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Post by coris on May 23, 2011 2:24:23 GMT -5
Might be a little late to answer but DY, there is a very large albanian community in izmir. The last or the current mayor was even of Albanian origin. I agree with you when it comes to bursa and its bulgarian community but there is also a albanian community living there. The albanians were one of the first to immigrate to turkey so this can explain why it is thoughtthat albanian minority is not significant. Many albanians came around 1912, excluding the kosovars, and some have been assimilated. However, this doesn't change the fact that albanian genes are still present in western anatolia.I know i am no expert but you cannot claim to know better than me when it comes turks in general since you say that you only lived 5 years in turkey. I have to agree with odel, the blond and light features in izmir and bursa are because of balkanian influence.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 23, 2011 10:07:37 GMT -5
Thanks, nobody here said that it may not be influenced by Balkan genes, however, as I said earlier, the Albanians call themselves Arnavut and NOT yugoslav Gocmeni, it is far more likely that the balkan genes came from the Yeni Ceri's who as far as I am aware are of Serbian ancestry. Also if you try to deny the huge Greek population in Izmir for hundreds of years before the word Albanian even existed, I htink you will have your answer. However, if it feels good to just "imagine" that most of Izmir is of Albanian ancestry go for it. you don't have a single bit of proof about it though. It would be better of you talked about the Albanian villages where even though they have been in Anatolia hundreds of years did not assimilate, still speak Albanian, and follow the Albanian culture, rather than try and claim Izmir. I mean ... LOL im really sorry but,,, Izmir has some of the best looking people there, however the same cannot be said for Albanians generally throughout the world. There are always exceptions, but especially the men are quite unattractive. Izmir is a mixture of Greek, Yoruk, Bulgarian and ex Yugoslavian probably with a tiny bit of Albanian. Since Albanians are hardly ever blonde anyway... most of them are brown haired lol
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Post by coris on May 23, 2011 14:01:51 GMT -5
Look desire, I am seriously doubting your ability to read and understand... Unlike you, I do not "imagine" outrages things like original redhead turks with green eyes. I never claimed izmir is albanian or mostly albanian, I simply said that there is a large albanian community. Moreover, bulgarians were not settled in izmir either, as I said they live around bursa (some of my friends are bulgarians from bursa). By the way bosnains and albanians were admitted to the janissary system so you cannot say the janissaries were of serbian ancestry. Many bosnian and albanian janissaries were favoured because of their links to bektashism.
PS: Yeah I know, albanians are unattractive whereas zazas are damn hot right?
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 23, 2011 15:27:09 GMT -5
Look desire, I am seriously doubting your ability to read and understand... Unlike you, I do not "imagine" outrages things like original redhead turks with green eyes. I never claimed izmir is albanian or mostly albanian, I simply said that there is a large albanian community. Moreover, bulgarians were not settled in izmir either, as I said they live around bursa (some of my friends are bulgarians from bursa). By the way bosnains and albanians were admitted to the janissary system so you cannot say the janissaries were of serbian ancestry. Many bosnian and albanian janissaries were favoured because of their links to bektashism. PS: Yeah I know, albanians are unattractive whereas zazas are damn hot right? Imagine? I have posted to to this very thread around 4/5 different sources stating the colour of the original Turks has been said to be red hair and green eyes. You however haven't posted anything at all that can be used to counter my sources. Also unless you give me a source about it being Bosnian and Albanian and not Serbian in the Jannisaries... I am not going to bother to argue with you. Nobody said ZaZa's are hot...
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Post by hellboy87 on May 24, 2011 9:24:32 GMT -5
Thanks, nobody here said that it may not be influenced by Balkan genes, however, as I said earlier, the Albanians call themselves Arnavut and NOT yugoslav Gocmeni, it is far more likely that the balkan genes came from the Yeni Ceri's who as far as I am aware are of Serbian ancestry. Jannisaries? I think the genetic impact of the Jannisaries is small.And the Jannisaries were made up of men of many ethnicities.Greeks.Albanians.Bosniaks(Serbo-Croats).Bulgarians.Even Anatolian Armenians.I did read about some Sultan saying the Bosnians were the best ones because they were the most abled,most pious and most handsome.But the Ottomans also did tend to recruit mostly from a particular place or ethnic group during a certain periods. Also if you try to deny the huge Greek population in Izmir for hundreds of years before the word Albanian even existed, I htink you will have your answer. However, if it feels good to just "imagine" that most of Izmir is of Albanian ancestry go for it. you don't have a single bit of proof about it though. It would be better of you talked about the Albanian villages where even though they have been in Anatolia hundreds of years did not assimilate, still speak Albanian, and follow the Albanian culture, rather than try and claim Izmir. I mean ... LOL im really sorry but,,, Izmir has some of the best looking people there, however the same cannot be said for Albanians generally throughout the world. There are always exceptions, but especially the men are quite unattractive. Izmir is a mixture of Greek, Yoruk, Bulgarian and ex Yugoslavian probably with a tiny bit of Albanian. Since Albanians are hardly ever blonde anyway... most of them are brown haired lol Izmir was largely populated by Gavurs.After the Greeks left,many muhacirs were resettled there.So whatever Greek genetic legacy that is left is found among the Anatolian Turks there.Also,why would blondism come from the Smyrnian Greeks? You do realize that Anatolian Greeks are largely Hellenized Anatolians,right? I've read before that among the larger ethnic groups in Izmir today are the Albanians. There was even one Turkish-Canadian girl of Albanian ancestry who posted here awhile back for a short time who said there are many Albanians in Izmir and many still speak Albanian too.So I doubt it that they're a tiny bit there. Izmir has some of the best looking people? Well,probably because they take pride in their appearance AAAAND....... because Izmir is largely populated by EUROPEANS. Albanians on average are definitely much better looking than the average Anatolian Turk.Hell! Most attractive people in Turkey are muhacirs anyway. Since Albanians are hardly ever blonde anyway... most of them are brown haired lol I think that is the case for all of the Balkans and Mediterranean Europe.Blondes are a minority in those regions. However,most of the blondes in Turkey are found among the Bosniaks and Albanians. And yes,there are Albanian villages in Turkey.In fact,there are many villages in Turkey that are made up mostly of a particular ethnic group.
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Post by hellboy87 on May 24, 2011 9:29:20 GMT -5
Imagine? I have posted to to this very thread around 4/5 different sources stating the colour of the original Turks has been said to be red hair and green eyes. You however haven't posted anything at all that can be used to counter my sources. So the Kyrgyz are the original Turkics? The first ever Turkic group where other Turkic ethnicities branched off?
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Post by odel on May 24, 2011 12:55:16 GMT -5
Could you provide a source that says that the Serbs were preffered as Jannisaries? I would say I've read enough concerning the Ottomans and the Balkans and I've never heard that one before. From what I've read, Albanians and Bosnians were the preffered ones and judging by which ethnicity that was the most sucessful it does support that Albanians were the most represented.
The Tosk Albanians alone had more Grand Viziers than any other ethnicity in the Balkans not to include Albanians as a whole and those who came into such positions were mostly former Janissaries or the decendants of Jannisaries. The Bosnians and the Greeks follow that, the Serbs however aren't that very nicely represented, it seems like the Croats even are better represented among the Grand Viziers.
And even though Albanians and Bosnians were mostly Muslim having one of your sons becoming a Janissary was very important as it meant that your son could come into a high position and maybe improve the families life or invest some in the old country. Therefore, even though they were Muslims, the Devshirme system came to include Muslim Albanians and Bosnians too and not just Christians. An example of the Balkan boys helping their own people is Mehmet Pasha Sokolic (Grand Vizier) who reinstated the Patriarche of Peje and you also have Skanderbeg who first rose up through the devshirme system to first become a cavalry commander and then he became a governor, he helped his own people thoroughly.
And generally Albanians were quite popular as soldiers and quite renown for their physical progidity and their ability as warriors, I've never read anything bad concerning the Albanians and their handsomeness actually it has always been the opposite of bad- quite good actually.
This is what a Turkish writer had to say for example:
Inside are the castle warden with 700 garrison troops - bareheaded and barefooted and doughty warriors all! They are ghazis, engaged in the jihad, and battling day and night with the infidels of Kotor. Their uniforms, however, are quite ridiculous. Because it is a coastal region and the climate is mild, these commando warriors grow as tall as plane trees, their heads get as big as Adana squashes, their upper arms are as thick as squashes bursting with seeds, and their chests are swollen like imperial crocks which resound when struck.
Despite their huge bodies, they are very robust and agile, and spring from cliff to cliff with their weapons like Baghdad gazelles. And in accordance with the hadith, "The best garment is short," their garments are so light, it is as though there were [no?] garments on those huge bodies. On their feet they wear tight-fitting rawhide sandals. And in accordance with the expression, Baldir durada ("It is honey when it is still"), they leave their calves uncovered, and do not even wear breeches but just a pair of fustian trousers attached to the waist.
Most do not know what a shirt is, but instead wear a ridiculous short and narrow felt jacket which leaves their chests and shoulder blades uncovered. Funny-looking also is the tiny headpiece - the size of a cup, to cover their kettle-sized heads! - which is tied at the sides and fixed with string around their necks. God knows what a makeshift look those little black skullcaps have atop those huge head. They are a band of ghazi horsemen who go out raiding and putting the fear of God into the Albanian infidels of Kotor, Kelmendi and Montenegro.
Albanians were also well represented as statesmen generally and plenty of them had positions as governors in different states, Pashas, military commanders and the Jannisaries weren't the only Balkan soldiers the Ottomans had.
Anyways, while there were few Jannisaries they usually accumulated a lot of wealth and went into higher positions. Upper class people were quite good at spreading their genes in older times. I still don't believe that the impact the Janissaries had in Anatolia genetically were as big as some say, it's mostly exaggerated. Balkan immigrants however did have a rather large impact.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 24, 2011 14:01:24 GMT -5
Odel, you haven't provided a single source for anything you posted. However, this is about Jannisaries and not higher administrative positions. Even then from what I know, it was Turks, and then Jews and Greeks, then Albanians. The initial Jannisaries weren't muslims, many of the boys were converted from christians and raised to be Muslims. It was only later that many families, including non Muslims wanted their sons to be taken into the Jannisaries as it was a role of prestige. Albanians were only good as foot soldiers as far as I am aware, they took orders from the Turks. I haven't heard anything about the Albanians skills as soldiers, do you have a link about it? By the way the writing you posted from a "Turkish writer" was in fact by Evliya Celebi a very famous traveller of the Ottoman empire. He also wrote this about Albanians: Professions. There are fishermen, soldiers, merchants who trade on land and sea, handicraftsmen, scholars and ulema, and vintners for the 23,000 vineyards. This place is the home of brave and diligent Albanian ghazis, who, like Ferhad, earn their living by hard toil. (9) There are no other nationalities in this city. [The language] They all speak Albanian, which is like no other tongue. In origin, the Albanians were one of the Arab tribes of Quraysh in Mecca. That is why there are some Arabic words still in use among them. When these Albanian tribesmen emerged from the mountains of Shkodra and Vlora, they mingled with the Italians and Franks, and so, during the caliphate of 'Omar (10) produced a language between Arabic and Frankish This is your source, which you failed to post here: www.albanianhistory.net/texts16-18/AH1662.htmlgood day.
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Post by coris on May 24, 2011 15:02:25 GMT -5
Southern albania was one of the major recuiting regions of ottomans: "Many of the best fighters in the sultan's elite guard, the janissaries, were conscripted as young boys from Christian Albanian families, and high-ranking Ottoman officials often had Albanian bodyguards."(Raymond Zickel and Walter R. Iwaskiw (1994). "Albania: A Country Study ("Local Albanian Leaders in the Early 19th Century") And since you say that you haven't heard about their skill, muhammed ali and his albanians conquered egypt and fought againts turks, english and french. Lord Byron said that albanians were fearsome warrior in his memoirs. A word on beauty, don't want to brag but albanians and bosniaks are probably the most beautiful and handsome people living in turkey
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 24, 2011 16:06:20 GMT -5
So as I said before the Jannisaries were mainly non muslim at the start. As that source states. One of the major recruiting grounds is what is stated. One of is the keyword. The majority of Jannisaries were NON muslims, and since the Albanians were Bektashi... err? anyone getting my drift? The Jannisaries, by David Nicolle, Osprey publishing is a good source about this subject, yet never points out that Albanians were a majority or the best. also: by giving existing Christian military classes a continuing role while offering the possibility of further advancement if they converted to Islam, the Ottomans absorbed much of the Byzantine Greek and Slav elites, who in turn soon had a clear influence on the development of Ottoman military traditions.Nicolle and Hook (1995), p. 4. Initially they favored Greeks (who formed the largest part of the first units) and Albanians (who besides supplied with gendarmes), usually selecting about one boy from forty houses, but the numbers could be changed to correspond with the need for soldiers. Boys aged 14-18 were preferred, though ages 8-20 could be taken. As the Turks expanded their borders, the devshirmeh was extended to also include Bulgarians, Romanians, Armenians and Serbs at first, but later even Poles, Ukrainians and southern Russians.www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Janissary#Recruitment.2C_training_and_statusYou Albanians need to stop recycling Lord Byrons quote, hasn't anybody else said anything about your fighting skills? LOL im sorry but next to Turks and their history of being warrior like and soldiers... Albanians are quite a big FAIL. Bosniaks are quite beautiful and Handsome, as are many other groups,, but unfortunately Albanians are not a part of them. Especially from the Albanians I have met in London and Turkey... sorry Talking about the Balkans, I can assure you that Romanians, Bulgarians,Montenegrin's, Croatian's and Serbians are all very good looking people.. better than the Albanians I have personally met. I find the most beautiful people in Turkey to differ, I can't say which are the most beautiful, but which are not is very clear
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Post by hellboy87 on May 24, 2011 21:12:27 GMT -5
Jesus!
Who gives a sh*t if the Albanians were good soldiers or not.Albanians are not the Turkics who the ancient Chinese described as uncooked barbarians.Fact of the matter is,they were a useful group to the Ottomans.Over two dozen Pashas were Albanians and a lot of Ottoman soldiers were Albanians.
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Post by coris on May 25, 2011 3:16:24 GMT -5
Desier you fail at your simple logic here. Yes, the janissaries were all bektashi, so why the hell would they not accept bektashi albanians to their ranks? Maybe early on, the devsirme system played an important role in the conscription but ottoman history does not end in 17th century, after a point, muslim albanians and bosniaks were clear majority. And frankly I don't care who you think are not beautiful, for me, albanians and bosniaks are the most beautiful but if you disagree go on. Personally I don't think turkmens zazas and kurds are attractive but it is just me.
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Post by odel on May 25, 2011 4:07:54 GMT -5
I don't need to post any source for everything I write, and I have backed up a lot of the things I have said previously with not just sources but also logical thinking. You failed for example to give me a source for this: You have made some really unrealistic claims which you haven't backed up with anything that is supported by anyone other than you, you haven't made any arguements either, which is probably because you're not smart enough to do so. The sources you used even use documents that aren't that very reliable even. Also, many of the Janissaries came into high positions, almost all of the Grand Viziers from the Balkans and elsewhere had been Janissaries at first, exceptions are those who were part of "Dynasties" such as the Köprölu family that was an Albanian family that provided the empire with quite a few Viziers. Also yes, the Janissaries were at the start Christian boys but that's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that later muslim Albanians and Bosnians came aswell, this started at the same time as the Albanians started to convert to Islam fully. And btw, the Albanians were the most represented as Grand Viziers, the Bosnians and then the Greeks coming after us. The Albanians were pretty much represented in every part of the empire, as soldiers, as generals and commanders and in administrative positions. I don't really know why you brought up the Serbs as they really weren't such a great part of the empire, you do seem to have Serbophilia though. Albanians were highly esteemed as warriors, this among everyone that knew of us. In the book of Edith Durham "Through the Land of the Serbs" there's two Serbs that are speaking about how they will enlist as mercenaries, they mention an Arab tribe in the middle of Africa that was more fierce than the Albanians even. There's several quotes like that even. Those Arabs they mentioned probably were the Berbers. There's a lot of other sayings like that. And I don't need to give you links that say "Albanians were good as soldiers", the representation of the Albanians as soldiers in the Ottoman empire and elsewhere is enough. It's not that I couldn't find them but it's just ridiculous of you to ask for a source for everything when you can't prove me wrong. Yes, I know. Lol, and that's obviously not correct Dy, there's a difference between using him as a source on how the Albanians looked and quoting him on his opinion about the origins of the Albanians and who we "mixed" with and what our language is like, his conclusions are of course entirely wrong. He had seen the Albanians, therefore he knew how they looked and described some of them, however he didn't know s**t about the Albanians and he's nothing to rely on in context. One right doesn't make two rights you know, his first statement is reliable while the other isn't. I didn't fail to post it, I just disregarded posting it as I'm obviously not changing anything in it or anything. It's not necessary to provide the source for every claim one makes, I actually like to back my claims with arguements using logic too rather than just quoting someone without making any convincing arguement, I'll use sources where they are useful. Yes, the Janissaries were all pretty much Christian at the start, however, so were also the Albanians, most of the conversion happened in the 17th century, the same time as the devhsirme system came to include Muslims too, besides the Janissaries were only one part of the soldiery brought from the Balkans, they were mostly kids brought up to become elite soldiers. The Albanians were quite represented both before and after the inclusion of Muslim boys. As for your comment concerning our looks, I've never heard those comments concerning Albanians, other than from Serbs and such on the Internet. But in Norway, Albanians have a reputation for being good looking, physically large and there's the "don't mess with Albanians" saying. Once for example as we were starting at school again as Summerbreak was over, I had grown quite a bit over the summer, my friends noticed that and they mentioned that "it's because you're Albanian" one of them was a Turk btw Concerning our looks: myexcellentadventures.blogspot.com/2008/09/first-impressions-of-prishtina.htmlSeems to be the impression of others too that we're good looking
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 25, 2011 9:33:43 GMT -5
Desier you fail at your simple logic here. Yes, the janissaries were all bektashi, so why the hell would they not accept bektashi albanians to their ranks? Maybe early on, the devsirme system played an important role in the conscription but ottoman history does not end in 17th century, after a point, muslim albanians and bosniaks were clear majority. And frankly I don't care who you think are not beautiful, for me, albanians and bosniaks are the most beautiful but if you disagree go on. Personally I don't think turkmens zazas and kurds are attractive but it is just me. I said at the beginning, the Jannisaeries were formed in the 1380's they didn't accept non Christians until the 17th century... So until then, it was NON bektashi's. In fact as far as I know Sokullu Mehmet Pasa was a Serb. Did I ask what you find attractive? thanks for sharing your views though, I was thinking along a more international basis. Not one single person I know has ever said... "oh, Albanians are handsome aren't they?" LOL in fact most Albanians don't even say they are from Albania and try to pretend to be Italian or German in London LOL then again the ones here are the most uneducated type I don't know how the other types of Albanians are..
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 25, 2011 9:48:08 GMT -5
Logical thinking - LMAO. nice joke. The source you use: some albanian random website, and you dare to even try and criticize my valid and reliable sources? Logical thinking did you say..pff All the Serbs I have met have been really nice people, however I don't have Serbophillia. What an extreme conclusion you came to by my post. Albanians were never a big deal in the Ottomans, they were perhaps of importance once we got past the Turks, Greeks, and Jewish people.... they aren't significantly special I don't know where you get this dream from. Apart from one or two individuals the rest were just standard Ottomans. Edith Durham, I was expecting that one. LOL I swear do all Albanians come with a preset list of those who said anything slightly positive about them. Well thats it, your list is done... I think one other Turkish person said you were also fighting like lions. I have seen those quotes a hundred times... sorry. 3 people praised your amazing history.? LOL Its not that you can't find em, its that its very rare of them to exist. You choose do you which you will agree with .... what do you think this is the pick n mix counter LMAO wheres the logic? I fail to see it, you took some information from a passage, and then posted it here, while the rest of the passage you claim is completely incorrect and then you back it up by saying you used Logic. LOL LOL, in Norway Albanians are known to be good looking? The same cannot be said for the UK, and Australia. Perhaps all the ugly ones got sent here. Anyway, I don't care about the way Albanians are perceived.. There were Albanians in the Jannisaries, BUT NOT MORE THAN any other race.
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Post by coris on May 25, 2011 11:09:35 GMT -5
Now you are being ridiculous desire. I don't know what you have against albanians but it is clearly not objective. Please go on giving sokullu mehmet paşa as an example. Odel has given you numerous albanians who attained higher positions including the perhaps most influential family in the ottoman empire, the köprülü family. Saying albanians were not the majority in the janissary system is just outrageous, you can go on check those records if they have any. Again, for the beauty, you clearly are not the person to judge the looks of albanians and saying that they are ugly etc. There are opinions people share about the beautiness of races and ask any turk, day and night they will tell you albanians are beautiful. As for hiding their identity and all that stuff, well its their shame to hide it. My family has been living in turkey for 99 years and no-one in my family hides our albanian identity, like most of albanians in turkey.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 25, 2011 11:50:53 GMT -5
Don't start whining like a little girl Coris. Odel hasn't given any numbers, nor stats I did say there were one or two exceptions, apart from that Albanians are nothing important within the Ottoman Empire. Stop kidding yourself!
If you have the records of them being the most ... give them... if not just stop babbling like an old women.
Well your family can live where ever they wish to live, it doesn't concern me, I didn't say the Arnavuts hide their identity did i? I said the Albanians in London do it.
Learn to read.
LOL ask any Turk if Albanians are beautiful haha... I think you forget that I am Turkish also, I have family and friends not just in Turkey, but around the whole world. Not a single one of them will mention the Albanians as being beautiful, they will however talk about Crimes, people trafficking, drugs and general disorder. The same way they are depicted in most movies too. This is because of the stereotype they helped to build.
However this isn't about Albanians and how they are perceived, this is about the Ottomans, I don't take the Logic nor the opinion of two Albanians, I need stats and facts and records and reviews to analyse. then i can form my own opinion about the amount of Albanians in Turkey, in the Jannisarries etc .. hope u get my drift little boy.
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Post by odel on May 25, 2011 12:59:31 GMT -5
Which random Albanian website? The site that Robert Elsie put up? Btw, I have provided nice arguements, you haven't, everything that doesn't fit your ideas of the world aren't necessarily stupid or illogical, it's rather the opposite judging by your niveau You seem to have nothing but good things to say about the Serbs but nothing positive concerning Albanians, that's why I'm saying that you're a Serbophile. Albanians were quite important in the Ottoman empire, the fact that you're just brushing the Albanians of as "one or two important individuals" shows some of your bias and/or your ignorance concerning this topic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Albanian_Grand_Vizierscountrystudies.us/albania/18.htmLol, I'm not going to list up every person that has spoken positively about the Albanians, however if you'd bother to check that up you'll see that the majority of the people that went to Albania had positive things to say concerning the Albanians, especially concerning their appearance and some qualities such as for example chivalry, a very strong sense of honour, skills as warriors and etc. Anyways, Edith Durham was only quoting some Serbs she had a chit-chat with, she wasn't the one speaking of us, she wrote it, someone else had said it. Let's take someone else with a positive statement concerning the Albanians "At last I asked him on what he based his judgment, “Well” was the answer ” look at my servant” The man turned out to be a characteristic Albanian - tall, handsome, and doubtless as honest and brave as his eyes were frank and fearless, while his whole bearing conveyed that suggestion of mingled courtesy and independence which makes the peculiar charm of his race" -Henry Noel Brailsford. kroraina.com/knigi/en/hb/hb_8_1.html"The historian in search of ironies and anomalies could find no stranger contrast than this of Turks and Albanians—the one, an Asiatic race of Mongol blood and the most meagre intellectual endowment, yet possessed, thanks to Arabian influence, of a fairly humane and elaborate code of laws; the other, a European people of Aryan stock, boasting in part a certain nominal Christianity, gifted, quick, and intelligent, and in contact through the ages with Greek and Italian civilisations, yet content in the twentieth century with a set of institutions which have remained unaltered since the first days of the Aryan migration." -Henry Noel Brailsford. www.albanianhistory.net/texts20_1/AH1903.html"The Albanians are divided into several distinct races, each presenting marked features of difference from the other and occupying separate districts. Those of Upper Albania are called Ghegs, and inhabit that portion of the country called Ghegueria, which extends from the frontiers of Bosnia and Montenegro to Berat. These men are broad-chested, tall, and robust, have regular features, and a proud, manly, independent mien. Their personal attractions are not a little enhanced by their rich and picturesque national costume—a pair of cloth gaiters; an embroidered jacket with open sleeves; a double-breasted waistcoat; the Greek fustanella (white calico kilt), surmounted by a cloth skirt opened in front; a kemer, or leather belt, decorated with silver ornaments, and holding a pistol, yataghan, and other arms of fine workmanship. The whole costume is richly worked with gold thread. On the head is worn a fez, wider at the top than round the head, and ornamented with a long tassel. The Tosks are tall and well built, and extremely agile in all their movements ; their features are regular and intelligent, but like most Albanians they have a fierce, cruel, and sometimes cunning cast of countenance, and a swagger in their gait, by which they can easily be distinguished from the other races, even when divested of their national costume. They are of a warlike and ferocious disposition, yet they have noble qualities which atone in some measure for their ferocity and produce a very mixed impression of the national character. They are a constant source of dread to strangers, but objects of implicit confidence and trust to those who have gained their friendship and earned their gratitude. In bravery, trustworthiness, and honour, the Ghegs bear the palm. No Gheg will scruple to “take to the road” if he is short of money and has nothing better to do. If any man he may meet on the high road disregards his command, “Des dour” (stand still), he thinks nothing of cutting his throat or settling him with a pistol-shot: but if a Gheg has once tasted your bread and salt or owes you a debt of gratitude or is employed in your service, all his terrible qualities vanish and he becomes the most devoted, attached, and faithful of friends and servants. Generally speaking, the Ghegs are abstemious and not much addicted to the vices of Asiatics. Women are respected by them and seldom exposed to the attacks of brigands or libertines." -Fanny Janet Blunt. albanianhistory.net/texts19/AH1878_3.htmlThis time I provided the sources as you're so butthurt about it. Improve your sentence, it's hardly intelligible. Anyways, you're an idiot if you don't see that using his description of the Albanians which he had seen himself and using his thoughts on the Albanian language which he hadn't studied, he didn't know and which he had no competance whatsoever to make any factual statement about. It's reliable to use the part where he describes the Albanians he had seen, it's not reliable to use the part where he comes with his own theory concerning the Albanian language, which btw are completely wrong according to every actual linguist who has studied our language. One right doesn't make two rights and you can pick what's probable and what isn't from a writer, agreeing with one thing doesn't mean you have to agree with everything. God you're stupid. Again, your sentence is unintelligible, has Hellenas infected you? And at least he has an excuse for his unintelligible sentences, he hasn't lived in Britain Anyways, read what I wrote above. Yes, the Albanians are known as a good looking people. There is a minimal amount of Albanians in the UK and in Australia (especially the Albanian diaspora in Australia is small, it's not noticeable). I'd imagine people in the Uk and Australia would have a harder time defining "good looking", they're not confronted with good looking people among their own populations even, the Norwegians however like all the Scandinavians are a good looking bunch Lol, first you comment on how you perceive the Albanians and also how they are perceived generally in Turkey, the Uk and Australia. Then when I come with something that counters your claims you just tell me that you don't care about it, this shows how you're not willing to learn or to change opinion as you have a predisposed bias. First you're telling me that Albanians are like this and that, then when I use a link that says different, you just disregard that. To conclude: You're a joke. Race? You meant ethnicity. Anyways, the Albanians were very represented among the Janissaries because we were favoured because of our traits. We were more represented than most, perhaps even the most, the Albanians were quite represented in higher positions aswell.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on May 25, 2011 13:26:28 GMT -5
"You seem to have nothing but good things to say about the Serbs but nothing positive concerning Albanians, that's why I'm saying that you're a Serbophile."
LOL, I wouldn't say she is a Serbophile, she knows she has been screwed over and over in this thread and has now resorted to insulting.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 25, 2011 13:32:30 GMT -5
EriTop... lol if I wanted to insult I would, I haven't insulted anyone really so p.iss off OK in regards to Albanian Grand Viziers there are about 40 of them... however one or two are doubted as to whether they are Greek, Serbian or Albanian. There are 141 TURKISH Grand Viziers. You can see how many Greek, Serbian, Bosnian, Croat, Italian etc there are in the list below. From your favourite Disney resource... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_Grand_ViziersMust be easier for u to read wiki eh? Thanks for the amazing source " Albanianhistory.net" LOL However ok lets be fair.. here are what your own sources say about how the Albanians Look: have regular features - their features are regular and intelligent - fierce, cruel, and sometimes cunning cast of countenance - ferocious disposition - So they just look regular nothing special,, ok moving onto their skills as soldiers??.... errr.. I think i missed that bit where is it again? From what I read, they sound like a bunch of toerags, who are mean and murderous. hahaha ... Blablabla.... like I said... pick and mix. I don't care anyway, that is YOUR own source, just because you have nothing better. My sentences are quite intelligable to native speakers, sorry, I didn't realise you were a freshy, i'll try to make them more simple next time There are over 300 000 Albanians in the UK.. they are selling hotdogs and prostitutes at the west end of london. However the 550 000 in Germany are easy to notice too LOL but not for their good looks. However you keep kidding yourself that Albanians are known to be good looking... sure, fine,, it doesn't bother me... I have come across mainly unattractive triangle heads, but hey... thats just me I already said, i couldn't give a toss about Albanians. They really don't interest me. I was only interested in the claims that they were the most populous ethnic group in the Jannisaries, which clearly they were not as you couldn't prove what you said.
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