ajax
Membrum
Posts: 145
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Post by ajax on Jan 10, 2011 14:21:01 GMT -5
Ok, my bad. Now I get it after realizing the topic.
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2011 15:08:00 GMT -5
Ballack is mostly Atlanto-Mediterranean with some minor CM traits(eyes and nose), and you can't see good at that picture but his eyes are green if you search for better one:
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Post by odel on Jan 10, 2011 15:24:02 GMT -5
Ballack is mostly Atlanto-Mediterranean with some minor CM traits(eyes and nose), and you can't see good at that picture but his eyes are green if you search for better one: He seems a bit too robust to be an Atlanto-Med to me, to me he looks like he's more CM than Atlanto-Med. CM's aren't necesarrily light. Btw, mentioning a person as an Atlanto-Med is a no-no, soon Hellenas will claim that he has Hellenic origins and all
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2011 15:47:44 GMT -5
Typical CM: Pointy chin, strong jaw, square shaped head, small straight set of eyes...
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 10, 2011 15:59:25 GMT -5
Ballack is mostly Atlanto-Mediterranean with some minor CM traits(eyes and nose), and you can't see good at that picture but his eyes are green if you search for better one: Ulf is right, he is Atlanto-Mediterranean with some minor CM traits(eyes, nose and eyebrow area). He has the Hellenic look as well.
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Post by odel on Jan 10, 2011 16:07:17 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Jan 10, 2011 16:09:08 GMT -5
Ballack is mostly Atlanto-Mediterranean with some minor CM traits(eyes and nose), and you can't see good at that picture but his eyes are green if you search for better one: Ulf is right, he is Atlanto-Mediterranean with some minor CM traits(eyes, nose and eyebrow area). He has the Hellenic look as well. Is "Hellenic" the new universal word for human-being?just wondering
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Post by terroreign on Jan 10, 2011 16:16:46 GMT -5
He has much differently shaped nose, and a box-head, do you not notice that? King Nikola is an east-Baltid type? Now I heard everything hahaha ;D Krivośanin, and why not? He ain't completely East Baltid, but certainly isn't 100% dinaric(King Nikola). As for the other guy(Sorb) he is textbook East Baltid, even total amateurs could see similarity. There are also few East Baltid in Montenegro. For example this guy has mostly East Baltid traits: You're probably confusing East and West Baltids. East Baltids: "The skin is a rather light tone, and the hair color ranges from a very light ash-blond to a medium-dark brown, all the while characterictically lacking in golden shades. The eyes are typically a light gray or blue, but dark-mixed eyes do occur." Ulf its just that anyone familiar with physical anthropology will tell you he is Dinaroid. The most definable characteristics are the nose-shape and skull shapeTypical East-Baltid is what I showed you, this is what you claimed the Sorb and King Nikola to be. They're not even west-Baltid. Let me introduce you to a Dinarid ulf: Lighter hair, lighter eyes, they're called Norics, still Dinaroid. Arsenije - Cro-magnons go hand in hand with Dinaroids, very very similar tendencies. Most of these are Norics or Dinaroids, with a Alpine admixture for sure.
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2011 17:22:12 GMT -5
1st things 1st. Dinaric component was ABSOLUTELY non-present among Slavs. The "dinaric" look which you speak of is usually because of Keltic Nordic component. However Nordic(both Corded and Keltic) is really prevailing there(Eastern Germany, Poland, especially those places in between of Belarus, Poland and Ukraine border as its homeland of Slavs, from there the Slavic expansion started), with some Baltid and other UP types. All of the Slavic skulls from period up until 13th century were predominantly Nordic, and no, Germanics didn't had anything to do with Nordicism of those early Slavs.
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2011 17:23:58 GMT -5
Its really shame that there isn't data for Slavs that came to Balkan, but southernmost regions of Austria shown that Slavs that once lived there were Corded Nordics
Lastly just take a good look how close Sorbs have lived close to Baltic region. They are probably in no way nowadays connected to Serbs except maybe only linguistic. But like other Slavs their original homeland is aforementioned region of Belarus, Poland and Ukraine border which is actually swampy area with lot of woods, so they lived pretty much isolated from others until their numbers grown so they had to move away in all directions.
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 10, 2011 18:36:37 GMT -5
Is "Hellenic" the new universal word for human-being?just wondering No, it is the word for Atlanto-Mediterraneans/East Mediterraneans wherever they live. It is not my fault that the Hellenes migrated everywhere. The Origin of the Hellenes. Their roots,related peoples and neighbours. Demetrios P. Demopoulos(Ethnologist). Archaeologists have found that Balkans inhabited once only by Mediterraneans, the skeletal materials reached the Moravian gates and Danube(the Danubians were Mediterraneans). The Mesolithic presence of the Mediterranean race (M) and its first extension (around -5000) at the northwestern peninsula of Balkans/Haimos, the Italian shores and at Ukraine. After -4500 the Mediterranean proto-Hellenes overflow towards the North and towards the west conquering the European peninsula. Before -3000 the Proto-Hellenes intergrate the occupation of the European continent, reaching at the Iberian and at the Skandinavian peninsula. The Caucasian race spread towards all directions. In the peninsula of Balkans/Haimos becomes known as the Illyrian nation. Carleton Stevens Coon:"...since from the mythical days of the Argonauts to the present, neither the peninsula of Hellas nor Ionia and the Aegean Islands have been large enough to hold the far-wandering Hellenes."carnby.altervista.org/troe/12-14.htmBlame the Scientists, not me.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 10, 2011 20:00:34 GMT -5
1st things 1st. Dinaric component was ABSOLUTELY non-present among Slavs. The "dinaric" look which you speak of is usually because of Keltic Nordic component. However Nordic(both Corded and Keltic) is really prevailing there(Eastern Germany, Poland, especially those places in between of Belarus, Poland and Ukraine border as its homeland of Slavs, from there the Slavic expansion started), with some Baltid and other UP types. All of the Slavic skulls from period up until 13th century were predominantly Nordic, and no, Germanics didn't had anything to do with Nordicism of those early Slavs. Ulf, Slavs are mutts of the Baltid Baltics and Dinaric Sarmatians. Their culture, language and late appearance in history is a testament to this fact. Serbs are a bridge if you will, between these newly formed Slavs, and the Sarmatians. The Dinaric type like Hellenas pointed out, developed in the north Caucasus/Eastern Black Sea area, and is a close relative of the Armenoid type found in South Caucasus and Anatolia, and the Iranid of Kurdistan and Northern Iran. Uh yes they actually did. The ruling class of the Rus (forefathers of the Russians, Belarus and Ukraine) were Germanic, according to most historical records. There is no doubt these early Slavs had a huge Germanic intermixture. From this influence comes the Germanic names like Olga and Igor in Eastern-Western Slavic languages, which trickled down to the others. Read this to get more informed on the subject oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=1559&chapter=90457&layout=html&Itemid=27
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Post by ulf on Jan 11, 2011 7:44:53 GMT -5
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Post by terroreign on Jan 11, 2011 17:57:13 GMT -5
were looking like these: Clearly all nordic lol Those busts are relatively recent, and a few of them have Mongoloid features. Probably Cossacks This was the status of the Slavo-evolution by 125 AD By this time Serbs were already on the Balkans (Serbinium).
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Jan 11, 2011 22:40:25 GMT -5
They look closer to Czechs than to Poles. Like Czechs they have longer faces than typical west Slavs, which is hint of German mixture. There is minor resemblance to modern Serbs, and that is to be expected. Serb tribes, Abordites and Moravians came from adjacent areas. I don't see any affinities between Ossetians and Sorbs. Keep in mind Sorbs are about 65% R1a.
Scythian remains are also Nordic, and just like Slavs they were a R1a tribe. Dinaric is a condition/adaptation to mountainous regions(Balkans, Caucacus, Pyrenees, Carpath, Alps). Scythians and Sarmatians lived in flat steppes. They are never noted as being Dinarid, where to you get this stuff?
Somehow this Germanic mixture has left no signature in haplogroups.
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 11, 2011 23:20:26 GMT -5
By this time Serbs were already on the Balkans (Serbinium). Ptolemy has two toponyms, Serbitium (Σερβίτιον) and Serbinum (Σέρβινον). I'm too lazy to take a more careful look but as far as I can see one is situated in "lower Pannonia" and the other "south of the Danube", is that right? I'm not sure if they're identical (different forms, possible corruption) but, from my basically non-existent Latin, Servitium looks like it could be connected to "servio"? In cases like this knowing the origins of the settlement is important since otherwise, you're shooting in the dark (a connection to servio could be proven completely inaccurate, for example). What's the evidence that it could be connected to a "Serb" tribe (either the later known one or one with a similar name)? Unless the smiley meant you were kidding around.
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 11, 2011 23:26:44 GMT -5
Demetrios P. Demopoulos(Ethnologist). Archaeologists have found that Balkans inhabited once only by Mediterraneans, the skeletal materials reached the Moravian gates and Danube(the Danubians were Mediterraneans). The Mesolithic presence of the Mediterranean race (M) and its first extension (around -5000) at the northwestern peninsula of Balkans/Haimos, the Italian shores and at Ukraine. After -4500 the Mediterranean proto-Hellenes overflow towards the North and towards the west conquering the European peninsula. Before -3000 the Proto-Hellenes intergrate the occupation of the European continent, reaching at the Iberian and at the Skandinavian peninsula. The Caucasian race spread towards all directions. In the peninsula of Balkans/Haimos becomes known as the Illyrian nation. Carleton Stevens Coon:"...since from the mythical days of the Argonauts to the present, neither the peninsula of Hellas nor Ionia and the Aegean Islands have been large enough to hold the far-wandering Hellenes."carnby.altervista.org/troe/12-14.htmBlame the Scientists, not me. I have no idea what the origins of the "Mediterranean" anthropological type are (are the "Mediterraneans" of e.g. North Africa of Balkan origin as well? I'm almost sure the anthropological type is found there too, according to Coon) but (1) Coon is referring to the historical and slightly earlier (i.e. going back to Mycenaean times) Greeks, not Mesolithic and Neolithic populations that could be called Greek only in the geographic sense (2) Demopoulos was a pretty bad read last time I got my hands on his book that I'm extremely reluctant to trust him even (or especially?) on matters I haven't studied myself.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 11, 2011 23:27:35 GMT -5
They look closer to Czechs than to Poles. Like Czechs they have longer faces than typical west Slavs, which is hint of German mixture. There is minor resemblance to modern Serbs, and that is to be expected. Serb tribes, Abordites and Moravians came from adjacent areas. I don't see any affinities between Ossetians and Sorbs. Keep in mind Sorbs are about 65% R1a. Ok babylon I'll indulge you - Stanislav Tilich (Sorb) Andrija Mandic (Serb) Maybe I'm just crazy, but these look like twins Here again: Mihael Balak (Sorb) Gaito Gazdanov (Ossetian) That Dinaric is just a "condition" is a theory, not fact. What is undeniable are it's similarities to Armenoid, something which is only found in and around the Caucasus. Sarmatians only lived in the flat steppes for a part of history, before there they probably lived in northern Iran. Do research on the Iranic peoples. Shows how little it really means...
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Post by terroreign on Jan 11, 2011 23:41:03 GMT -5
By this time Serbs were already on the Balkans (Serbinium). Ptolemy has two toponyms, Serbitium (Σερβίτιον) and Serbinum (Σέρβινον). I'm too lazy to take a more careful look but as far as I can see one is situated in "lower Pannonia" and the other "south of the Danube", is that right? I'm not sure if they're identical (different forms, possible corruption) but, from my basically non-existent Latin, Servitium looks like it could be connected to "servio"? In cases like this knowing the origins of the settlement is important since otherwise, you're shooting in the dark (a connection to servio could be proven completely inaccurate, for example). What's the evidence that it could be connected to a "Serb" tribe (either the later known one or one with a similar name)? Unless the smiley meant you were kidding around. I'm dead serious. Ptolemy never mentions a "Servitium", but Serbinum/Serbinon. It is deduced that it has to do with Serbs because it is historical fact that the Iazyges (Sarmatian tribe) settled Panonia during this time, and the town was settled by these people. The town was named by these Iazyges and before this period the town was not called "Serbinum". Whether or not "Serboi" were present there is not really up to question, "Sarmat" itself most likely has a connection to the word "Serb" anyway. Do you see where I'm going with this?
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 11, 2011 23:53:58 GMT -5
I checked TLG, Ptolemy mentions a Serbitium (Σερβίτιον) and a Serbinum (Σέρβινον). If you have any sources that propose emendations, cool, bring them along.
I understand your theory about the "original" Serbs from your other posts (and it's not a fringe theory as far as I know since Iranic steppe origins are considered by various scholars I've come across for the "original" Serbs), I just find the method of comparing similar-looking names that you use here to be somewhat unconvincing, at least unless accompanied by other evidence. Who mentions that the settlement was one of Iazyges?
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