|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 22, 2011 9:21:07 GMT -5
Shqipni, but where before 1079?
I know foreigners gave the Albanians an Illyrian history, more specifically, THE AUSTRO-HUNGARIANS, why, simply to prevent Serbia from gaining access to the Adriatic. It was the Austro-Hungarians who shyte their dacks and scrambled to recognise an Albanian state in 1912, the first time ever. 99 years old this Albania, what are you going to do for its 100th birthday?
PS Albanian/Illyrian history is proven very wrong ;D
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Jul 22, 2011 9:57:55 GMT -5
It is high treason for a Greek or Serb to acknowledge Albanians as descendants of the Illyrians It keeps their conception of a Quasi Genetic unity of each of their races together -Fact-
|
|
|
Post by uz on Jul 22, 2011 11:48:08 GMT -5
I say False.
Anybody else ?
|
|
|
Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 22, 2011 14:59:38 GMT -5
True.
|
|
|
Post by uz on Jul 22, 2011 15:00:45 GMT -5
I admit, I cheated. I looked at the answer-key. Just to elaborate, there is more to the "Serbo-greek connection" than the "common" hate we have towards Albs. Do Albanians side with Bosnians or Croats by default?
|
|
|
Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 22, 2011 15:59:19 GMT -5
^Personally, neither. I couldn't care less.
|
|
|
Post by uz on Jul 22, 2011 16:18:07 GMT -5
I guess it's all personal, I agree.
If everything were to be looked at the personal level, I think conflict amongst ourselves wouldn't exist. We would have already learned from our pasts.
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 24, 2011 5:03:17 GMT -5
Rex, isn't it high treason for Albanians to admit they arn't Illyrians?
Don't you first of all find it odd that Albanians didn't even know what an illyrian was prior to 1912 when the Austro-Hungarian empire forced this error onto you. If you go back 300 years before 1912, it was the Balkan Slavs from Croatia and Bosnia championing an Illyrian ancestry (genetics backs it tho).
|
|
|
Post by odel on Jul 24, 2011 8:47:02 GMT -5
Rex, isn't it high treason for Albanians to admit they arn't Illyrians? Don't you first of all find it odd that Albanians didn't even know what an illyrian was prior to 1912 when the Austro-Hungarian empire forced this error onto you. If you go back 300 years before 1912, it was the Balkan Slavs from Croatia and Bosnia championing an Illyrian ancestry (genetics backs it tho). The Greeks didn't think of themselves as Hellenes and descendants of the ancient Greeks before some German scholars told them they were so, that doesn't mean the modern Greeks aren't descendants of the ancient Greeks. Highly uneducated groups of people are hardly comparable to today. Funnily enough, you mention South Slavs "championing" an Illyrian ancestry, which is ironically also an Austro-Hungarian "invention". The theory of Albanians being the descendants of the Illyrians was first proposed in 1774 by the Swedish historian Johann Erich Thunmann, before any South Slavic Illyrianism movement ever had started. That's not to say that this makes us more likely Illyrians; this is not some "we were Illyrians first" contest as you make it to be. It doesn't; you're welcome to prove it though.
|
|
|
Post by uz on Jul 24, 2011 8:48:51 GMT -5
This ^ alone is proof enough, that it's bullshit.
|
|
|
Post by odel on Jul 24, 2011 8:53:26 GMT -5
This ^ alone is proof enough, that it's bulls**t. Why's that?
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 24, 2011 23:37:08 GMT -5
Odel, well some are postulating that Slavs from Croatia and Bosnia are closest to Illyrians than Albanians......Wilkes comes to mind?
O.k, so your telling me it was also Austrians who told Croats of their Illyrian ancestry? Fine, but still, Albanians prior to 1912 never knew what an Illyrian is. Now, all that about Greeks doesn't apply to the Albanians because:
- Albanians have no recorded history of Illyrians - There is no cultural similarities - Language is completely different (Satem language division) - Genetically incompatible - Illyrians were known to be tall and lighter skinned than compared to small dark skinned modern Shqiptars
and the list goes on and on ;D
|
|
|
Post by Shqipni13 on Jul 25, 2011 2:01:38 GMT -5
^ You have people like Wilkes on one hand and Malcolm and Edwin Jaucqes on the other. Who is right and who is wrong? I think you guys are more scared of the truth than we are.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 25, 2011 7:24:45 GMT -5
Albanians got assimilated here in Greece by the 100,000s... Very easily. Its the fate of the non-europeans to be assimilated by superior cultures. You just got assimilated yesterday by Serbs, whats worse? Idiot, 1st i don't PRETEND to be a SERB. I just FULLY support Serbs. Those two are two totally different beasts, if you can follow me.... Albs here, and i am not talking about old Arvanites, who still keep some of their albanian language, i am talking about the new comers. By hearing them you cannot tell modern athenian from a albanian who's been living here for 10 years or more. They don't want anything to do with albania.. however, ARE THEY FOR REAL?? or do it only for short-term profit and interest?? Of course the second... AND IDIOT, THAT IS THE REASON WHY YOUR PATHETIC BRAIN SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER put the word PYRROS and any other BS that passes by in the same sentence. Understood that IDIOT???
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 25, 2011 7:31:39 GMT -5
Rex, isn't it high treason for Albanians to admit they arn't Illyrians? Don't you first of all find it odd that Albanians didn't even know what an illyrian was prior to 1912 when the Austro-Hungarian empire forced this error onto you. If you go back 300 years before 1912, it was the Balkan Slavs from Croatia and Bosnia championing an Illyrian ancestry (genetics backs it tho). There are no Illyrians bro. IF THERE IS ONLY A HAZY DEFINITION OF smth that exists : "a greek", (since we have a living language but not a living strong and vivid recent folklor civilization), how can there be a definition of smth that we dont know how it looked like? Illyrian language ? WITH ITS FIVE KNOWN WORDS? ? GIVE US A FU CKING BREAK.... nothing illyrian about the albaninos... Lack of memories from their part, reflected on the lack of sufficient naming for their name-places shows clearly that albs came after the slavs. BUT, the same goes for Greeks as well. WE SIMPLY CAME AFTER THE SLAVS. This is evident and proven even in the ..... very few pieces saved today of rural-peasant oral tradition from all over greece. And this greek-serb friendship is the big obstacle to the Serb politics to deploy as they should. Serbs are too gay to harm their "only brothers" and thus, bury deep in the ground, their BIGGEST argument in Kosovo, and elsewhere. That's why the english masters of deceptions chose to "culture" greko-serbian friendship.
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Jul 25, 2011 10:05:58 GMT -5
^so basically its safe to say that Slav is the master race then ?
stfu .....HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAH how creative you are
|
|
|
Post by Anittas on Jul 25, 2011 13:46:40 GMT -5
Odel, well some are postulating that Slavs from Croatia and Bosnia are closest to Illyrians than Albanians......Wilkes comes to mind? O.k, so your telling me it was also Austrians who told Croats of their Illyrian ancestry? Fine, but still, Albanians prior to 1912 never knew what an Illyrian is. Now, all that about Greeks doesn't apply to the Albanians because: - Albanians have no recorded history of Illyrians - There is no cultural similarities - Language is completely different (Satem language division) - Genetically incompatible - Illyrians were known to be tall and lighter skinned than compared to small dark skinned modern Shqiptars and the list goes on and on ;D Actually, it is the linguistic element that proves their Illyrian ancestry best.
|
|
|
Post by odel on Jul 25, 2011 15:40:11 GMT -5
Odel, well some are postulating that Slavs from Croatia and Bosnia are closest to Illyrians than Albanians......Wilkes comes to mind? You've probably not even read anything from Wilkes except for some few carefully selected quotes. Quotes which are wrongfully attributed to Wilkes even. I just explained to you that it doesn't matter if the Albanians knew what an Illyrian was, also they didn't know what an Illyrian was prior to 1912? You're making things up and couldn't back that up. This doesn't refute my point concerning the Greeks you moron, it doesn't even address my point concerning the Greeks. Try making your writing more coherent. There's little that we know concerning Illyrian culture, however we do know that the Albanians preserved a lot of Paleo-Balkan traditions. Anyways, let's say there actually isn't any cultural similarities at all; still it wouldn't matter. Why? Because after such a long time it wouldn't be likely that after thousands of years there would still be a large cultural similarity even though the Albanians are the descendants of the Illyrians. How similar are the Scandinavians to the Vikings in a cultural sense today? How similar are the Greeks similar to the ancient Greeks in a cultural sense today or even three hundred years ago? Neither are culturally similar to their ancestors; this is only natural though and it doesn't make them less connected to the peoples of the past. It's not, as already mentioned linguistics is probably what proves the Albanian-Illyrian continuity most strongly of all the ethnological studies. Illyrian wasn't Centum; the theory of Illyrian being a Centum language was a mistake made because of the erronous linking of Venetian (which was a Centum language) with Illyrian. However, Illyrian and Venetian weren't related languages and Illyrian is now considered to be most likely be a Satem language. Also, a language being Centum doesn't exclude it from being related to a Satem language; Greek while being a Centum language is closer to Armenian which is a Satem language than any other IE language. You might want to go a bit deeper into this claim. Albanians never were short or dark skinned; actually according to anthropology we're not only taller but lighter than the Serbs as well. Interestingly, we were taller than the Serbs even though we had considerably lower living standards! Personally, I'm 189 cm tall, I have green eyes and golden blonde hair; most people on both my mothers side and my fathers side are quite tall although a bit mixed concerning pigmentation, but we're more prone to the ligth pigment extremes than the dark pigment extremes as none are really dark. Small and dark skinned fits the average Kosova Serb very well though.
|
|
|
Post by uz on Jul 25, 2011 18:15:52 GMT -5
^ You have people like Wilkes on one hand and Malcolm and Edwin Jaucqes on the other. Who is right and who is wrong? I think you guys are more scared of the truth than we are. Whose scared, it's the Albanians who push for this idea, and use it to justify violence, colonialism and hate towards their neighbours. Prior of when the Albs were told of this POSSIBILITY, you had peace with the Slavs. It is considered high treason for an Albanian to deny Illyrian roots, b/c without holding strong to this myth, the identity is weak, and their Balkan significance is even weaker.
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 25, 2011 22:31:58 GMT -5
Pyrro, ofcourse there is no illyrians, its so important to the Albanians to be important.
|
|