Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 28, 2011 20:08:39 GMT -5
I still don't understand what this last few comments have to do with Slava tradition? Slava is a tradition(it literally means "Celebration" or "Glory") which has been very important for every true South Slav. Originally it was pagan tradition where people would celebrate an one of the Slavic deity in a form of a large feast, but later on it was adjusted for Christian religion(by simply giving the Slavic deities names of Christian saints; in example Perun - Saint Elijah). Chentovist, if priests, like this Anthimos, are supporting any forms of intolerance towards other nation then you can imagine how much average Greek is brainwashed. But recently its more and more present in other Balkanic countries. yes the original topic has gone off the rails a bit here. the point is that the slava was/is celebrated by the ethnic macedonians from greece. if serbs consider the macedonians as southern serbs, then why don't they pressure the greeks to give them their rights - rights to learn their language, practice their religion in their language, recognise them as a minority etc. etc. ?? the fact is that serbs know the macedonians are not serbs, and they are sticking to their 1913 agreement with the greeks to divide macedonia, and share a common border.
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Post by ulf on Aug 28, 2011 20:18:11 GMT -5
I still don't understand what this last few comments have to do with Slava tradition? Slava is a tradition(it literally means "Celebration" or "Glory") which has been very important for every true South Slav. Originally it was pagan tradition where people would celebrate an one of the Slavic deity in a form of a large feast, but later on it was adjusted for Christian religion(by simply giving the Slavic deities names of Christian saints; in example Perun - Saint Elijah). Chentovist, if priests, like this Anthimos, are supporting any forms of intolerance towards other nation then you can imagine how much average Greek is brainwashed. But recently its more and more present in other Balkanic countries. yes the original topic has gone off the rails a bit here. the point is that the slava was/is celebrated by the ethnic macedonians from greece. if serbs consider the macedonians as southern serbs, then why don't they pressure the greeks to give them their rights - rights to learn their language, practice their religion in their language, recognise them as a minority etc. etc. ?? the fact is that serbs know the macedonians are not serbs, and they are sticking to their 1913 agreement with the greeks to divide macedonia, and share a common border. Truth is Serbia f**ked up themselves when they stood on the Greek side. But Serbian politicians are pushing us deeper and deeper toward the bottom and for like 20+ years. But its best not to go off, if you wish to discuss this topic you can make a topic in Serbian section of forum
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 28, 2011 20:29:39 GMT -5
yes the original topic has gone off the rails a bit here. the point is that the slava was/is celebrated by the ethnic macedonians from greece. if serbs consider the macedonians as southern serbs, then why don't they pressure the greeks to give them their rights - rights to learn their language, practice their religion in their language, recognise them as a minority etc. etc. ?? the fact is that serbs know the macedonians are not serbs, and they are sticking to their 1913 agreement with the greeks to divide macedonia, and share a common border. Truth is Serbia f**ked up themselves when they stood on the Greek side. But Serbian politicians are pushing us deeper and deeper toward the bottom and for like 20+ years. But its best not to go off, if you wish to discuss this topic you can make a topic in Serbian section of forum that's ok, i know the answers. serbia will never give up their alliance with the greeks. this is what is behind the macedonian church issue, as well as keeping the dream of greater-serbia alive.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 29, 2011 1:28:42 GMT -5
^ greater serbia, chento, serbs were the *least* greater, Miloshevich granted Vardar banovina its independance. Please be careful what you say.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 29, 2011 1:47:55 GMT -5
^ greater serbia, chento, serbs were the *least* greater, Miloshevich granted Vardar banovina its independance. Please be careful what you say. the macedonian people voted overwhelmingly for independence. our politicians granted the people their wish. i believe milosevic toyed with the idea of dividing macedonia with the greeks, but the greeks were smart enough to stay out of it. i think he was also a little busy in croatia and bosnia, trying to cling to a greater serbia there. what we have today is a serbia that is much closer to serbia-proper. with the exception of sandzhak and ethnic hungarian areas in voivodina, then serbia is approaching it's natural borders....
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Post by ulf on Aug 29, 2011 12:44:27 GMT -5
Truth is Serbia f**ked up themselves when they stood on the Greek side. But Serbian politicians are pushing us deeper and deeper toward the bottom and for like 20+ years. But its best not to go off, if you wish to discuss this topic you can make a topic in Serbian section of forum that's ok, i know the answers. serbia will never give up their alliance with the greeks. this is what is behind the macedonian church issue, as well as keeping the dream of greater-serbia alive. Huh? No no no, you're mixing some things here. That's not what I meant I have different view on it. Why should every small Orthodox nation have it own church? As long as there are people who associate church with nationalism they shouldn't be allowed to have anything with Orthodox Christian religion(or any religion at all). Christ died for you on cross not to spread hate on your fellow Christians(no matter which nation are they), to show you what is a pure love and how you should all forgive each other no matter what happens; and as far as you don't see it like that you are not worthy to be called Christian. With the above said, you reminded me of one unpleasant event I had some time ago at a friends party
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Post by kartadolofonos on Aug 29, 2011 13:16:46 GMT -5
This Fyro Mc Donald Clown State want to create his own Orthodox Exarchiate like the Bulgarians Komitate
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Post by missanthropology58 on Aug 29, 2011 13:36:34 GMT -5
It's not Turks FYROM Albanians Bulgarians or whatever elese
It's Southern Italians, Turks who are of Anatolian descent or Western Turks Albanians who are Tosks and some Ex Yugoslavs who have Potanic ancestry are all partially Greek in ancestry. It's just because all of those areas have had Ionian Greek colonization
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 29, 2011 18:21:14 GMT -5
As long as there are people who associate church with nationalism they shouldn't be allowed to have anything with Orthodox Christian religion(or any religion at all).
Fine, let's disolve the Serbian church, and all other national churches and all fall under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. This way we can mirror the Roman Catholics and their hierarchical structure.
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Post by ulf on Aug 29, 2011 19:10:11 GMT -5
As long as there are people who associate church with nationalism they shouldn't be allowed to have anything with Orthodox Christian religion(or any religion at all). Fine, let's disolve the Serbian church, and all other national churches and all fall under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. This way we can mirror the Roman Catholics and their hierarchical structure. Love for God(and thus every other thing on this world, as everything is God) is not to be shown through church but deeds. That's the basic part of Christ teaching. You can be better Christian then the person who goes every day in church by just respecting the words Christ said, and living in accordance to them. You don't need independent church in order to have this; and also if I remember good Jesus didn't wanted a church dedicated to God, nor to be represented on icons, it was just later on when Roman empire adopted this religion as a official religion of empire when this iconography appeared(church was built by Jesus followers but he was not happy about it). You are blind fool if you can't understand this simple things. Beside I am not even Christian, yet it somehow seem like I have greater respect for Jesus Christ deed then you (and many other people) do.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 29, 2011 19:43:08 GMT -5
As long as there are people who associate church with nationalism they shouldn't be allowed to have anything with Orthodox Christian religion(or any religion at all). Fine, let's disolve the Serbian church, and all other national churches and all fall under the Patriarchate of Constantinople. This way we can mirror the Roman Catholics and their hierarchical structure. Love for God(and thus every other thing on this world, as everything is God) is not to be shown through church but deeds. That's the basic part of Christ teaching. You can be better Christian then the person who goes every day in church by just respecting the words Christ said, and living in accordance to them. You don't need independent church in order to have this; and also if I remember good Jesus didn't wanted a church dedicated to God, nor to be represented on icons, it was just later on when Roman empire adopted this religion as a official religion of empire when this iconography appeared(church was built by Jesus followers but he was not happy about it). You are blind fool if you can't understand this simple things. Beside I am not even Christian, yet it somehow seem like I have greater respect for Jesus Christ deed then you (and many other people) do. you don't seem to understand the balkans very well then. church politics is intertwined with national politics. in the past the church played an important role in protecting it's flock, and preserving the national feelings of it's people in the face of 500+ years of ottoman islamic rule. i'm not saying it's right or wrong, i'm just saying this is reality.
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Post by ulf on Aug 29, 2011 20:00:31 GMT -5
Love for God(and thus every other thing on this world, as everything is God) is not to be shown through church but deeds. That's the basic part of Christ teaching. You can be better Christian then the person who goes every day in church by just respecting the words Christ said, and living in accordance to them. You don't need independent church in order to have this; and also if I remember good Jesus didn't wanted a church dedicated to God, nor to be represented on icons, it was just later on when Roman empire adopted this religion as a official religion of empire when this iconography appeared(church was built by Jesus followers but he was not happy about it). You are blind fool if you can't understand this simple things. Beside I am not even Christian, yet it somehow seem like I have greater respect for Jesus Christ deed then you (and many other people) do. you don't seem to understand the balkans very well then. church politics is intertwined with national politics. in the past the church played an important role in protecting it's flock, and preserving the national feelings of it's people in the face of 500+ years of ottoman islamic rule. i'm not saying it's right or wrong, i'm just saying this is reality. I understand Balkan very well, but you don't have to be a typical Balkanian dumbass, as there are too much of them already. Are you living in year 1511 or in 2011? Time changed. Resist stupid media, school or any other kind of propaganda. Have you own opinions. Think sober, logical and natural. Don't throw religion into politics, as the one is tool of love and other is tool of war. At the end, you have many people that found themselves in another religion because that's where they experienced real connection to the God.
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Post by uz on Aug 29, 2011 20:04:02 GMT -5
Cheers to that^.
The ultimate balance.
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 30, 2011 3:34:58 GMT -5
How can you expect other Orthodox churches to respect you when you guys are making Alexander the Great into a Christian Saint ? Your church is becoming more like a cult and it seems some circles are willing do anything to justify your new found identity. img828.imageshack.us/img828/4964/staleksandarmake.png
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Post by BigBlackBeast on Aug 30, 2011 8:34:03 GMT -5
I will tell you a little story about my friends grandfather, who left Aegean Macedonia as a refugee. He returned not long ago to his ancestral home only to find these 'Greek Macedonians' from Pontus living in his family home. When he told them who he was, they qucikly slammed the door and threatened to call the police. The man left not wanting to make any trouble. The issue is that this is still his family home. It was never sold to any one, and these were squatters from a foreign land living in his ancestral home. Now you tell me who the Macedonian is here?? Thank you for that … it is indeed a nice story. One that I don’t particularly care to explore as it hardly addresses the issue at hand. I do not doubt that on very many occasions reparations are due to the Slavic inhabitants of the area and personally I would have no qualms were Greece to recognise a minority in the region. However, for it to be considered a ‘Macedonian’ minority would be an absolute nonsense in Greek Macedonia … because others – not the Slavs – are the Macedonians. You must understand that in Greece ‘Macedonian’ means something else and can never mean your people. Sure you might make disparaging comments about the refugees but tell me, what is it that a Slav ‘Macedonian’ could say to a native Greek-speaking Macedonian inhabiting those very same lands as the ancient Macedonians??? ‘Kako si,’ we are the Makedonski, descendants of Alexander … please recognise me! At best, such an undiplomatic idiot would get a ‘”go f.uck yourself you stupid Bulgar” look from these Makedones … At best.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Aug 31, 2011 0:56:46 GMT -5
I will tell you a little story about my friends grandfather, who left Aegean Macedonia as a refugee. He returned not long ago to his ancestral home only to find these 'Greek Macedonians' from Pontus living in his family home. When he told them who he was, they qucikly slammed the door and threatened to call the police. The man left not wanting to make any trouble. The issue is that this is still his family home. It was never sold to any one, and these were squatters from a foreign land living in his ancestral home. Now you tell me who the Macedonian is here?? Thank you for that … it is indeed a nice story. One that I don’t particularly care to explore as it hardly addresses the issue at hand. I do not doubt that on very many occasions reparations are due to the Slavic inhabitants of the area and personally I would have no qualms were Greece to recognise a minority in the region. However, for it to be considered a ‘Macedonian’ minority would be an absolute nonsense in Greek Macedonia … because others – not the Slavs – are the Macedonians. You must understand that in Greece ‘Macedonian’ means something else and can never mean your people. Sure you might make disparaging comments about the refugees but tell me, what is it that a Slav ‘Macedonian’ could say to a native Greek-speaking Macedonian inhabiting those very same lands as the ancient Macedonians??? ‘Kako si,’ we are the Makedonski, descendants of Alexander … please recognise me! At best, such an undiplomatic idiot would get a ‘”go f.uck yourself you stupid Bulgar” look from these Makedones … At best. Why not just let the people identify how they wish. Let them declare their ethnicity in a census. You know, for country that invented democracy, you sure have trouble practicing it!
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 31, 2011 4:59:37 GMT -5
Democracy also means majority rule. Why the heck should we even bother with less than 1 percent of the total population ? You dont like it ? Leave the country, nobody is putting a gun to your head.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Aug 31, 2011 13:44:23 GMT -5
How can you expect other Orthodox churches to respect you when you guys are making Alexander the Great into a Christian Saint ? Your church is becoming more like a cult and it seems some circles are willing do anything to justify your new found identity. img828.imageshack.us/img828/4964/staleksandarmake.pngThats a very trollish thing to say. Christianity is such a better way of life than Islam. Look at the Crusades and how innocent they were to both Levantine and European Orthodox Christians a Christian can never do anything bad. Ever.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Aug 31, 2011 13:46:45 GMT -5
The Turkified Greeks were the Cretan Turks they were expelled to Syria and Lebanon we have them they usually live near Baalek other than that it's the Yoruks the Thracian Turks who immigrated to Anatolia because Anatolia is really Pontus
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Post by missanthropology58 on Aug 31, 2011 13:48:31 GMT -5
Or Asia Minor.
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