Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 4, 2011 21:37:23 GMT -5
Or not?
What Turks believe of this statement of Prof. Fikret Adanır that "the Greeks are not Greeks"?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 5, 2011 7:17:23 GMT -5
He doesn't say Greeks are not Greek. He says, Greece is a mixture of Slav, Albanian, GREEK, etc..who ALL believe they are direct descendants of the ancients.
Which i totally agree with. The whole idea of a nation state, made the Greeks bypass their Byzantine history and connect directly to the Ancients.. I wonder why? :/
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Hellenas
Amicus
Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 432
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Post by Hellenas on Jun 5, 2011 8:08:37 GMT -5
That's Turkish propaganda as well, as the Greeks are not a mixture of different ethnicities, at least most of them, but 90% Greeks and the rest 10% descend from Arvanite Greeks(not Albanians), Vlah Greeks(Dacian/Thracian/Romanians), Slav-speaking Balkanians(not Baltics or Russian "Slavs") and Turk-speaking Greeks/moslem Greeks.
Scientists(Anthropologists, Geneticists) and Ethnologists believe that most of Greeks are direct descendants of the ancients, not just the Greeks.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 5, 2011 9:16:30 GMT -5
That's bullsh*t! Slavs and Vlachs were small in number in Greece and were at the north only.The rest of Greece were made of various Greek related people.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 5, 2011 10:34:51 GMT -5
That's Turkish propaganda as well, as the Greeks are not a mixture of different ethnicities, at least most of them, but 90% Greeks and the rest 10% descend from Arvanite Greeks(not Albanians), Vlah Greeks(Dacian/Thracian/Romanians), Slav-speaking Balkanians(not Baltics or Russian "Slavs") and Turk-speaking Greeks/moslem Greeks. Scientists(Anthropologists, Geneticists) and Ethnologists believe that most of Greeks are direct descendants of the ancients, not just the Greeks. You said 90% Greeks. Can you show proof of this. Because after mixing during the Roman (Byzantine) empire, where many people took on the Greek language and therefore became Greek, the mixing had begun, and then during the Ottoman rule, there was a massive mix of people in Greece. The Christians of Turkey all went to Greece... these Christians include Slavs and Albs and other.. How can the Greeks have a direct connection to Ancient Greeks after so many years of the Roman Empire and then the Ottoman empire. Its not very likely.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 5, 2011 11:04:54 GMT -5
How can the population of Greece change by so much?
Many Anatolians were Hellenized under Greek rule of Anatolia.Then in the 1920's,Greece received over 1 million Anatolian Greeks(mostly Constantinopolean,Smyrnian,Cappdocian and Pontic Anatolian Greeks).So the foreign mixture was mostly Anatolian.The funny thing is that the Cappodican Greeks spoke Turkish.The deciding factor in choosing people to be sent to Greece was religion : Greek Orthodox Christianity.The Anatolians Greeks have always been a minority in Greece,along with the other non-Greeks.
Parts of northern Greece has long been non-Greek(Albanian,Bulgarian),but that's about it.Another small non-Greek population there was the Gypsies.
The only massive mix in Greece was the variety of Greek groups,who descends from the ancient Greeks.
We also have to remember that Greece lost close to half a million Greeks to Turkey that came with the stupid exchange of populations.Those included in that swap to Turkey were the Pomaks,Gypsies and Turks.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 5, 2011 14:12:55 GMT -5
The whole of mainland Europe is mixed, some more than others. Of course that Greeks have assimilated other groups of peoples that lived on Greek soil. To what extent that is mixture is is hard to say, and maybe not so relevant.
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Post by uz on Jun 5, 2011 14:31:55 GMT -5
Where is the line, that defines someones nationality ?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 5, 2011 15:18:05 GMT -5
Anittas that is absolutely correct. Uz, there is no line..
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 5, 2011 19:24:26 GMT -5
The whole of mainland Europe is mixed, some more than others. Of course that Greeks have assimilated other groups of peoples that lived on Greek soil. To what extent that is mixture is is hard to say, and maybe not so relevant. It's relevant in this thread.And most Greeks of Greece are descended from the ancient Greeks. And yes,most or all ethnic groups have blood from other ethnic groups.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 5, 2011 20:45:21 GMT -5
Yeah, it's relevant to this thread, but I meant to say that the daily man has other concerns than to worry on how much of these people and those people belong to his nation's genetic pool. That question is best treated in an objective matter and from a scientific perspective. If you have someone like Hellas, who identifies his worth and his identity by linking it to the purity of his heritage and is unable and unwilling to question the meteodology in researching on the subject; and the merit that any such findings would bring, you are left with an intellectually inferior individual that is not receptive to reasonble arguments.
As Desire said, the Turkish guy argued that apart from the Greek component, other people contributed to their genetic pool and in nation-building. There was no argument to deny the presence of the ancient Greeks in their gene pool.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 6, 2011 3:15:21 GMT -5
i think we can all agree that, the more one learns about the constructs of modern nationalities, the more one figures out that its all secondary to human compassion & environmental care
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 5:16:05 GMT -5
Those that are obsessed with purity are the ones who have the most "dirty" minds. No one race/ethnicity or any other factor is better than another. Individual actions are what make u special, not your "so called history" you can of course use it to help develop future plans, but don't have it as a basis of being special. It is nothing. Forget who "they were" forget who "you are" think about what you "will become"
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 6, 2011 10:32:49 GMT -5
DY,as usual being a hypocrite.You can see her go far in trying to show that Turkics are an originally European group.And in the past praising the looks of Iranian Turkmens with strong European features.....
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 10:34:22 GMT -5
Listen you little piece of sh.it, I am leaving the above post up as a reminder that if you lie about me again in the way you just tried to, I will delete every single one of your posts in this forum. Now pi,ss Off.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 6, 2011 10:43:34 GMT -5
As Desire said, the Turkish guy argued that apart from the Greek component, other people contributed to their genetic pool and in nation-building. There was no argument to deny the presence of the ancient Greeks in their gene pool. I think you can say that about every country formed on the majority ethnic group,but fact is that the non-Greek component is a minority. This Turk professor has some nerve to bring that up when the Turks consider themselves the descendants of.....oh you know it all ;D and when most of them aren't.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 6, 2011 10:45:07 GMT -5
Listen you little piece of sh.it, I am leaving the above post up as a reminder that if you lie about me again in the way you just tried to, I will delete every single one of your posts in this forum. Now pi,ss Off. I'm not lying.I said that based on my memories on your old posts in the old forum. The one I'm referring to is on what you said on this picture of this Iranian Turkmen girl with a bob haircut.You said a very beautiful Turkmen girl. I remember that.And the girl has strong European features. You even posted a picture of your male cousin at his wedding.He was tanned and you downplayed his darkness by saying that he got a tan when he was on holiday.You downplay all the non-whiteness of Turks and praise those with European features. You even made one thread in the old forum on the Kurds,doing a see! The Turks are white and the Kurds have hookier noses and bushier brows. I remember all those! Don't try to be a smart arse and edit your posts.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 10:45:30 GMT -5
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 10:47:11 GMT -5
You are lying. I never ever said that Turks are originally a European group. I didn't praise Iranian Turkmens "European looks either" that was your twisted interpretation. Now seriously F.uck off.
One more single post about me and EVERYthing u post shall be deleted.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 6, 2011 11:10:50 GMT -5
The Byzantine Greeks referred to themselves as Romioi. Seeing themselves as a continuation and heirs of the Romans. Rigas Feraios did try to help re-establish a state closer to the ancient Greek philosophies, however, and unfortunately the Greeks based their new national identity using religion. A Christian was a Greek in their eyes. Thats why many non ethnic Greeks, but Christians, today think they are "ethnically Greek" and their ancestors are the Hellenes.
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