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Post by Skroz on Sept 12, 2012 8:03:00 GMT -5
you cant have those ethnicities when you take the foundation away Of course you can. Those ethnicities have developed so much over the centuries that if religion were to disappear the three ethnicities would be united enough to exist.
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Post by uz on Sept 12, 2012 8:04:51 GMT -5
I think that Serbs are Orthodox Croats. Once upon a time, perhaps. But today Serbs and Croats are distinct from one another... so we're tought.
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Post by Skroz on Sept 12, 2012 8:10:42 GMT -5
yes bcs of serbian orthodox church without this you wouldnt have serbs today Serbs and Croats were two separate tribes before they were baptised.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 12, 2012 11:21:14 GMT -5
I like your take on it this is how feel when looking at us presently. If we were to re-write history and had stayed pagans Slavism would've grown that would spread far and wide. These newer religions always had a foreign hand puppeteer, teaching-forcing us their blasphemous idea of civilization. Religion was a survival mechanism. In medieval times if you were from a non-Christian country in Europe you were ripe pickings for invasion. Plus you have things like the Plague which the Churches promised they could stop and heal. I agree with you. I do not like societies based on religious force or socialistic societies which are of the same cut.
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Post by uz on Sept 12, 2012 23:08:39 GMT -5
Segregating, to be intentionally distinct from one another to fulfill a dream, of unity LoL
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Post by terroreign on Sept 13, 2012 4:06:12 GMT -5
And that would be your business or pertaining to the subject at hand how?
I think you're the one who has growing up to do.
In some ways it is, in some it's not. Slava, Vencanje and Badnje Vece are distinctly slavic.
I am a Yugoslav (or South Slav), in other words a Serb. Yes those South Slavs that speak Stokavian, or in other words Serbian, have the moral and historical responsibility to declare as Serbs.
Serbian identity has tenure over the Bosniak/Croat identity so it takes precedent.
One people, one language "medvjed"
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Post by Skroz on Sept 13, 2012 5:45:34 GMT -5
I think you're the one who has growing up to do. I'm not the one acting like a teenager angry at the world. Slava, Vencanje and Badnje Vece are distinctly slavic. No, they're Christian. I am a Yugoslav (or South Slav), in other words a Serb. I mean declare your ethnicity as a Yugoslav. You can't be declared as both Yugoslav and Serb. Yes those South Slavs that speak Stokavian, or in other words Serbian, have the moral and historical responsibility to declare as Serbs. Shtokavian is a dialect, not a language And seeing by your post, you don't understand the concept of ethnicity. Serbian identity has tenure over the Bosniak/Croat identity so it takes precedent. Yeah, I can definitely tell you haven't matured mentally; still believing in 19th century propaganda People are smarter these days, they don't fall for such nonsense as easily ;D
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 13, 2012 6:48:55 GMT -5
You're a tool Bojane. Too much Seselj in your life. You better go fact check yourself. I'll give you a couple days before you're shown the errors of your way by someone else. Medvjed. They try their best to ride the coatails of Yugoslavia. The ideals of a real Yugoslavia weren't even Serbian and Serbia was in strong opposition to the early philosophy of Yugoslavia or Slavdom until it saw an opportunity to attempt to assimilate other Slavs. Don't be an idiot with this word play. All South Slav =/= Serb and even most Serbian academics would laugh at you by even suggesting that. Stokavian? You're still clinging to this antiquated argument? Is this what i the internet Serbs used to convert you? Brother , if you want to have a discourse about Stokavian I'm game. Is this what made you surrender your Duklijan Montenegrin history and pride to Serbs just like when Serbia conquered Montenegro all those years ago? Serbian identity has tenure over the Bosniak/Croat identity so it takes precedent. Prove it. I would say chosing between the ethnic names of 'Bulgar' 'Croat' and 'Serb' , Serb as an ethnicity is the youngest. I mean 'Serbs' didn't even have a country named Serbia ( Raska??) until they started converting to Or thodoxy, the Greek religion. Those Slavs that lived in Raska adopted the name their Byzantine Orthodox overlords called them 'Serb.' Even your beloved Greek brothers write clearly that they named the Serbs. Before you start critiqing others on their identities check your own.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 20, 2012 23:00:57 GMT -5
"No, they're Christian."
His NOT wrong, some pagan traditions seeped into christianity! Just like in Islam, the pagan arabs believe in the MOON GOD, hence the moon crescent.
Slava IS a slavic tradition because instead of having a Slavic god acting as a family protector, it became switched in Christianity to be a saint instead!
Even the EASTER eggs was an old pagan tradition of FERTILITY!
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 20, 2012 23:04:17 GMT -5
"Prove it. I would say chosing between the ethnic names of 'Bulgar' 'Croat' and 'Serb' , Serb as an ethnicity is the youngest. I mean 'Serbs' didn't even have a country named Serbia ( Raska??) until they started converting to Or thodoxy, the Greek religion. Those Slavs that lived in Raska adopted the name their Byzantine Orthodox overlords called them 'Serb.' Even your beloved Greek brothers write clearly that they named the Serbs."
Why do the newer nations always talk chit? Answer me then, DID THE BYZANTINES NAME THE SORBS/WENDS/SERBS of Eastern Germany after their ruddy shoes?
I sometimes don't understand the retardedness here?
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Post by Skroz on Sept 21, 2012 0:31:45 GMT -5
His NOT wrong, some pagan traditions seeped into christianity! Just like in Islam, the pagan arabs believe in the MOON GOD, hence the moon crescent. Slava IS a slavic tradition because instead of having a Slavic god acting as a family protector, it became switched in Christianity to be a saint instead! Slava was a Slavic tradition. Now it is a Christian tradition of Slavic origin. Calling Slava a Slavic tradition is as stupid as saying Christmas is pagan, not Christian. Of course it's Christian, the pagan elements aren't the same, just like with the Slava; you'r celebrating a Christian Saint, hence why the days are named after Christian saints, and not Slavic gods. I would love for Serbs to rename the days after Slavic gods and change the traditions of Slava back to Slavic ones. And I would encourage other Slavs to do the same with their holidays and traditions. Even the EASTER eggs was an old pagan tradition of FERTILITY! So now Easter isn't a Christian holiday? What kind of a Christian are you? You would be killed if you said this 500 years ago.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 21, 2012 1:25:50 GMT -5
^ Medvjed, l'm not a crap talking Danube Bulgar. Look it up! The origins of the Christian Easter derive itself DIRECTLY from the Pagan goddess of EASTRE (Spring-fertility goddess).
PS A good exercise for you to explore would be Ameridians of South America who combined their OLD rituals with christianity!
Again, Serbian Orthodoxy has retained and blended her old Slavic traditions into a foreign arabic religion (Christianity).
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Post by Skroz on Sept 21, 2012 5:31:10 GMT -5
^ Medvjed, l'm not a crap talking Danube Bulgar. Look it up! The origins of the Christian Easter derive itself DIRECTLY from the Pagan goddess of EASTRE (Spring-fertility goddess). PS A good exercise for you to explore would be Ameridians of South America who combined their OLD rituals with christianity! Again, Serbian Orthodoxy has retained and blended her old Slavic traditions into a foreign arabic religion (Christianity). You're saying Easter is pagan. Easter is not Pagan, it's Christian. Easter is loosely based on a pagan holiday by a different name that was celebrated differently. This is same with Slava; it is a Christian tradition based loosely on an previous Slavic (pagan) tradition.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 21, 2012 12:37:18 GMT -5
I know , you should really stop talking chit.
What's important is what the so-called Serbs called themselves. Serb was a ultra derogatory term for Slav ( which is a latin translation of the same) used by the Greeks. It's akin to calling blacks the N-word when you really think about it. The shoddy shoes reference was probably a stereotype annunciating the barbarism of Slavs vs the 'enlightened' Hellens.
Croats and Bulgars were also called Slavs and even Serbs(Greek anti-Slav word) on some occasions. Serbs didn't call themselves Serbs until the creation of their church when the Rascians finally embraced the Greek/Latin name for themselves "Serb." In the early medieval period four main Slavic groups existed in the Balkans ( yes I know there were smaller ones too): Karantians ( a geographic name for pre-Slovenes i.e. Slavs) , Croats ( ethnic name for Slavs next to the Karantians), Bulgars ( ethnic name), and Rascians ( geographic name for a colony of Slavs in Moesia). Forget what uneducated lables foreigners threw upon these people rather look at the evidence ( old in inscriptions) of what these Slavs actually called themselves.
Croatian and Croatia is undeniable as one clearly sees in the Baska Tablet referencing Zvonimir and Hrvatski Kralj as well as Duke Trpimir and the Croatian reference. Bulgarian inscriptions exist of Bulgars calling themselves Bulgarian in the Slavic language ( a lot in Macedonia). What of Serbs.... hmm....first time we get anything about Serbs calling themselves Serbs is almost 3 centuries after the Croatian Baska Tablet and after the Rascian conversion to Orthdoxy and the acceptence of the Serb name.
Think about it , your contradictory history makes no sense without this glaring fact. You guys are like Slovenes. Random 'Slavs' who accepted a foreign name for Slavs, not an ethnic Sarmatian tribal name like Croat or Bulgar ( Bulgar might be Turk originated).
I wonder if you understand yourself. [/quote]
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Post by srbobran on Sept 21, 2012 14:52:09 GMT -5
Do you have a source? I've asked you literally a million times and you never seem to reply. Show me one concrete example of Serbs self referencing themselves as "Rascians" and not foreigners using that term as an ethonym referring to just one of the medieval Serbian principalities.
What about the Serboi? The first mention of the Serbs as a Sarmatian tribe is in 50 AD (Serbi) and from the sources I read, that's a lot earlier than a mention of the Croatian name. The fact that you lack even this basic knowledge really discredits your thesis mate.
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Post by uz on Sept 21, 2012 15:14:59 GMT -5
^ Medvjed, l'm not a crap talking Danube Bulgar. Look it up! The origins of the Christian Easter derive itself DIRECTLY from the Pagan goddess of EASTRE (Spring-fertility goddess). PS A good exercise for you to explore would be Ameridians of South America who combined their OLD rituals with christianity! Again, Serbian Orthodoxy has retained and blended her old Slavic traditions into a foreign arabic religion (Christianity). You're saying Easter is pagan. Easter is not Pagan, it's Christian. Easter is loosely based on a pagan holiday by a different name that was celebrated differently. This is same with Slava; it is a Christian tradition based loosely on an previous Slavic (pagan) tradition. Christianity comes from paganism. Which is why we should've stayed pagan from the start. Christianity or religion in general introduced to us the pyramid system/scheme we have today.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 21, 2012 22:46:48 GMT -5
"What about the Serboi? The first mention of the Serbs as a Sarmatian tribe is in 50 AD (Serbi) and from the sources I read, that's a lot earlier than a mention of the Croatian name. The fact that you lack even this basic knowledge really discredits your thesis mate."
Srbo, what do you expect with an Ustashe sympathizer. Real Croatian territory is the Slavonia region. Hearing garbage about Vlachs this and that whilst his own speak Vlach in Istra, retards!
PS New nations invent and twist illogical garbage all the time!
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Post by uz on Sept 25, 2012 20:22:25 GMT -5
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