Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on May 16, 2012 19:40:33 GMT -5
www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml"All the great seafaring civilizations from the middle Bronze Age to the Iron Age were dominated by J2 men". Also, I double checked what you said about Albanians, Hellenas, and you were right Albanians were almost exclusively J2b2, not J2b(M12). Still it is interesting to see such high frequency of J2 in Albania. I guess it is proof of ancient Greek influence Thanks, well, probably J2 in Albania came from Greeks(through Greece).
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on May 16, 2012 19:47:59 GMT -5
hmmm from the distribution map, i would conclude the highest concentration is in CRETE island, which is INDEED the stronghold of ancient greek blood in the modern world. Illiterate, check this one again... J2b-M12 highest frequency is found in Hellas/Greece.
Haplogroup J2b-M12 was associated with Neolithic Greece (ca. 8500 - 4300 BCE) and was reported to be found in modern Crete (3.1%) and mainland Greece (Macedonia 7.0%, Thessaly 8.8%, Argolis 1.8%) [30].
dictionary.sensagent.com/haplogroup+j2+(y-dna)/en-en/
Another source...
Haplogroup J2b-M12 was associated with Neolithic Greece (ca. 8500 - 4300 BCE) and was reported to be found in modern Crete (3.1%) and mainland Greece (Macedonia 7.0%, Thessaly 8.8%, Argolis 1.8%).[29]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J2_(Y-DNA)
Haplogroup J2b-M12 was frequent in Thessaly and Greek Macedonia
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2007.00414.x/abstract;jsessionid=C6C9397037188EDE6BD69EED94A9A0D6.d02t03Who's says so, you? Bring here any Anthropologist or Geneticist who's saying so, I wait... Prove it, bring here any Anthropologist or Geneticist who's says so, I wait...
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on May 16, 2012 20:29:55 GMT -5
I have to say, I don't agree with Pyrros most of the time, but Hellenas is by far (hyperbole) the least scientific and by far the least rational person of this board. Any person with darker hair is Greek to Hellenas. Whatever I post is not mine, it comes from scientific sources, unlike yours, as you didn't post any source which supports your claims. Least rational are the Albanians and those who doubt the scientific sources I post. I never said that Any person with darker hair is Greek, you are another liar and you try to slander against me as well. Wrong, the truth: J2bIt's maximum frenquency is achieved around Albania, Kosovo, Montenegro and NORTHWEST GREECE. www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J2_Y-DNA.shtml
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 16, 2012 22:36:59 GMT -5
Not true. J2 is found frequently also in northern Greece. LOL, just LOL, btw if we believe garbage distribution maps from YOUR OWN garbage wiki, made off "research" that never truly happened, based on samples of less than 30 ppl, then YES, the color in Crete is more intense ... can't you read your own shit that you post here?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 16, 2012 22:39:43 GMT -5
helenas you are ridiculous...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 16, 2012 22:57:02 GMT -5
according to the (potentially idiotic) map, of the (potentially idiotic) wiki that alay posted : Crete should have 30-40% concentration, right? The point is that helenas did not refute this wiki, which is clearly against his theory. Maybe the fact that alay behaves like pro-greek "material" plays some role in this? in any way, you guys are disgusting political crooks.
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Post by bowandarrow on May 17, 2012 5:00:40 GMT -5
Not true. J2 is found frequently also in northern Greece. LOL, just LOL, btw if we believe garbage distribution maps from YOUR OWN garbage wiki, made off "research" that never truly happened, based on samples of less than 30 ppl, then YES, the color in Crete is more intense ... can't you read your own s**t that you post here? Ha ha what you mean is Crete is more Neolithic than north Greece yes I can believe that.
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Post by groet on May 17, 2012 5:28:08 GMT -5
I believe so as well. Albania most likely is source of J2b spread in northern parts of Balkan, but as far as I could see it corresponds to Cincar population more-so then Albanian Cincars are Vlachs, right? I have thought of that as well. Whatever I post is not mine, it comes from scientific sources, unlike yours, as you didn't post any source which supports your claims. Least rational are the Albanians and those who doubt the scientific sources I post. I never said that Any person with darker hair is Greek, you are another liar and you try to slander against me as well. Posting whatever you like with no critique to what you post is worse than not using references at all; every source is not a good source. (I do base myself on actual knowledge and such, I just do not post a source for everything I say, I do not have to prove my knowledge by referencing to everything). You usually take things completely out of context, your references to Coon's work being examples of that. Not being able to think critically and to only try to prove your own, biased agenda is the complete opposite of being scientific. No, you have never said that any person with darker hair is Greek. It surely seems to be part of your agenda to claim Greek ancestry based on appearance; the 'x nation partially Hellenes' threads are examples of all of the aforementioned. You took me far too literally when I said that: it was an exaggeration, but not far from the truth either. I am trying to give you some constructive criticism now, do not take it as slander towards your persona. So there is no need to jump on me or anyone else. Relax. I am sorry for not specifying that the maximum frequency is in ALBANIA and Kosovo, Montenegro and NORTHWEST GREECE. ;D However, this is much more convenient for me as it proves that J2b has its peak frequency in what are either Albanian populated areas or Albanophone areas. All of the aforementioned areas are around Albania and it does seem to expand from just that area. Anyway: thanks! ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 17, 2012 6:36:16 GMT -5
^^^ Epiros is *far* from albanophone area. Just thought to let you know.
apart from your obvious pro-albanian bias, your critique to your contry-man helenas was spot-on.
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Post by ulf on May 17, 2012 10:07:48 GMT -5
I believe so as well. Albania most likely is source of J2b spread in northern parts of Balkan, but as far as I could see it corresponds to Cincar population more-so then Albanian Cincars are Vlachs, right? I have thought of that as well. Yes, there is more to it here: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1809.2005.00251.x/full
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 17, 2012 13:08:39 GMT -5
1st - Greek became prevalent again in 900AD+, and it was a political decision. Ppl mostly spoke vlah. I know for sure that my recent ancestors had real trouble pronouncing the greek sounds as they should be. (e.g. according to the greek paradigm). This says nothing about blood, but says the obvious, that greek language is a rather "recent" "ancient" kind of thing. 2nd... albanians? the author is not serious.
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Post by ulf on May 17, 2012 15:10:49 GMT -5
1st - Greek became prevalent again in 900AD+, and it was a political decision. Ppl mostly spoke vlah. I know for sure that my recent ancestors had real trouble pronouncing the greek sounds as they should be. (e.g. according to the greek paradigm). This says nothing about blood, but says the obvious, that greek language is a rather "recent" "ancient" kind of thing. 2nd... albanians? the author is not serious. The sole purpose I had in mind with this document is to show us that Aromuns in south Albania and Macedonia shows different genetic makeup then other population in region(Greeks, Albanian and Macedonians), with more pronounced J2-M172 and R1b-PN25 markers.
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
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Post by Hellenas on May 17, 2012 19:20:34 GMT -5
The point is that helenas did not refute this wiki, which is clearly against his theory. I don't have any theory, is eupedia and wikipedia which analyze everything, not me.
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 578
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Post by Hellenas on May 17, 2012 19:29:48 GMT -5
No, you have never said that any person with darker hair is Greek. It surely seems to be part of your agenda to claim Greek ancestry based on appearance; the 'x nation partially Hellenes' threads are examples of all of the aforementioned. I never said anywhere that any person with darker hair is Greek. I quoted what Carleton S. Coon said, that Atlanto-Mediterraneans are of Greek origin, just that. Your method is the following as well: Let's Albanize everything. Well, you will not, the frequency of J2b is so much in Albania as is in Kosovo, Montenegro and NORTHWEST GREECE. J2b is not yours, it's also ex-Yugoslavian and Greek.
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Post by bowandarrow on May 18, 2012 7:56:59 GMT -5
Atlantos are for Western Mediterranean origin and Alpines are for the Eastern mediterranean origin people.
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
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Post by Hellenas on May 18, 2012 19:26:38 GMT -5
Atlas (mythology). The progenitor/father of the Atlantians. In Greek mythology, Atlas (English pronunciation: /ˈætləs/, Ancient Greek: Ἄôëáò) was the primordial Titan who supported the heavens. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(mythology)ATLANTO-MEDITERRANEAN. A tall brunet Mediterranean sub-race, the living equivalent of the skeletal Megalithic. Name originally given it by Deniker. See p. 282—see also p. 292 for definition in present classification. www.theapricity.com/snpa/troe-appendixII.htmPontus Pontus[pronunciation?] or Pontos (Greek: Ðüíôïò, "sea"[1]) is a historical Greek designation for a region on the southern coast of the Black Sea, located in modern-day northeastern Turkey. The name was applied to the coastal region in antiquity by the Greeks who colonized the area, and derived from the Greek name of the Black Sea: Ðüíôïò Åýîåéíïò Pontos Euxeinos ("Hospitable Sea"[2]), or simply Pontos. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PontosPONTIC. A variety of Mediterranean or Atlanto-Mediterranean, so named by Bunak. It is concentrated in Bulgaria and in the Rumanian lowlands: it also is found in the Caucasus and Ukraine and westward sporadically as far as Germany, Poland, and Lithuania. www.theapricity.com/snpa/troe-appendixII.htmPontic racial typeIn studying the racial composition of southern Russia, there was evidence of a moderately tall, long-headed, brunet Mediterranean form, which is concentrated along the northern shore of the Black Sea, but which also appears sporadically in the entire Russian population. To western Europeans and Americans, it is better known than its frequency would warrant, for it is exemplified by several world famous ballerinas and opera singers. This is the Mediterranean racial division which the Russian anthropologists call Pontic139 and which the Poles recognize as a very minor element in their own population. It is with little doubt of Neolithic date in southern Russia, Rumania, Bulgaria, and the Hellespont region, and probably in Greece and the Aegean. In most of Thrace it seems more basic than the Danubian, or at least more commonwww.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-XII16.htm
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Post by bowandarrow on May 19, 2012 12:19:51 GMT -5
Fair enough but Alpines can be Pontic too.
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alay
New Member
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Post by alay on May 30, 2012 18:06:41 GMT -5
Did the MtDNA test too. Turns out I'm YDNA haplogroup J2b, and MtDNA haplogroup T. From what I understand MtDNA means very little in terms of ethnicity(since they are all widespread), but these things are quite interesting
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Post by ulf on May 31, 2012 6:02:12 GMT -5
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on May 31, 2012 6:32:02 GMT -5
I was always curious how many actual Slavs penetrated the Balkans and how far south did they actually settle. There are conflicting views. Some believe , such as the Aadmin on this forum, that the Slavs were genetically of very little influence and that linguistic traits do not siginify genetic ones. Others , such as historian John V.A. Fine believe that several large waves of Slavs settled in the Balkans and either assimilated or displaced the more native population and they went as far south as the heart of Greece.
It is hard to believe a non imperial group such as the Slavs were able to assimilate so many natives with just a small base population in the Balkans.
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