trank
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by trank on Jul 11, 2013 1:16:00 GMT -5
Greetings! I've decided to write here, because i'm looking for informations about south Slavs (i'm reenactor, trying to reconstruct one of them). So, i'm looking for any info - iconography which shows slavs (i've already found this: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Bulgars.jpg), their clothing, arms etc. Also photos / drawings of archeological finds referred to slavs on Balkan territory). Or any info helping me to make truly good reconstruction Prefered dating - from VIIc. to Xc. Please, spare a moment It's most important for me, associated to my Slavic origins Unfortunately - south slavic languages are barrier, which makes my own search quite difficult.
|
|
|
Post by Balkaneros on Jul 11, 2013 13:43:43 GMT -5
|
|
trank
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by trank on Jul 12, 2013 0:51:59 GMT -5
Huge thanks! I'm a reenactor. So searching for something as less dogmatic as possible, what show in more specific way how did balkan Slavs really look like (like these painting of Bulgars slaying byzantine soldiers from Menologion). In Poland we have a lot of reenactors of West & East slavia, but still i haven't heard about reliable reconstruction of South Slav (sorry for using such simplifications). As a result of it - sources are unedited, uncollected, spreaded "no one knows". Finding any clue or single drawing/photo of any (proper dated) excavation - is just like candy So i don't stop looking - for me is't also a bit personal matter, my family origins leads from Balkans (some of my ancestors, probably, fled from Bulgaria before turks about XVIII/XIX c. ). So it would be a tribute for my own history. And i choose times, when divisions and quarrels "between relatives" weren't so violent and deep. Greetings! Edit: Could you tell me when these paintings were made? Especially first, of Jovan Vladimir.
|
|
|
Post by Balkaneros on Jul 12, 2013 15:27:46 GMT -5
I personally can't tell you much about South Slavic warrior/battle traditions such as armor and weaponary, much of this history isn't documented or it is said doesn't exist anymore. I am not aware of any artist depicting how they once looked.
Keep in mind their tactic for battle was guerrila, they were never organized in terms of fleets, brigades, and heiarchy. so weaponary was probably basic as it gets, they were known not-to have armor, mainly sheilds and spears. I would imagine they looked more or less the same as the other Slavs.
It terms of "how they look" (features), you should stay away from icons, iconography tends to follow a certain set of rules in order to be finished. From what I understood you wanted to see Southern Slavic Saints, in iconography.
If you're looking for how Southern Slavic warriors looked like in battle/preparation, unfortunately I won't be able to help you there. I am sure you can find some relics online belonging to a museaum such as helmets, hatchets and sheilds and some designs associated to them as guesses.
In his work De Bellis, the Byzintine writer Procopius portrays the ancient Slavs as unusually tall and strong, with a tan complexion and reddish-blonde hair. He describes them as living a rugged and primitive life, dwelling in huts, often distant from one another and frequently moving from place to place. Politically they were not ruled by a single leader, but for a long time lived in a "democracy" (or anarchy). The Slavs are described as being resentful of any attempts to rule them and resisted any attempts violently. The ancient Slavs believed in many Gods, but Procopius suggests they believed in one, perhaps supreme god. He is often identified as Perun, the god of thunder and lightning. Procopius describes this belief , saying the Slavs, “acknowledge that one god, creator of lightning, is the only lord of all: to him do they sacrifice an ox and all sacrificial animals”. Today the word Perun means thunder or lightning bolt in several Slavic languages. Procopius further describes the ancient Slavs as going into battle on foot, charging straight at their enemy, armed with spears and small shields, but without armor.
www.ancientmilitary.com/ancient-slavs.htmThe invading Slavs penetrated through the Balkans and all the way into the Peloponnese of Southern Greece. Despite Byzantine accounts of the ancient Slavs "pillaging" and "looting", many indigenous peoples voluntarily assimilated with the Slavs. The Slavs lack of an organized, central authority actually hastened the process of willful Slavicisation. The Roman subjects of the territories settled by the Slavs slowly became assimilated with the body of Slavs. All was not Harmonious however, the Slavs laid siege to Thessaloniki from 614-616 AD. John, Archbishop of Thessaloniki wrote the following regarding the attacks, "In the field by the holy temple, a man saw a not very numerous barbarian army (as we counted them together up to five thousands), but very strong, as it consisted of selected experienced fighters... and until late in the night they fought, and the people of the victor [the protectors of Thessaloniki] exposed themselves to great risk while they attacked and retreated, because as said, they had the selected flowers of the entire Slavic people for their opponents. Finally, when help arrived, the Barbarians were expelled and they retreated." However, in the same text, The Miracles of St. Demetrius of Thessaloniki, it is recorded that in 877 “ all the Thessaloniki people spoke pure Slavic". The Slavs also were involved in sieges against Constantinople itself, along with a collision of Bulgars, Avars and Gepids. </EM> (same link above) ps; I do not know the exact date when that icon of Jovan Vladimir that icon was made, however icons of him were being painted shorty after his death in 1016. A Greek depiction of Jovan Vladimir made in 1690.
|
|
trank
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by trank on Jul 16, 2013 12:32:26 GMT -5
Once again - huge thanks! I'll repeat myself, but this is a most unpleasant barrier - lack of access. Iconography, excavations - exist, but 95% of this knowledge lays rotten in, unused for ages, "analog" libraries, institutes, universities. For someone who, like me, doesn't have possibility to get there physically - obtaining anything it's a lottery. It depends on finding "peoples people" who has time and will to do this instead of me Don't get wrong - i like spending hours in library, or on internet searches But how i can show that i appreciate? I feel that "thanks" is not enough - but i'm unable even to invite you for a beer! Remember me if you went to Warsaw anytime. It'll be a pleasure to meet you.
|
|
|
Post by Balkaneros on Jul 19, 2013 18:23:58 GMT -5
Once again - huge thanks! I'll repeat myself, but this is a most unpleasant barrier - lack of access. Iconography, excavations - exist, but 95% of this knowledge lays rotten in, unused for ages, "analog" libraries, institutes, universities. For someone who, like me, doesn't have possibility to get there physically - obtaining anything it's a lottery. It depends on finding "peoples people" who has time and will to do this instead of me Don't get wrong - i like spending hours in library, or on internet searches But how i can show that i appreciate? I feel that "thanks" is not enough - but i'm unable even to invite you for a beer! Remember me if you went to Warsaw anytime. It'll be a pleasure to meet you. Yes I understand there's barriers when researching this subject, I myself have tried. There many reasons for this one of them being is that we didn't have a writing system to document, so all that is left is piecing the pieces together ourselves with the few facts that we have. My view on how "they used to be" is based on information we have pertaining to their lifestyle. You should maybe check out; www.slavorum.com - a pure Slav based website, if you haven't already. It was a pleasure trying to help you out as long as it did something. If you come across links or further readings on this subject pls PM me, or by all means post in the forum. Thanks! for the invite and all the best to you.
|
|