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Post by uz on Jun 14, 2011 17:45:48 GMT -5
Ok, so what have the Serbs done for him then? Maybe the only one in the world that could love him was a Serb. You know, like in that Disney cartoon... the fair and the beast. What makes you think you must be of nationality to speak on behalf of that nationility?
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Post by Anittas on Jun 14, 2011 19:06:28 GMT -5
Ok, so what have the Serbs done for him then? Maybe the only one in the world that could love him was a Serb. You know, like in that Disney cartoon... the fair and the beast. What makes you think you must be of nationality to speak on behalf of that nationility? Good point, except that he does a little more than just speaking for Serbs.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jun 14, 2011 20:50:56 GMT -5
Ulf, this is yet another interesting post. Though, it would be best if we address history in context rather than to jump to conclusions about the ethnic belonging of the old Bulgars.
The findings regarding the 4-5% of Mongoloid type features in modern day Bulgarians are probably accurate, who knows exactly what the number is.. the sample space is rather small. I mean 126 people "sampled" in a population of millions is minuscule.
Anyway, this most probably holds no relevance to the old Bulgars. There is no actual evidence of them having Asiatic features. In all the old Bulgar (and even Hun) graves that have been excavated, all the skeletons found have reflected Europead type features. The general misconception started in the late 1800's, or possibly the early 1900's.. I don't remember exactly when it was, but an anthropologist located a grave that was initially thought to have belonged to a Kutrigur or Utigur Hun (Kutrigurs and Utigurs being Bulgar tribes). The grave turned up Asiatic features, however, it was later discovered that the grave was much more recent and it actually belonged to a Mongol warrior.
The results of this "survey" are most probably due to a much more recent occurrence, know as the Mongol invasion of Europe. It has been recorded that in the mid 1200's AD, the Mongols devastated Bulgaria.. so much so that Bulgaria became a vassal to the Mongols, and even went as far as installing a Mongol ruler for a brief period of time. Anyhow, Bulgaria was raided by Mongols continuously between 1200AD and 1300AD.
It is most plausible that these findings are due to the Mongol invasions in the late middle ages, and if we were to look at a larger sample space it is very likely that some percentage of Mongoloid type features would be found in many other countries across Europe.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jun 14, 2011 21:04:01 GMT -5
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Post by uz on Jun 14, 2011 21:44:17 GMT -5
How far in the Balkans was he able to go?
From what I understood he never defeated the Serbs.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 15, 2011 2:10:02 GMT -5
Ulf, eastern slavs (Russians Ukrainians etc...) do have a higher ratio of eastern asian genes because of mongols ruling over them for 200 years. It wasn't uncommon for mongol men having russian slavic women.....l believe the infusion of mongols into the Russian mass had reduced the Nordic racial type of Russians to about 10%.
BuLgari are not indo-europeans!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 15, 2011 2:40:31 GMT -5
I like Ulf. He is the kind of Serb who is ages ahead off any other German-Saxon-Latin, etc.... lol ulf is half german pyrros. Not exactly half. OTOH, there are certain things i like about Germans, like the fact that those dudes had the guts to go against the whole world.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 15, 2011 2:43:31 GMT -5
Ulf, eastern slavs (Russians Ukrainians etc...) do have a higher ratio of eastern asian genes because of mongols ruling over them for 200 years. It wasn't uncommon for mongol men having russian slavic women.....l believe the infusion of mongols into the Russian mass had reduced the Nordic racial type of Russians to about 10%. BuLgari are not indo-europeans! AHA, interesting point. So Novi says that the mongo blood in Ukranians/Russians was an non-original attribute acquired through the years of Mongo occupation, while the mongo blood in Bulgarians was an inherent element since the beginning right?
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Post by ulf on Jun 15, 2011 8:52:08 GMT -5
lol ulf is half german pyrros. Not exactly half. OTOH, there are certain things i like about Germans, like the fact that those dudes had the guts to go against the whole world. Krivosanin is right
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Post by ulf on Jun 15, 2011 8:54:14 GMT -5
Ulf, eastern slavs (Russians Ukrainians etc...) do have a higher ratio of eastern asian genes because of mongols ruling over them for 200 years. It wasn't uncommon for mongol men having russian slavic women.....l believe the infusion of mongols into the Russian mass had reduced the Nordic racial type of Russians to about 10%. BuLgari are not indo-europeans! AHA, interesting point. So Novi says that the mongo blood in Ukranians/Russians was an non-original attribute acquired through the years of Mongo occupation, while the mongo blood in Bulgarians was an inherent element since the beginning right? No, I said only Ukrainians. Russians don't have it. Check the site(if you can read Russian text): bulgar-portal.ru/Also, pay attention. Modern Mongols from Mongolia have: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_C3_%28Y-DNA%29 as common haplogroup, where as haplogroup Q is common in
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 15, 2011 10:14:14 GMT -5
What strikes me in the 2nd map is that instead of Finland (which might have more probabilities of being relative to the mongos) we see some pink color in norway and iceland.... PS i guess the pink spot in central europe must be around Austria-Hungary?
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Post by ulf on Jun 15, 2011 11:18:08 GMT -5
Finland indeed has majority(more then 50%) of one Mongolo-Turkic Y-DNA haplogroup(called N). The people in Norway and Iceland carrying Q haplogroup probably has to do with aboriginal non-Caucasoid people of Northern Europe and Northern Asia.
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Post by Ceanglid Desdemon on Jun 16, 2011 12:13:50 GMT -5
thou gealus becusse Mongul get mor womyn than whaite man mit tynee minni peawea
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 16, 2011 19:06:32 GMT -5
Ulf, that Q map must be updated to show a pink spot for the BuLgari, people like Ruseche will be celebrating. For Ruseche it will be covering his hometown of Ruse in NE BuLgarska ;D
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Jun 24, 2011 21:46:29 GMT -5
So the link between Mongolic Bulgars and the modern day Bulgarians indeed exist(even though I though they weren't Mongolic but some Iranian group), but just very small sample(just 3.97% or 4 person out of 126 people who were tested there) I thought the same thing, but then I chekced out Serbian haplogroups. Serbs have 1.7% Q, Montenegrins have 2% Q. BUT Serbs also have 3.3% N, Montenegrins have 1.5% N. So Serbs have a total 5% Asiatic y-haplogroup, Montenegrins 3.5%.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 29, 2011 3:28:31 GMT -5
^but then you wake up and realize that serbs & montenegrins are the same exact people
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jul 5, 2011 14:56:46 GMT -5
We belong here, not else where, that's for sure. These 4% can't be denied too. , And it's already known that these ppl came from areas which were not our own. Names, speech titels, appearence, habits and beliefs of steppe bulgars have turanoid if (semi-mongol) origin. No one can't simply deny that.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 5, 2011 15:14:01 GMT -5
There has never been any archaeological evidence to support Asiatic features of the old Bulgars.
All graves of old Bulgars that have been excavated have shown Europiad features.
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Post by ulf on Jul 9, 2011 12:25:13 GMT -5
So the link between Mongolic Bulgars and the modern day Bulgarians indeed exist(even though I though they weren't Mongolic but some Iranian group), but just very small sample(just 3.97% or 4 person out of 126 people who were tested there) I thought the same thing, but then I chekced out Serbian haplogroups. Serbs have 1.7% Q, Montenegrins have 2% Q. BUT Serbs also have 3.3% N, Montenegrins have 1.5% N. So Serbs have a total 5% Asiatic y-haplogroup, Montenegrins 3.5%. I never said its impossible for Serbs and Monties not to have it. Though I am not sure of the exact % of Q & N among us. Also it matters which subclade of N haplogroup is present among Serbs and Montenegrins.
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Post by ulf on Jul 9, 2011 12:27:27 GMT -5
^but then you wake up and realize that serbs & montenegrins are the same exact people Genetically they are very close. You can't expect people from, for example Subotica and Bar, to be exactly same
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