rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 11, 2012 16:25:33 GMT -5
serbian and greek mindset is that Albanians are not Illyrians ....
with that mindset I cannot help explain to you or others ...it doesnt equate or want to equate in your and other minds ....
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Post by uz on Oct 11, 2012 16:26:07 GMT -5
if serbs were o that fertile land first there would not be 2 millllion albs in kosova alone /90% of the population 2 million !!?? HAHAHAHAHA Systematic ethnic-cleansing of Serbs in the reason for the population demographics we see today. albania barely has 3 million, the lowest population in the Balkans..... that says something. All those foreigners in kosovo came from albania... FACT.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 16:27:37 GMT -5
if serbs were o that fertile land first there would not be 2 millllion albs in kosova alone /90% of the population Not sure what you are asking, answer my question first.
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Post by uz on Oct 11, 2012 16:27:49 GMT -5
serbian and greek mindset is that Albanians are not Illyrians .... with that mindset I cannot help explain to you or others ...it doesnt equate or want to equate in your and other minds .... omg.... do you on purpose mis-read what we say here? Firstly, you ARE NOT Illyrian... IF anything you are their descendants. You cannot claim their legacy, you don't even know it. You found out about it barely 100 years ago. using your logic - Do the Irish have claim in the Balkans? .. descendants of the Celts.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 11, 2012 16:28:47 GMT -5
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Post by uz on Oct 11, 2012 16:30:05 GMT -5
alb ter . com c'mon man, you can do better than that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 16:30:11 GMT -5
serbian and greek mindset is that Albanians are not Illyrians .... with that mindset I cannot help explain to you or others ...it doesnt equate or want to equate in your and other minds .... No you are just being stubborn, I do agree with the Illyrian theory 100%, you are Illyrian, congratulations. Maybe your ancestors roamed the lands of Kosovo way back when, but hey, during the middle ages, there were no Albanians in Kosovo, only Slavs.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 11, 2012 16:36:52 GMT -5
serbian and greek mindset is that Albanians are not Illyrians .... with that mindset I cannot help explain to you or others ...it doesnt equate or want to equate in your and other minds .... omg.... do you on purpose mis-read what we say here? Firstly, you ARE NOT Illyrian... IF anything you are their descendants. You cannot claim their legacy, you don't even know it. You found out about it barely 100 years ago. using your logic - Do the Irish have claim in the Balkans? .. descendants of the Celts. thanks
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 11, 2012 16:41:09 GMT -5
by the same token we have no evidence of serbs ever having been forced out of kosova and albanians invading their space? there is no recorded chronicle of that, there aren't only serb toponyms in kosova for fuck's sake, we know that there was a war in kosova in 1389 but we don't know that there were albanians moving into kosova territory in 16'th, 17'th centuary? that is not plausible to me....there is also no mention of serbs being driven out of their alleged livelyhoods,
of course there is a serbian dimension to kosova, no-one is denying that, of course history has intertwined and there is certainly a case to say that at one point albs and slavs used to live alongside each other and during the many decades and centuries of dominion serbs left an inprint in kosova, i see nothing inconsistent with colony-type conquests elsewhere in the world.
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Post by uz on Oct 11, 2012 16:43:19 GMT -5
it comes down to ottomans^ ... litteraly. See?
And this is where the debate can go anywhere.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 16:49:20 GMT -5
by the same token we have no evidence of serbs ever having been forced out of kosova and albanians invading their space? there is no recorded chronicle of that, there aren't only serb toponyms in kosova for f**k's sake, we know that there was a war in kosova in 1389 but we don't know that there were albanians moving into kosova territory in 16'th, 17'th centuary? that is not plausible to me....there is also no mention of serbs being driven out of their alleged livelyhoods, of course there is a serbian dimension to kosova, no-one is denying that, of course history has intertwined and there is certainly a case to say that at one point albs and slavs used to live alongside each other and during the many decades and centuries of dominion serbs left an inprint in kosova, i see nothing inconsistent with colony-type conquests elsewhere in the world. Atdhetar, look at the culture of the Kosovo Albanians, identical to those of the Malsors, this is because they migrated out, very much like most Himariot Albanians can trace their ancestry to Mirdita.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 16:49:58 GMT -5
if serbs were o that fertile land first there would not be 2 millllion albs in kosova alone /90% of the population ever heard of the Arnautashi?
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 11, 2012 16:53:48 GMT -5
ok, enlighten me, ottomans were an adavanced empire, they recorded everything, they had some of the best field narrators at the time, if you rummage through their archives you will come across stories of local skirmishes, don't you think they would have recorded or at the very least mention smth fleetingly about the mass invasion of kosova by albanians and the subsequent subjugation of serbs by albs?
never mind the ottomans, why isn't there anything in serbian history to depict this mass expulsion of serbs, it just doesn't add up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 16:54:05 GMT -5
What about the fact that Tito invited nearly 300,000 Albanians into Kosovo?
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Post by uz on Oct 11, 2012 16:55:55 GMT -5
What about the fact that Tito invited nearly 300,000 Albanians into Kosovo? While not-allowing Serbian refugees to return after the world war.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 16:59:06 GMT -5
ok, enlighten me, ottomans were an adavanced empire, they recorded everything, they had some of the best field narrators at the time, if you rummage through their archives you will come across stories of local skirmishes, don't you think they would have recorded or at the very least mention smth fleetingly about the mass invasion of kosova by albanians and the subsequent subjugation of serbs by albs? never mind the ottomans, why isn't there anything in serbian history to depict this mass expulsion of serbs, it just doesn't add up. The first Ottoman count of ethnic background in Kosovo was in 1487, the data the defter collected supports very much what I am saying, 1487 defter recorded: Vučitrn district: 16,729 Christian households (412 in Pristina and Vučitrn) 117 Muslim households (94 in Pristina and 83 in rural areas) Ipek (Peć) district: City of Ipek 121 Christian households 33 Muslim households Suho Grlo and Metohija: 131 Christian households of which 52% in Suho Grlo were Serbs Donja Klina - 50% Serbs Dečani - 64% Serbs Rural areas: 6,124 Christian households (99%) 55 Moslem households (1%) now, you might say "Christians refers to anybody" but, there are only a couple Albanian toponyms in all of Kosovo, which really means that they have only lived originally in not too many villages.
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 11, 2012 17:02:29 GMT -5
Atdhetar, look at the culture of the Kosovo Albanians, identical to those of the Malsors, this is because they migrated out, very much like most Himariot Albanians can trace their ancestry to Mirdita. the kosovar culture is not identical to that of malesor, the sorrounding areas have a certain affinity and the misconception arises due to the similiarites in the accent but culturally they are not the same, i agree that a lot of malesors migrated out but you can not attribute the presence of albanians as far as presheva valley to malsors expanding out, there is undeniable albanian presence, uninterrupted. there is a 95% albanian majority in kosova, where in the world have you seen a dispute of this nature where the 5% minority stakes historical claim to a land? its unfathomable to me how there could be a migration of that magnitude........and there not being any records of it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 17:10:54 GMT -5
Its funny because one of my best friends is from Preshevo, Albanian yes. The only explanation that I have is that neighboring Albs, who had lived in the valley next to the Preshevo valley, settled in. So, Albanian presence in Preshevo is probably newer than in Kosovo proper. there is also still a large Serb presence in that area as well.
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atdhetar
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Post by atdhetar on Oct 11, 2012 17:27:36 GMT -5
that defter does not tell us much i am afraid, it doesn't distinguish between ethnicities,
i think there was a serb presence in kosova since very early on but their numbers are grossly inflated, the reason why serbs are obssessed with it is because of the battle of 1389 and given the nationalistic connotation they have always considered it as a mecca, they had it under their rule for so long and it is natural they exerted their influence, they were far more advanced in terms of literature, organization, social status.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 17:32:46 GMT -5
Believe whatever you want, its not a problem to me, but one last thing... Take a good look at this map. Look at where the Serb settlements are located, what does this map tell you?
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