to have anything to do with them.
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leka
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by leka on Sept 12, 2010 7:53:40 GMT -5
Ok,Eva! You call Cretans becouse this people live in that region ,Crete,you call Epitotes becouse thise people live in epirus region . Now give me a favor and tell me where the Arvanite region is,after wich you call these people Arvanite.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Sept 12, 2010 8:02:46 GMT -5
Ok,Eva! You call Cretans becouse this people live in that region ,Crete,you call Epitotes becouse thise people live in epirus region . Now give me a favor and tell me where the Arvanite region is,after wich you call these people Arvanite. Good question ;D
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Post by emily33 on Sept 12, 2010 9:33:09 GMT -5
Same way we call Pontians 'Pontian'...because they come from the Black Sea region "pontus' and they also speak turkish and an old greek dialect...."Mikrasiates' also come from Capodoccia in Turkey etc.
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bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bato2 on Sept 12, 2010 12:44:43 GMT -5
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Post by drinus123 on Sept 12, 2010 13:28:41 GMT -5
what is an arvanite but a greeks vlach bastards? long live real albania
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Post by kartadolofonos on Sept 12, 2010 14:44:20 GMT -5
åëëáò ΑΙΜΑ ΤΙΜΗ ΧΡΥΣΗ ΑΥΓΗ ΤΑ ΓΚΙΦΣΧΑ ΣΚΙΠΤΑΡΙΑ !!! ;D
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Sept 13, 2010 19:41:14 GMT -5
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