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Post by toskaliku on Mar 3, 2011 22:32:32 GMT -5
Im using this as case examples, not deciding my views on them. There are plenty of stastics available that show that the AKP is popular party in Turkey. That is pretty much self-evident with the last election...
People should be fickle with political parties, it is not right for people to have loyalties. If people are fickle then parties will cater to them more...
Btw, how many people have been imprisoned by the military that has dominated Turkey? Your bringing one journalist yet how many people have been targeted by the nationalists?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 3, 2011 22:40:37 GMT -5
Have you even glanced at the posts I made after that comment? The amount of rights being breached is astonishing.
One journalist? hundreds of people are being held at the moment, without a reason, a trial date, or a charge against them. I guess you aren't really aware of that is happening in Turkey at the moment.
In addition I do not condone what the military did too, they also disgust me in their hard headed narrow visioned approach.
The point is the years of arresting and intimidating men of science and journalists should be long gone, yet we are now openly having a coup planned y the government this time, to eliminate all opposition. i advise you do learn more about the issue before commenting further.
The support for the AKP for example?
Tell me Melty how long does it take for the results of a general election to be announced in most countries around the world, including, collecting counting, checking sending results to head office and announcing? Ask your pro AKP friends why it took just a few hours, perhaps 3 hours to count votes of almost 70 million or more voters...? Ask them why there were bags and bags of paper votes found floating under bridges?
I myself witnessed chaos when I voted, a man was going nuts saying I havent voted and my wife is dead, how can you tell me that we have both voted... scenes like this ALL OVER the country.
This so called support you speak of... yes it exists, but not as much as they would like the world to believe.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 4, 2011 2:44:05 GMT -5
China is advanced industrially too..so what ,they are backwards socially.Desire knows what she is talking about when she says about social problems in Turkey.... they do need help. Sorry Canaris, but this is perpetuated BS. Surely, China is not neither Korea nor Japan when it comes to communication with the outside world, but to say that they have problems is just an arbitrary comment out of ignorance. China is massively high-tech country, they have the mentality of first designing the machines, and the tools, and then use them to get the job done. And believe me, Canaris, both market-mentality-wise and tech-wise they are 100s of years ahead of ...... our .... "democratic" country. Now as far as turkey is concerned. They are better than us in every aspect. Always were.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 4, 2011 2:48:13 GMT -5
Pyrros as Canaris stated, I was talking about socially. In regards to diplomacy and freedom of speech among many other things. The Greeks have certainly shown they are standing up for their rights. In business also, Greeks are much more business minded and diplomatic, they know how to behave in each circumstance, although I am not saying that Greeks or other nations around Turkey are flawless or better, but there is a lot we can learn from our neighbours, we must rid Turkey of this "we know best attitude" In our tiny part of the world (Balkans, Middle east) where we belong culturally (or at least try to belong) you can have either censorship/limited freedoms of speech (Bulgaria/Ex-yu/Turkey) or anarchy/complete lack of respect/even direct hatred in the society (Greece). From the two i would choose the former any time of the day. Funny thing is that when my parents visited Instabul (Constantinoupoli) some 20 years ago, the only occasion they fell victims of fraud, was by a greek salesman who sold my dad fake leather.
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Post by stumpy on Mar 4, 2011 3:12:23 GMT -5
Diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks to German news magazine Der Spiegel show U.S. diplomats have doubts about Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoðan's dependability as a partner.
American diplomats distrust Erdoðan and his unrealistic views on the world, wrote Der Spiegel. He gets his information almost exclusively from newspapers with links to the Islamists and allegedly has little time for the analyses of his ministries, the diplomats believe.
The prime minister, one of the United States' most important NATO partners, has surrounded himself with "an iron ring of sycophantic [but contemptuous] advisors," writes a diplomat.
Despite his bragging, he is afraid of losing power, according to the dispatches viewed by Der Spiegel. One source is quoted as telling the Americans: "Tayyip believes in God but doesn't trust Him."
Erdoðan's advisers, and Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoðlu, are portrayed as having little understanding of politics beyond Turkey.
A high-ranking government adviser, quoted by U.S. diplomats, describes Davutoðlu as "exceptionally dangerous" and warns that he would use his Islamist influence on Erdoðan.
A cable signed by the U.S. ambassador in January 2010 says the foreign minister wants to reassert on the Balkans the influence the Ottoman empire used to exert on the region.
But the foreign minister overestimates himself and Turkey, wrote the U.S. diplomats. Turkey, sums up a cable translated into German by the magazine, "has the ambitions of Rolls Royce but the means of Rover."
Does this sound freindly ?
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 4, 2011 6:22:06 GMT -5
Today thousands of people are marching in Istanbul and Ankara to protest the unfair and illegal arrests of the journalists, this includes a high percentage of other journalists supporting their peers.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 4, 2011 6:37:15 GMT -5
LMAO!!!
I would march if my GVTM *failed* to arrest certain journalists!!!
Desire, in short, "freedom" in our 3rd world where we are living, is another word for "self-hating".
PS
i fully support cameras in the streets, surveilance, and any form of police force.
YEAH!!!
i f**king hate anarchy and other such ideas coming str8 from latin america or africa.
Those fucking animals that our peoples really are do not deserve not even one hour of "freedom". They would kill themselfs or otherwise cause other damage if given freedom. You dont give a car or an electric tool to a 4 years old.
Cause, politically, we are the equivallent of a 4 yr old...
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 4, 2011 6:51:41 GMT -5
That is one of the biggest problems facing Greece today,Pyrro. There is a lot of discord among it's people and reading your post here really points out that self loathing is the second biggest problem. I am on the outside and are eager to come there and your're there festering away... it seems to me you should have had a plan to exit... maybe the pastures are not as green as one seems to believe across the pond.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 4, 2011 6:56:37 GMT -5
Errr Pyrros, you seem to think its ok that the governments can control everybody?
You should move to the UK.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 4, 2011 7:06:46 GMT -5
Errr Pyrros, you seem to think its ok that the governments can control everybody? You should move to the UK. UK/USA are the most widespread culture in the world. How did this happen? let me tell you - WITH HARD WORK. And this is the same reason why China/Japan/Korea/Germany are kicking certain asses out there. The biggest problem is that big powers, want discipline and order for themselves, but anarchy for their rivals. That's why you could see USA or UK controlling its own ppl as you say, but at the same time accusing China/Russia/(insert your favorite rival here) of oppressing freedoms. So they tag as democratic the ones on who they can assert control and "un-democratic" all the rest! Thats the game. And that's why "democracy" in *any* non-saxon/non-germanic (even non-Asiatic) country will always mean decay and abandonment and anarchy and laziness.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 4, 2011 7:10:25 GMT -5
Visit Detroit,Gary Indianna,Flynt Michigan and countless other cities in the US and you will see what a civilization crumbling to the ground looks like.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 4, 2011 8:11:45 GMT -5
tbh Pyrros I don't think il debate with you about this, since last time I had a simple conversation you went off an an angle similar to a clown on crack.
I believe in freedom of speech and expression, without the need for complete anarchy, perhaps laissez faire anarchy would be for the best.
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 4, 2011 8:44:45 GMT -5
Hey Desire, long time no talk.
Pyrros is just fet up like so many of the rest of us here. I have never seen a country so hell bent on destroying itself as Greece is. Well, the USA is up there as well. That being said, I am preparing my return back to the US. It might be screwed up there but at least they have infrastructure and laws. Lesser of two evils at this time. Im done.....
I have heard that 600 billion Euros of Greek money are located outside of Greece from our own businessmen avoiding taxes. We are 400 billion in the hole, how do you think that happened ? I also admire our freedom to run amok when the time comes, however we often do it to the wrong ppl. The day we burn houses of these corrupt politicians and businessmen will be the day of change for Greece.
Just be happy you have patriotic citizens and i am espescially happy Greeks are returning back to Turkey. Maybe they can learn a thing or two about patriotism. Den tha deis tourko pote na kapsi to simea. Den tha prolavi na anapsi anaptira. Lypame idietera gia ta dyo palikaria pou skotothikane proxtes na apotrepsi lysteia. Pios o logos, xamenes zoes...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 4, 2011 9:18:06 GMT -5
Hey, Chalkedon. Patriotism is something that is slowly diminishing in Turkey as the Global economy is more influential and the NWO is being put into motion. I understand about your move back the US, I also am back in the UK, but I have other reasons I will probably be between the two countries from now on.
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 4, 2011 9:23:21 GMT -5
Thats my plan as well, to go back and forth betweem the two when I can of course. Dont get me wrong, I love Greece, its just killing me to see this happening. Your also right about globalization. It really is a cancer spreading.
Only thing that bothered me about the UK is there are so many Paki's ! Aside from that, Id like to go there to visit for a week.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 4, 2011 12:14:11 GMT -5
Must be harder between the US and Greece, with that journey time, for me its only 3.5 hours to Ankara and now finally and thankfully they have got the direct flights back. 3 times a week London to Ankara ... whereas before you either had to change at Istanbul or in Germany, it was stressful.
I cant speak about the UK as a whole in regards to asians, but there are certain parts of London where you are likely to find mainly asian: Indian/Pakistani/Bengali people. Other parts where you dont see hardly any....
Just for u i think... don't go to Mile End or Hounslow, or anywhere near Heathrow airport.
Greece will settle when they learn to live with less money, thats why people don't riot in Turkey, they accept that the rich are rich and the poor are poor. The poor all look after each other though, neighbours give one another food and stuff like that, we don't have any real social security in Turkey too. Its a big mess....yet everyone just sits and smiles, happy to be alive!!
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