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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 6, 2012 18:28:58 GMT -5
The Intergalactic Illyro-Albanian
Possibly, yes. The only Slavic reflexes given for this root are indeed river-names, Russ. (one on either side of the Urals) and Pol. . I prefer to think that Illyrian used *ab-no- for 'river' (as in Ísamnus from *Ís-ab-no-, Intéramna from *Entér-ab-no- vel sim.), but like everything else here, it is only a working hypothesis.
Douglas G. Kilday
And you are not able to see that your "working hypothesis is wrong? Let us take an example: Lat. in-somnia (sleeplessness, loss of sleep) is a cognate of Serb. ne-sanica (sleeplessness, loss of sleep). According to your "working hypotheses" Latin insomnia must be a borrowing from the imaginary Illyrian, this time probably from ins-ab-no. I would not be surprised if one day some profligate "scientist" (of the G. Starostin's and A. Lubotsky's kind) came out with a "hypothesis" that Slavic spavati, spati, German schlafen, Latin sopio -ire and Sanskrit svapati are the loan-words from an intergalactic Illyro_Albanian.
Another digression: is Celtic afanc (sea-monster) related to Eng. whale? Old Irish abann and Welsh afon are clear evidences that Celtic "water" has been derived from the Bel-Gon basis, the same one where the Serbian noun 'voda' (from bol-da => vol-da => voda) originated from. Serbian river Bojana (Buna; stream, river) is another example that IE words as abban, affon, amnis, buna, bojana have the meanings river or stream; cf. Serb. bujica (stream), bujanje (flooding).
River Bojana (Buna) flows also through the teritory of today's Albania, but, as we can see, its name is Serbo-Slavic (not Albanian!) and the great majority of Albanian toponyms are still wearing the Slavic names. As a matter of fact, there is none of the so-called Illyrian place names that can be explained with the help of the Shqiperian language. On the other side, almost all the ancient toponyms in the Balkan can be sufficiently explicated with the use of Slavic vocabulary.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 7, 2012 0:23:06 GMT -5
^ awesome. In addition in Epirus we have "Vovousa" which as named by the Serbs originally as "Vojusa".... hmmmmmm or was it ..... "Bujusha" ...... hmmmm
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 7, 2012 4:21:40 GMT -5
^ There is an Illyrian myth, with which Albanian culture has been flirting for at least 150 years, and as a myth it can't be questioned (for it has all the answers). There is also a very tentative Illyrian science, based mainly on archaeology, and on some data transmitted by Ancient Greek and Latin Historians.
These inscriptions, being totally alien to Albanian, show that the Illyrian question is extremely complicated, and that it isn't likely to be resolved, unless fundamental epigraphic discoveries are made.
The great Illyrologist Hans Krahe himself was no supporter of the Illyrian theory about the origin of Albanians. In his late years he came to understand that most of his paleolinguistic theories were generally wrong. Krahe started by finding Illyrian traces everywhere in Europe, but then it was made clear that all he had found were Indo-European traces -- and nobody had any doubt that Indo-European tribes had been in Europe for a long many years.
Onomastics is of no great help in settling linguistic and ethnogenetic issues. Let's have a look at some important place names in Albanian territories, like Dajti, Shkodra, Durresi, Vlora, Burreli, Drini, Shkumbini, Tirana, etc. Are they Albanian? We can't say that, for there are no Albanian words that would explain them (as we explain, for example, Kruja with "krue" - fountain).
This might well be true, but seems pathetic in front of the fact that we can't explain through Albanian words the place names we currently use, let alone the Illyrian ones. So what?
Let's move up in time, and reach the Middle Ages. In the Middle Ages the Albanians were somewhere there, though their first mention is in the 11th century (or 12th, I'm not sure). Where were they living? Where are the places they have named after their common words (technically called appellatives)? The south is full -- literally full -- of Slavic place names, especially the areas of Vlora, Tepelena, Skrapar, Mallakaster, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism.
ArdianVebiu
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2012 8:40:20 GMT -5
You guys are misunderstanding something, Albanians are indeed the descendants of the Illyrians, its just that most of the land they live on is not theirs. The origin of the Albanians is between the Mirdita valley, this can be proven with toponyms.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 7, 2012 8:59:19 GMT -5
^^^ and it occupies some hectares, i guess?? when Slavs expanded from western europe to the sea of japan??
LMAO
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2012 9:31:13 GMT -5
^^^ and it occupies some hectares, i guess?? when Slavs expanded from western europe to the sea of japan?? LMAO Yea quite small actually, all the albanians that live elsewhere eventually migrated out.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 7, 2012 21:47:23 GMT -5
You guys are misunderstanding something, Albanians are indeed the descendants of the Illyrians, its just that most of the land they live on is not theirs. The origin of the Albanians is between the Mirdita valley, this can be proven with toponyms. Sorcelow, c'mon man, don't fall for their lies and propaganda. There is nothing Illyrian with these people, they are completely opposing races and cultures.
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Post by uz on Oct 7, 2012 23:46:51 GMT -5
You guys are misunderstanding something, Albanians are indeed the descendants of the Illyrians, its just that most of the land they live on is not theirs. The origin of the Albanians is between the Mirdita valley, this can be proven with toponyms. even If so, the Illyrians are still extinct. And there is zero connection today.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 8, 2012 2:12:08 GMT -5
Illyrians might very well never existed in the 1st place. Maybe it was smth like Bosnia or Kosovo. A simple place name.
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 8, 2012 4:04:39 GMT -5
even If so, the Illyrians are still extinct. And there is zero connection today. what illyrian traits were you expecting to witness in today's albanian culture? what other present day people have uninterrupted links to their predecessors from 2400 years ago? do greeks still offer libations to the gods? does the practice of human sacrifice still carry on? all ancient people and cultures are extinct generally speaking because we have evolved, i'm not sure what you are expecting to see. anyway, albanians speak of illyrians in a historical sense, to be an albanian is not the same as being an illyrian of course, we view them as our ancestors that contributed to us being here but an albanian today is much more than an illyrian.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 8, 2012 4:45:20 GMT -5
connecting two non-existent entities should be considered a bad practice. lol
In the region only 3 big civilizations existed in this chronological order : Greeks-Romans-Slavs/Serbs.
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atdhetar
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tonight we dine in hell!
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 8, 2012 5:49:27 GMT -5
people with limited intellectual capacity and questionable mental stability who have no expertise on any given topic posting on boards should be a bad practise.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 8, 2012 6:04:06 GMT -5
^^^ repetitive bot troll detected.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 8, 2012 7:03:27 GMT -5
connecting two non-existent entities should be considered a bad practice. lol In the region only 3 big civilizations existed in this chronological order : Greeks-Romans-Slavs/Serbs. Exactly, where were the Shqiptar-Albs? Never to be seen until the end of the 11th century.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 8, 2012 7:06:26 GMT -5
You guys are misunderstanding something, Albanians are indeed the descendants of the Illyrians, its just that most of the land they live on is not theirs. The origin of the Albanians is between the Mirdita valley, this can be proven with toponyms. even If so, the Illyrians are still extinct. And there is zero connection today. There was a synthetic connection made by the Austrians in 1912
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 8, 2012 7:12:13 GMT -5
connecting two non-existent entities should be considered a bad practice. lol In the region only 3 big civilizations existed in this chronological order : Greeks-Romans-Slavs/Serbs. Exactly, where were the Shqiptar-Albs? Never to be seen until the end of the 11th century. man their freaking wiki talks about ..... 1400 AD not 11th AD!!! LOL.... I wouldn't be surprised if they came along with the turks from central asia...
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 8, 2012 7:29:11 GMT -5
^ Brate, some actually do believe that is the case, why do you think Turks called Albanians *Arnuati* (the ones who haven't returned), Turkish historians knew something about these Shqiptar-Albs
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 8, 2012 7:31:03 GMT -5
Doesn't it show how much these people are just an INVENTED nation!.....their purpose was to be a barrier towards Slavic people, especially toward Serbia, this is the essence for the creation of the Shqiptarian-Alb nation in 1912 by Austria!
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 8, 2012 8:51:59 GMT -5
novi, you come across as a very cultured and travelled man
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 8, 2012 18:37:44 GMT -5
Pyrros ....read this greek ...I cant understand this font ....tell us what it says about Illyrians and Albanians Constantine Manasses (Greek: Κωνσταντῖνος Μανασσῆς; c. 1130 - c. 1187) was a Byzantine chronicler who flourished in the 12th century during the reign of Manuel I Komnenos (1143-1180). He was the author of a chronicle or historical synopsis of events from the creation of the world to the end of the reign of Nikephoros Botaneiates (1081), sponsored by Irene Komnene, the emperor's sister-in-law. It consists of about 7000 lines in the so-called political verse. We a need a greek who can translate this for witnessing ...what I am getting from my sources is that he states that Albanian are Illyrians
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