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Post by albpatriot18 on Sept 11, 2011 3:43:45 GMT -5
Guys im interested in Balkan anthropology particularly the influence of the invading Ottoman army's on the local populations. I had an intresting conversation with a muslim bosnian and we were talking about the balkans and he was telling me that bosnians are the same like Albanian that Bosnian orthodox and catholic and Muslims are the same ethnic group but torn the orthodox think there Serbian like some orthodox Albanians that think there Greek. and the Catholics think theyre croats just because there catholic and and somehow the word came up that serbs are darker then Bosnian which is generally true bosnian look much whiter then serbs no matter where theyre from and he said thats because at the battle of kosovo most of the serb men where killed and one of there leaders forced the woman to have chldren with the ottomans so as to make sure the survival of the serb people there fore serbs are darker because of this mixing and i was thinking the same think in a way happened with skanderbeg 30 years of war devasted albania and i read like 25 percent of people killed and 25 percent fled to italy (todays arberesh) and the rest that remanind you can imagined where vandalized by the ottomans like rape and intermarige betwen widows and young girls because of the Albanian men had been killed . does any body have any info on this how the ottomans mixed with serbs or albnian because we were the two most troublesome peole in the balkans so alot of the men were killed i dont know about bulgars and greeks.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 12:11:28 GMT -5
I can tell this much... the Ottomans toned down their brute force as the decades went by. At first the Ottoman goal was to completely eliminate Serb identity from the Balkans, this went on for some time. Raping, kidnapping, slavery etc... was common throughout the Balkan region.
I don't agree that Bosnian are "whiter" than Serbs. The only "dark" Serbs I have met were actually from Bosnia/Sandzak area, and some even very south. Belgrade Serbs in general are white, and most can fit into many other European categories.
Many people come to the conclusion that Serbs have been ruled by the Ottomans for 500 years and because of this, by default they carry Turk-dna. This assumption is weak, because we tend to not take into account the many Rebel villages/towns/cities who were completely un-controlable by the Ottomans. Serbia was conquered, but that was only less than half the battle, the people weren't turning in themselves that easily.
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Post by odel on Sept 11, 2011 13:13:37 GMT -5
Anthropologists like Coon noted that the Serbs were on average darker and shorter than the Bosnians and Croats, mostly due to a stronger Med component among Serbs. It isn't necessarily due to the Ottomans, it's more likely that the Serbs always were both shorter and darker.
The Ottomans didn't really have much of an impact on Balkanians genetically; at least not directly. Depopulated areas either remained depopulated until the locals managed to populate the area again as in Northern-Albania, or they were populated by another people, as in Bosnia where Bosnian Serbs are largely Vlachs. The Vlachs populated areas in Bosnia and were later assimilated into the Serb ethnos mainly due to the Orthodox church.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 13:17:24 GMT -5
I am 189cm in height, and concidered avg amongst Serbs. When I'm Belgrade and outter areas I feel short the only time in my life.
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Post by odel on Sept 11, 2011 13:23:57 GMT -5
I am 189cm in height, and concidered avg amongst Serbs. When I'm Belgrade and outter areas I feel short the only time in my life. I doubt it, I'm just as tall as you are and I live in Norway and I'm taller than most. There are people that are taller than me but I don't really feel that small and I never have. This is true for all of Scandinavia, people are tall yet I always feel that I'm taller than average, and I am.
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Post by darkness on Sept 11, 2011 13:28:37 GMT -5
I can tell this much... the Ottomans toned down their brute force as the decades went by. At first the Ottoman goal was to completely eliminate Serb identity from the Balkans, this went on for some time. Raping, kidnapping, slavery etc... was common throughout the Balkan region. I don't agree that Bosnian are "whiter" than Serbs. The only "dark" Serbs I have met were actually from Bosnia/Sandzak area, and some even very south. Belgrade Serbs in general are white, and most can fit into many other European categories. Many people come to the conclusion that Serbs have been ruled by the Ottomans for 500 years and because of this, by default they carry Turk-dna. This assumption is weak, because we tend to not take into account the many Rebel villages/towns/cities who were completely un-controlable by the Ottomans. Serbia was conquered, but that was only less than half the battle, the people weren't turning in themselves that easily.[/quote] albanians are called turks also about this reason,and about bosnians,croats being whiter then us alb,serbs.i don't think this is true i'm whiter then all bosnians and croats i have met,i've also lighter hair and eyes then most.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 13:44:12 GMT -5
^ Actually you may be right, the Balkan peoples' probably had greater influence on them rather than vise versa.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 13:47:58 GMT -5
This is what I meant that their "brutal-ways" toned down over the years of their pressence. In many ways they found our cultures respectful, and allowed diversity. Unlike the Romans.
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Post by sandokan on Sept 11, 2011 13:59:52 GMT -5
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Sept 11, 2011 14:11:25 GMT -5
I can tell this much... the Ottomans toned down their brute force as the decades went by. At first the Ottoman goal was to completely eliminate Serb identity from the Balkans, this went on for some time. Raping, kidnapping, slavery etc... was common throughout the Balkan region. I don't agree that Bosnian are "whiter" than Serbs. The only "dark" Serbs I have met were actually from Bosnia/Sandzak area, and some even very south. Belgrade Serbs in general are white, and most can fit into many other European categories. Many people come to the conclusion that Serbs have been ruled by the Ottomans for 500 years and because of this, by default they carry Turk-dna. This assumption is weak, because we tend to not take into account the many Rebel villages/towns/cities who were completely un-controlable by the Ottomans. Serbia was conquered, but that was only less than half the battle, the people weren't turning in themselves that easily. The Ottomans never tried to eliminate Serbian identity.. get your facts straight.
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Post by darkness on Sept 11, 2011 14:11:44 GMT -5
Oh please, let all those bs ... Turks had a very little impact on our genetic, it's actually Balkanians who had a huge genetical impact on Turks (Serbs, Bosnians, Bulgarians, Albanians, Greeks). And I don't know what is this complex some have here with dark hair, dark eyes etc ... I have dark brown hair, and dark eyes, no one never told me I look like a Turk, they actually all thnik I'm a Belgian (I live in Belgium). Even when I posted my picture on Illyria forum, people told me I looked like a Croatian, Albanian, Greek, and finally all agreed that I could easily fit in any Balkans country. I'm fine with my hair and my eyes, and even with my hight (174 cm). i live in belgium too,all people think i'm belgian and sometimes russian.and i have to say that balkan people really look very different from turks,and i know what i'm talking about bcs i see hundreds of turks everyday here in belgium.i'm also disgusted by balkanians who want to portrayed their own like they're some kind of swedes or germans,by doing this we put ourself down and make the germans...look like some kind of gods. WE ARE DAMN BALKANIANS WE ARE STRONG PROUD and DARK EHEHEHEHHE
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Post by odel on Sept 11, 2011 14:12:27 GMT -5
Exactly, the Turkish invasion of Asia Minor didn't have any large noticeable genetical impact on the population of Asia Minor; it would be even less likely that there would be much of a genetical impact on the population of the Balkans seeing as the Turks never settled and absorbed he population there but only subdued the population.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 14:13:07 GMT -5
Strong, Proud and (some) Dark.
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Post by darkness on Sept 11, 2011 14:15:32 GMT -5
Strong, Proud and (some) Dark. but you get my point,it's wrong to assume that people from balkan are pale and blue eyes and blond hair.these people are a very little minority in the whole balkan.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 14:16:36 GMT -5
Brown hair and brown eyes is the most common I've seen.
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Post by darkness on Sept 11, 2011 14:17:26 GMT -5
Brown hair and brown eyes is the most common I've seen. true
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Post by albpatriot18 on Sept 11, 2011 17:53:41 GMT -5
First i agree completely that there is a big difference between western and eastern turks western turks overwhelmingly are made of Balkan people (Albanian, Greeks, Bosnian Bulgarians and so on), izmir bursa istanbul are basically european cites the eastern part is made of kurds and and arabs. Second turks are a people of central asia like kazakhs or uzbeks but like 1 or 2 percent of people in turkey even look remotley central asian. Most are the indo european speaking peoples of annatolia like the hittiteas and balkan peoples.in western turkey but there army while conquering the balkans where made up of middle asterns Second look at this map the Turks did settle in Balkans mainly in flat farmland like Macedonia and Bulgaria and Greece. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Balkans-ethnic_(1861).jpg
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Post by albpatriot18 on Sept 11, 2011 18:13:24 GMT -5
And Bosnians of any religion in Bosnia look like Slavs and most look like a mixture of dinarics and slavs. but serbs look like a mixture of middle easterns and slavs not all but alot do.
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Post by uz on Sept 11, 2011 18:14:21 GMT -5
hahahahah
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 12, 2011 0:47:20 GMT -5
He's probably thinking of Southern Serbs, or Kosovo Serbs. BTW, I was watching Serbian News on SBS (Semi-community channel), and one of the news hosts looked Palestinian or Turkish. Mainly due to his beard, but also his skin colour and shape of head.
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