donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Jan 14, 2011 13:06:23 GMT -5
why is religion so important to you? why does someone need to be a christian for you like them? don't you think this is a shallow thing to do, and more importantly it is your problem, muslim and christian albs do not seem to have a problem with it, this doesn't concern you in the least. If the Albanians maintained their Christianity I think we would have far less problems. Is that why you and the Croats have butchered each other like pigs? The inherent problem lie not in our religion but Serbian expansionist and colonial policies in the 19th and 20th centuries. PS We will never become brothers. At best, in the distant future when the bad blood is not so fresh as today, we'll be "good neighbours" but never more. People have suffered to much to forgive ,, we might have fought the Turks with Skanderbeg in the 15th centuries, but none remembers a direct forefather doing so ,, but the memory of fighting and bleeding against the Slav is a memory still fresh; my greatgrandfather fought them, my grandfather fought them, so did his uncles, cousins, all. This sense of resistance and enmity is instilled in me as well, as I was old enough to follow what was being done to my people during the last war. No countryman of mine that is trully a patriot, that has witnessed the hardships of our people, can call the Serbs "brothers" with a straight face.
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 14, 2011 13:14:59 GMT -5
I remember watching a Macedonian documentary about a particular Balkan song. When they went to Korca, a predominantly Orthodox and Bektashi city, with next to no Sunnis, the Macedonian woman mentioned the word "Serb". Albanian around her became thoroughly incensed, so much so that they seemed to almost lose it.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 14, 2011 13:17:40 GMT -5
All of Europe sympathises with the Bosnians. Only the a-holes and heartless animals of the Balkans wouldn't, or the equally ignorant numbnuts. I watched an interview of Binoche, the famous French actress, who nearly broke down talking about what the Serbs were doing there. Dozens of English, German, French, Dutch, American, Canadian docs have been made of the massacre to reveal the extent of the sympathy that Bosnians have, even though the Serbs were granted all of eastern Bosnia as a reward for mass murder. What happened to the Bosnians in eastern Bosnia was eradication. Visegrad massacre: some 3,000 Bosniaks were murdered during the violence in Višegrad and its surrounding, including some 600 women and 119 children. Zaklopaca: 83 Bosniaks were killed including 11 children and 16 elderly persons. Ahatovici: massacre committed by the Serbs of 47-50 Bosniaks from the village of Ahatovići Barimo: massacre of 26 Bosniaks in Barimo village Bijeljina: 48 Bosnians killed Zvornik massacre refers to the killing of 700-900 Bosniaks as well as ethnic cleansing of 40,000 in Zvornik. Bikavac: Bikavac fire was an atrocity perpetrated in Bikavac, near Višegrad, eastern Bosnia, on 27 June 1992 in which at least 60 Bosniak civilians, mostly women and children, were killed after the house in which they were confined was set on fire. Doboj massacre: Serbs killed 2300 Bosnians Foča massacres: 2700 Bosnians massacred Srebrenica: 8000 Bosnians massacred Glogova massacre: 65 Bosnians massacred Kravica execution: 1000-15000 Lašva Valley ethnic cleansing: 2000 Bosnians dead or missing. The list goes on and on and on. In every town or village, Bosnians were systematically cleansed and murdered. So of course we Albanians sympathize with the Bosnians. Naturally, as Czechs, Poles, and Ukrainians sympathize with each other over the massacres committed by the SS during their rein of terror. Anybody who does not, has not heart. Yeah but Bosnians are just Muslim Serbs....so you are sympathetic to Muslim Serbs. You get along with Muslim Serbs in other words. Guys, we can see clearly what's the key factor here with albanians! They just have a hatred of all things Orthodox.... Which is ironic because Skanderbeg was born Orthodox & Arbenesh are Orthodox In other words they're frustrated chumps
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Post by terroreign on Jan 14, 2011 13:20:40 GMT -5
Is that why you and the Croats have butchered each other like pigs? The inherent problem lie not in our religion but Serbian expansionist and colonial policies in the 19th and 20th centuries. You don't possess enough knowledge on the issue, to even comment let alone understand it. Let's get this straight, this is not a Alb-Srb thing, it's a KOSOVO thing. If Albanians weren't trying to take Kosovo, they're be no conflict between these people.
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 14, 2011 16:25:04 GMT -5
we might have fought the Turks with Skanderbeg in the 15th centuries, but none remembers a direct forefather doing so Hell, according to some scholars, the Ottoman Albanians didn't even remember Skanderbeg until his deeds were re-introduced to the common folk by learned writers in the second half of the 19th century. Too late for the Ottomans. ;D Albanian Balkan bothers, lets not forget that we were once brothers standing in arms and living side by side under a Christian European regional banner. ;D
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Post by terroreign on Jan 14, 2011 17:03:31 GMT -5
we might have fought the Turks with Skanderbeg in the 15th centuries, but none remembers a direct forefather doing so Hell, according to some scholars, the Ottoman Albanians didn't even remember Skanderbeg until his deeds were re-introduced to the common folk by learned writers in the second half of the 19th century. Too late for the Ottomans. ;D Its seems like they use the lore of Skanderbeg to slap a nice face onto the Ottoman-regurgitation they call culture
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Post by atdhetari on Jan 14, 2011 17:25:42 GMT -5
You get along with Muslim Serbs in other words. Guys, we can see clearly what's the key factor here with albanians! They just have a hatred of all things Orthodox.... Which is ironic because Skanderbeg was born Orthodox & Arbenesh are Orthodox In other words they're frustrated chumps everytime you open your mouth i shake my head thinking 'here we go again, get ready for utter stupidity'...and yet again you do not disappoint, you seem to base your assumptions on your own distorted interpretation of the world, and it just sounds so out of touch with reality, why don't you try to refrain from talking utter bollox next time and spare youself the embarrassement of coming off like a complete idiot, albanian have never waged any religious war, we have never had any religious tension, the religious tolerance in alb is an example to all other countries, we do not refer to each other as 'muslim' or 'christian', we do not regard religion as a basis for ethnic pertinence, albanians have never made any insinuations or expressed our displeasure at serbs or any other nationalities of their religious beliefs, neither have bulgars, bosnians or croats, the only ones infatuated with religion here are serbs and greeks, you are the only ones that bringing up religion and it borders on obssession, you guys are stuck 200 hundred years back.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 14, 2011 18:00:36 GMT -5
You get along with Muslim Serbs in other words. Guys, we can see clearly what's the key factor here with albanians! They just have a hatred of all things Orthodox.... Which is ironic because Skanderbeg was born Orthodox & Arbenesh are Orthodox In other words they're frustrated chumps everytime you open your mouth i shake my head thinking 'here we go again, get ready for utter stupidity'...and yet again you do not disappoint, you seem to base your assumptions on your own distorted interpretation of the world, and it just sounds so out of touch with reality, why don't you try to refrain from talking utter bollox next time and spare youself the embarrassement of coming off like a complete idiot, albanian have never waged any religious war, we have never had any religious tension, the religious tolerance in alb is an example to all other countries, we do not refer to each other as 'muslim' or 'christian', we do not regard religion as a basis for ethnic pertinence, albanians have never made any insinuations or expressed our displeasure at serbs or any other nationalities of their religious beliefs, neither have bulgars, bosnians or croats, the only ones infatuated with religion here are serbs and greeks, you are the only ones that bringing up religion and it borders on obssession, you guys are stuck 200 hundred years back. Religious apathy and your warped-form of history are all thanks to Enver Hodza...the man you brain-f*cked your ancestors and is indirectly responsible for the sorry state your mind's in today. The Islamic extremist Albanians in Macedonia speak to the fact that your "religious tolerance" is just a byproduct of your stalnist past... P.S. Don't speak for the Bulgars Bosnians or Croats...all of whom have religious pride and have like most humans in history killed for it. Perhaps Albanians never had religious wars...but let's be serious, Albanians didn't have any wars. The lack of Albanian wars is not because of their diplomacy & humanity...but because they never possessed power on a state/societal scale, nor the ambition or dignity to do so. Also pre-1918 except few near Montenegro and Greece, Albanians were uniformly Muslim, so religious tension really couldn't exist.
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
Posts: 840
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Post by gavrilo on Jan 14, 2011 18:07:20 GMT -5
can anyone comment in inter-religious marriages?
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 14, 2011 18:19:19 GMT -5
What about them
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
Posts: 840
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Post by gavrilo on Jan 14, 2011 18:59:31 GMT -5
statsitcs or how often do they happen?
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 14, 2011 19:09:12 GMT -5
Depends on what regions. They occurred most often in Tirana, and then in the other major cities (Durres, Shkoder, Korce, Vlora). They occurred least in the villages and towns. Most intermarriages occurred between Bektashi and Orthodox Albanians, and less so among Sunnis and Catholics. There are no official statistics on religion or intermarriage, since the communists didn't accept either. Today they are still common, and even more so with urbanization, and because its very difficult to tell an Albanian Christian name from an Albanian Muslim name (without the use of surnames) because most first names are nationalized. Arben, Ilir, Dritan, Endrit, Dhurate, all are common communist created names that have surpassed religious names generally, nevermind new western names.
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Post by mystery on Jan 14, 2011 19:37:02 GMT -5
All of Europe sympathises with the Bosnians. Only the a-holes and heartless animals of the Balkans wouldn't, or the equally ignorant numbnuts. I watched an interview of Binoche, the famous French actress, who nearly broke down talking about what the Serbs were doing there. Dozens of English, German, French, Dutch, American, Canadian docs have been made of the massacre to reveal the extent of the sympathy that Bosnians have, even though the Serbs were granted all of eastern Bosnia as a reward for mass murder. What happened to the Bosnians in eastern Bosnia was eradication. Visegrad massacre: some 3,000 Bosniaks were murdered during the violence in Višegrad and its surrounding, including some 600 women and 119 children. Zaklopaca: 83 Bosniaks were killed including 11 children and 16 elderly persons. Ahatovici: massacre committed by the Serbs of 47-50 Bosniaks from the village of Ahatovići Barimo: massacre of 26 Bosniaks in Barimo village Bijeljina: 48 Bosnians killed Zvornik massacre refers to the killing of 700-900 Bosniaks as well as ethnic cleansing of 40,000 in Zvornik. Bikavac: Bikavac fire was an atrocity perpetrated in Bikavac, near Višegrad, eastern Bosnia, on 27 June 1992 in which at least 60 Bosniak civilians, mostly women and children, were killed after the house in which they were confined was set on fire. Doboj massacre: Serbs killed 2300 Bosnians Foča massacres: 2700 Bosnians massacred Srebrenica: 8000 Bosnians massacred Glogova massacre: 65 Bosnians massacred Kravica execution: 1000-15000 Lašva Valley ethnic cleansing: 2000 Bosnians dead or missing. The list goes on and on and on. In every town or village, Bosnians were systematically cleansed and murdered. So of course we Albanians sympathize with the Bosnians. Naturally, as Czechs, Poles, and Ukrainians sympathize with each other over the massacres committed by the SS during their rein of terror. Anybody who does not, has not heart. Yeah but Bosnians are just Muslim Serbs....so you are sympathetic to Muslim Serbs. You get along with Muslim Serbs in other words. Guys, we can see clearly what's the key factor here with albanians! They just have a hatred of all things Orthodox.... Which is ironic because Skanderbeg was born Orthodox & Arbenesh are Orthodox In other words they're frustrated chumps Yes we are sympathetic to Bosnian Muslims since they didn't roll in with tanks and try to mass murder us.. Not to mention the serb has been treating the albanians like s**t during the Yugo days which led to the protests in the 80's and eventual breakup of Yugoslavia. If you weren't such c**ts I would consider you a "brother" but with the militaristic and nazi attitudes of Serbs trying to kill everything in sight relations are unrepairable.. Serbs fucked up the balkans..
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Post by drinus123 on Jan 14, 2011 20:17:36 GMT -5
this thread started with a plea for brotherhood. then at the end of the sentence muslim caused so much trouble in balkans. if albanians were christians it would all be okay. gladly donnie pointed out that it isn't religion per se rather people and serbian nationalist ambitions that have caused so much trouble in our region. albania is ahead of their time when it comes to religion. when rest of europe right now is learning how to cohabit in a religious tolerant environment. albania has achieved this peaceful co-existance hundreds of years ago. and STILL is a model country..
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Post by kijgol on Jan 14, 2011 20:21:19 GMT -5
everytime you open your mouth i shake my head thinking 'here we go again, get ready for utter stupidity'...and yet again you do not disappoint, you seem to base your assumptions on your own distorted interpretation of the world, and it just sounds so out of touch with reality, why don't you try to refrain from talking utter bollox next time and spare youself the embarrassement of coming off like a complete idiot, albanian have never waged any religious war, we have never had any religious tension, the religious tolerance in alb is an example to all other countries, we do not refer to each other as 'muslim' or 'christian', we do not regard religion as a basis for ethnic pertinence, albanians have never made any insinuations or expressed our displeasure at serbs or any other nationalities of their religious beliefs, neither have bulgars, bosnians or croats, the only ones infatuated with religion here are serbs and greeks, you are the only ones that bringing up religion and it borders on obssession, you guys are stuck 200 hundred years back. Religious apathy and your warped-form of history are all thanks to Enver Hodza...the man you brain-f*cked your ancestors and is indirectly responsible for the sorry state your mind's in today. The Islamic extremist Albanians in Macedonia speak to the fact that your "religious tolerance" is just a byproduct of your stalnist past.... Try again. This "extremism" is quite the hyperbole and a better term would be "conservative." And this "conservative" stance is more of a byproduct of the Yugoslav period where Albanian elements were suppressed and religious ones were taken up. Hoxha is not the cause of religious tolerance amongst Albanians. And even if he was, your point still holds no water.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 14, 2011 20:56:08 GMT -5
Religious apathy and your warped-form of history are all thanks to Enver Hodza...the man you brain-f*cked your ancestors and is indirectly responsible for the sorry state your mind's in today. The Islamic extremist Albanians in Macedonia speak to the fact that your "religious tolerance" is just a byproduct of your stalnist past.... Try again. This "extremism" is quite the hyperbole and a better term would be "conservative." And this "conservative" stance is more of a byproduct of the Yugoslav period where Albanian elements were suppressed and religious ones were taken up. Hoxha is not the cause of religious tolerance amongst Albanians. And even if he was, your point still holds no water. You can attribute their extremism to whatever factors you'd like to create but it still stands, there exist fanatical religious albanians. I will say this once: if Albania was 50% Christian back in the day, they would have just as many civil wars as the Yugoslavs had This is 100% One thing that Enver did good was that he united you.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Jan 14, 2011 21:02:41 GMT -5
the bosnian muslim officers came with tanks to kosova in 1981
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 14, 2011 22:14:30 GMT -5
the bosnian muslim officers came with Turk tanks to kosova in 1981 FIXT for accuracy.
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Post by drinus123 on Jan 14, 2011 22:30:53 GMT -5
they're all the same stuck-up slavs
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Post by kijgol on Jan 14, 2011 22:45:30 GMT -5
Try again. This "extremism" is quite the hyperbole and a better term would be "conservative." And this "conservative" stance is more of a byproduct of the Yugoslav period where Albanian elements were suppressed and religious ones were taken up. Hoxha is not the cause of religious tolerance amongst Albanians. And even if he was, your point still holds no water. You can attribute their extremism to whatever factors you'd like to create but it still stands, there exist fanatical religious albanians. Noone doubts that such group exist, they're small in number though. However, how is Enver Hoxha and his "stalinist regime" responsible for the creation of this group in Macedonia? If it were up to him, these people would most likely be exterminated lol. OK lol. If Albania was 50% Christian, the Europeans may have been kinder to the Albanians and given them a much larger state. I love hypotheticals! There are too many factors to take into consideration than making simplifications based on ceteris paribus logic. Albanianism is not something invented by Hoxha. How do you explain Albanians of different faiths participating in the Congress of Monastir? Naim Frasheri? I do think Hoxha has subdued religion in Albania and interreligious marriages were much common under his rule. However to give Enveri full credit for the religious tolerance is not fair IMO.
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