Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 4, 2011 7:43:10 GMT -5
It was an open organization formed to fight the enemies of free Macedonia.. namely Turks, Serbs, and Greeks. In several occasions Serbs have fought against Serbs, but never in Makedonia. ;D
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 4, 2011 8:18:46 GMT -5
To tell you the truth, I've never read of any ethnic Serb participants in the IMRO.. I mean, the IMRO fought against the Serbs.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 4, 2011 8:39:32 GMT -5
To tell you the truth, I've never read of any ethnic Serb participants in the IMRO.. I mean, the IMRO fought against the Serbs. There were some Serbs who collaborated with the Nazis. BTW, when you will finally go to Corfu (or just step in Makedonia), you will change your views about makedonia.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 4, 2011 9:51:53 GMT -5
Perhaps, though I never claimed anything about Macedonia at present.. aside from the fact that their media is filled with anti-Bulgarian notions.
I've simply shown you that pretty much the whole free world (95%+ of all sources) has concurred that not long ago today's ethnic Macedonians identified as ethnic Bulgarians.
I've also shown you, using an author whom you respect (ie. Sir Steven Runciman), that the old Bulgars had established a firm footing in Macedonia since the middle ages.
So I don't really see what would change, the past is in the past and it is written and recorded.
PS: That 5% or so of sources that don't directly verify the past Bulgarian identity of Macedonians, DO NOT call them Serbs.. those sources talk about them being some supposedly "unique" Slav ethnic group that is different from both Serbs and Bulgars. However, most of these clearly state that this "unique" Slav element had significantly closer affinities to Bulgaria than it ever did to Serbia.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 4, 2011 9:53:35 GMT -5
Be that as it may, I've never read of any ethnic Serbs being participants in the IMRO.
Furthermore, the IMRO was established in the late 1800's, which is long before the Nazis came about.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 4, 2011 10:01:03 GMT -5
Be that as it may, I've never read of any ethnic Serbs being participants in the IMRO. Furthermore, the IMRO was established in the late 1800's, which is long before the Nazis came about. Same time the Cetnik movement was formed in Prilep. Quite a coincidence!
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 4, 2011 10:06:11 GMT -5
Great. And your point is?
There was a Serb minority in Macedonia, that's no secret and we've never denied this. But you're trying to make conclusions based on a small minority while we're talking about the OVERALL population, the population of Macedonia in general..
A hand full of isolated pockets that had ethnic Serbs living there are not significant in representing the country and the identity of it's people as a whole.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 4, 2011 10:16:26 GMT -5
Great. And your point is? There was a Serb minority in Macedonia, that's no secret and we've never denied this. But you're trying to make conclusions based on a small minority while we're talking about the OVERALL population, the population of Macedonia in general.. A hand full of isolated pockets that had ethnic Serbs living there are not significant in representing the country and the identity of it's people as a whole. Point is that pro-Serb feelings were always stronger and this will not change. If this has not changed during the last 20 years, it will never happen. You could concentrate on something else tho. Helping your fellow Serbs restore Slavic influence over Kosovo. You said you are Slavs as well right? PS Do you think that the VARDARSKA and BITOLJSKA DIVIZIJE who participated in WWI were formed by members of any ...... minority??? One of the four divisions of the 1st army (Serbs had 3 armies) was from Makedonia.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 4, 2011 10:27:07 GMT -5
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 4, 2011 12:36:13 GMT -5
False. Pro-Serb feelings as a whole only started to come about AFTER 1945, not before.
I already told you that I support independent Kosovo. For one, I think that independent Kosovo is beneficial for the whole Balkan region.. even for Serbia itself. And second, Serbia has only its own politics to blame for losing authority of that region.
As for collaboration with Serbia at this level, well this is some serious stuff. For me personally, Serbia needs to step up and own up to the past. I’d be pretty happy if they open their “archives” where they’ve stored all those initiatives pertaining to Macedonia and all those “hidden” collaborations between the Black Hand and the Serbian government. I’d also like to see all their plans and designs for Macedonia and its de-Bulgarization from the late 1800’s until 1991. That would be a step in the right direction.
As for the Slav thing.. Slavic unity, and Slavic brotherhood and what not, clearly that doesn’t work. If it did, then the Serbs wouldn’t have done what they did in Macedonia. Ironically enough, it’s only a handful of Serbs that are responsible most of whom are not alive today. So realistically, recognizing that their past political regimes were wrong and unjust would also be a very good step forward.
And this is yet again where it goes sour.
Anyway, actions have consequences and Serbia has no one to blame but itself. And realistically, the same s**t happened to Bulgaria.. the main difference was that we actually were minding our own business. Whereas what has happened to Serbia is directly related to the decisions their government made and the course of action they chose.
And today, it seems many Serbs blame their neighbours for things that their own government initiated.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 5, 2011 2:16:31 GMT -5
Would you support independence for the 1,000,000 + of turks in Bulgaria? Certain centers of power would do so. If that was about to happen would you seek support from fellow orthodox or slavic neighboring nations?
Would you support independence of Republika Srubska (in which according to certain Bulgarians live the only true Serbs), by the same standards that you claim follow on Kosovo?
In which way does kosovo independence favor stability in the balkans? And why the Serbs in Bosnia and the turks in Bulgaria are an exception?
It seems to me that your main aim is makedonia, and that you could sacrifice even your mom's ass to the devil, in order to get it.
I do not expect any serious answers! I am asking to test your potential levels of hypocrisy !
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 5, 2011 2:19:19 GMT -5
Aziz, btw do you have any estimation of how many snakes like you are there in Mongol parts of Bulgaria?
i have met MANY Bulgarians, and have never met such a broken repetitive, muted, selectively idiotic robot such as yourself.
you suck man.
PS
I see in the case of VARDAR Divizija you hid your ugly tatar head in your tatar ass, you fucking tatar.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 5, 2011 2:39:50 GMT -5
Ivo didn't attack you personally. Not even once. I think it is time for you to get banned.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 5, 2011 3:43:01 GMT -5
But i didn't attack Aziz the person. I attacked Aziz the ultra-hypocrite-snake-tatar-mongol side of him only ;D
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jul 5, 2011 12:21:12 GMT -5
No. They are Bulgarian citizens and simply need to be better integrated into Bulgarian society.
Probably not. It appears our alliances are in conflict.
As for Republika Srpska, I agree that that's where the true land of Serbs is. Not in Kosovo, not in Macedonia. If you want RS to become an independent state, then that's something Serbia's government would need to address. Currently, Serbia has no friends that I know of that would support such a thing.. and they have other, more pressing issues to deal with at the moment.
All of Europe is headed toward this whole joint EU thing, and that's really the only path for Serbia to get in. Though, initially, personally I wasn't a big supporter of the EU and Bulgaria's accession to it.. at present, I'm undecided. There are good things and bad things.
The Serbs in Bosnia are not really a Bulgarian concern much like the Turks in Bulgaria are not a Serbian concern. Everyone has their priorities. Do your thing and stop crying about it. But if while you're doing your thing you step on that which is rightfully mine, I'll put you down like the dog that you are.
My "main aim" is to be sure that the truth is out in the open and accessible. That's it.
LOL.
Why don't you come back when you have some sources that discuss the overall population of Macedonia and not some selective minority. We've already posted a whole bunch, feel free to read through them again. I told you before, if you want to compare source for source I'd be more than happy to oblige.
As for the rest of the colourful commentary, all I have to say is.. keep posting my friend, keep 'em posts coming. Show us how far you're willing to go.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 5, 2011 12:55:34 GMT -5
Gjerasim Qiriazi? This name/surname is as much albanian as Gjergi Kastrioti and Konstantin Kristoforidhi... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gjerasim_QiriaziWeid names in his family...Sevasti, Paraskevi, Gjergj...
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 5, 2011 13:09:06 GMT -5
according to some dna results of mine I have distant relatives from Albania with such "strange" names...for example Kristoforidhi.....and some others...but they sound all Greek. Fortunately no connections to Mehmetajs and Mustafajs. Oust.
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rex362
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Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
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Post by rex362 on Jul 5, 2011 14:08:23 GMT -5
names can be different but blood is blood
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 6, 2011 3:42:35 GMT -5
Tatar, you whole text was a display of hypocrisy : you said you explicitly SUPPORT independent Kosovo, but NOT independent RS, (and also you said indirectly that serbs from RS are the only true Serbs, but due to their actions, they do not deserve autonomy right??) your hypocrisy floods out of your pants, my friend, you simply have no hypocrite rival here!
Now, about WWI, when 2 out of the total 12 Serbian divisions come from Makedonia, this is not a minority.
And this is not a copy/paste contest. Reality differs A LOT from what the internet presents. And worse of all, reality (unlike internet) comes back and bites the naughty tatars in their gay ass....
PS
Anyways, you proved a totally unreliable, and hysterically biased person.
Thank God for Bulgaria, there are not many like you.
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 6, 2011 5:56:50 GMT -5
Tatar, you whole text was a display of hypocrisy : you said you explicitly SUPPORT independent Kosovo, but NOT independent RS, (and also you said indirectly that serbs from RS are the only true Serbs, but due to their actions, they do not deserve autonomy right??) your hypocrisy floods out of your pants, my friend, you simply have no hypocrite rival here! Now, about WWI, when 2 out of the total 12 Serbian divisions come from Makedonia, this is not a minority. And this is not a copy/paste contest. Reality differs A LOT from what the internet presents. And worse of all, reality (unlike internet) comes back and bites the naughty tatars in their gay ass.... PS Anyways, you proved a totally unreliable, and hysterically biased person. Thank God for Bulgaria, there are not many like you. Pyrros are you really from Janinë?
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