Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 2:50:16 GMT -5
As far as I know Slavs in Macedonia lived in isolated villages. When I say isolated I mean most residents didn't had interest in neighboring villages and didn't much care about national history. Naturally some contacts with their neighboring villages existed. Next, every modern nation in the Balkans spread by assimilating neighboring population, which is kind of how things worked everywhere in the world, however Macedonian Slavs are some of those European people who didn't had built up national identity for longest time. For me, it doesn't mean all of them were Serbs or Bulgarians. In fact most of them were members of other Slavic tribes, which aren't neither Serbian nor Bulgarian. That's true! However, this mass of people were occupied longer than other Slavic regions. Ulf, these people are Serbs, like it or not. There were some Serbs in Macedonia. Serbia took Macedonia after the Balkan wars, but at that time Serbs were not more than 10% of all Slavs there. Today, population is mixed there as majority of those bilingual or trilingual settlements that were living there side by side with other non-Slavic Orthodox Christian population (mostly some Vlachs) became Macedonians, ie. mixed. This was intensified by the communists. You had the same thing in Eastern Serbia and Kosovo. That happened in the last 100 to 150 years, depending at the location. Its sort of a taboo, and partially because population in Macedonia was very uneducated thanks to Ottomans, but just a couple of settlements managed to successfully repel, and thus to preserve their identity, either as Serbs, or Macedonian Slavs, or Bulgarians. So you see why I don't agree with you.
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 12, 2019 17:55:01 GMT -5
All Slavs were Serbs, And all whites were Slavs. I'm in the opinion Slavs originated from the Balkans, heck, Haplogroup R1a was found to be oldest in Balkans, but at the same time haplogroup I is the only one native to Europe which mutated in the Balkan Peninsula! The highest concentration of I is in Bosnia and SARDinia, unfortunately for my Kosovo EV13 dominates (African).
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 12, 2019 18:04:15 GMT -5
That's true! However, this mass of people were occupied longer than other Slavic regions. Ulf, these people are Serbs, like it or not. There were some Serbs in Macedonia. Serbia took Macedonia after the Balkan wars, but at that time Serbs were not more than 10% of all Slavs there. Today, population is mixed there as majority of those bilingual or trilingual settlements that were living there side by side with other non-Slavic Orthodox Christian population (mostly some Vlachs) became Macedonians, ie. mixed. This was intensified by the communists. You had the same thing in Eastern Serbia and Kosovo. That happened in the last 100 to 150 years, depending at the location. Its sort of a taboo, and partially because population in Macedonia was very uneducated thanks to Ottomans, but just a couple of settlements managed to successfully repel, and thus to preserve their identity, either as Serbs, or Macedonian Slavs, or Bulgarians. So you see why I don't agree with you. More realistic of the last 130 years, yes this is right, to a degree. I'm looking at a 'historical' perspective, the ancient crystal ball. However, if we do analyse from 1870 onwards, you have to admit, the Serbian identity in Vardar Serbia had taken the largest blow, families who outwardly classified themselves as Serbs were torn between the Patriarchate and the Exarchate.
|
|
Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
|
Post by Sokol on Jan 13, 2019 17:32:32 GMT -5
I agree, only the isolationism was artificially created by Ottomans, why? Because Ottomans preferred a patient and submissive Bulgar than a rebellious Serb, so they sort to train them through these means into a Bulgar like mass. As far as I know Slavs in Macedonia lived in isolated villages. When I say isolated I mean most residents didn't had interest in neighboring villages and didn't much care about national history. Naturally some contacts with their neighboring villages existed. Next, every modern nation in the Balkans spread by assimilating neighboring population, which is kind of how things worked everywhere in the world, however Macedonian Slavs are some of those European people who didn't had built up national identity for longest time. For me, it doesn't mean all of them were Serbs or Bulgarians. In fact most of them were members of other Slavic tribes, which aren't neither Serbian nor Bulgarian. Macedonian national identity began to rear it's head in the 19th century in the form of Macedonism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Early_MacedonistsIt began as a competitor to Bulgarism, Hellenism and Serbianism in Macedonia. It didn't really make severe inroads until the Comintern decided to support the cause in the early 20th century. VMRO itself began to tear itself apart through internal battles over the left and right forces and hundreds were killed in Bulgaria through infighting. Macedonism finally got it's state support after WW2 though the creation of the Macedonian republic in Yugoslavia and was able to affirm the Macedonian identity ever since. In Vardar Macedonia Bulgarism and Serbism lost out to Macedonism and rightfully so.
|
|
|
Post by Pyrros on Jan 14, 2019 4:57:21 GMT -5
And now NATO-ism (which will kill any Slavic leftovers in the region) will take over.
|
|
Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
|
Post by Sokol on Jan 14, 2019 19:23:16 GMT -5
And now NATO-ism (which will kill any Slavic leftovers in the region) will take over. Yeah, about that...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 2:10:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Pyrros on Jan 15, 2019 2:30:00 GMT -5
And now NATO-ism (which will kill any Slavic leftovers in the region) will take over. Yeah, about that...
pre-90 does not count. also photoshop does not count.
|
|
|
Post by Pyrros on Jan 15, 2019 2:30:49 GMT -5
sssssss nemoj probudite Sokola.
|
|
Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
|
Post by Sokol on Jan 15, 2019 17:08:39 GMT -5
Here is the clause in the constitution of 2001, which remains unchanged: Now, Hungarian is an official language in Vojvodina for some time now. What does this mean??
|
|
|
Post by Duško on Jan 15, 2019 20:08:40 GMT -5
Long story short it was Serbians who liberated this area from Turk. ASs they planned to stay there theu were bringing colonists naturally.
It was Serb held Macedonia that separate republic in Tito's Yugoslavia.
Same republic that today has become independent State. Serbs have no designs anymore as far as I know.
Having such animosity today against Serbs is illogical.
I can understand animosity towards: - Bulgaria ( because they do not recognize your ethnicity but see you as Bulgarian) - Greece (because they will never accept you with that name) - Albania (because of open expansionist views towards your territory)
But towards Serbians today is basically stupid -As they recognize you as a nation and as a state and have no
expansionist designs on R.o.Macedonia.
This is the unfortunate reality when bringing equality among those who are in fact not equal. This was Kralj Aleksandar's crime to the Serbian people, due to his internationalist connections he created the travesty we knows as the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Sacrificing Serbdom for égalité, fraternité et liberté as the goal, sound familiar? The pillar of freemasonry, the root of the French revolution. The cause that brought Europe to its knees.
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 16, 2019 2:57:28 GMT -5
As far as I know Slavs in Macedonia lived in isolated villages. When I say isolated I mean most residents didn't had interest in neighboring villages and didn't much care about national history. Naturally some contacts with their neighboring villages existed. Next, every modern nation in the Balkans spread by assimilating neighboring population, which is kind of how things worked everywhere in the world, however Macedonian Slavs are some of those European people who didn't had built up national identity for longest time. For me, it doesn't mean all of them were Serbs or Bulgarians. In fact most of them were members of other Slavic tribes, which aren't neither Serbian nor Bulgarian. Macedonian national identity began to rear it's head in the 19th century in the form of Macedonism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Early_MacedonistsIt began as a competitor to Bulgarism, Hellenism and Serbianism in Macedonia. It didn't really make severe inroads until the Comintern decided to support the cause in the early 20th century. VMRO itself began to tear itself apart through internal battles over the left and right forces and hundreds were killed in Bulgaria through infighting. Macedonism finally got it's state support after WW2 though the creation of the Macedonian republic in Yugoslavia and was able to affirm the Macedonian identity ever since. In Vardar Macedonia Bulgarism and Serbism lost out to Macedonism and rightfully so. Macedonianism is a Serbianism! You know the name Makedonija has no meaning in Prilep dialect, while it has in 'Serbian'. Bulgarianism became stronger through the Porte and Ottomans with historical confusion between Bolgaroi and Boulgaroi etc.....
|
|
|
Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 16, 2019 3:01:24 GMT -5
Yeah, about that...
pre-90 does not count. also photoshop does not count.
Rothschilds and Rockerfellers are powerful, but in reality, the Vatican and the more powerful Black Old European Nobility are the kings of kings!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2019 7:46:21 GMT -5
Here is the clause in the constitution of 2001, which remains unchanged: Now, Hungarian is an official language in Vojvodina for some time now. What does this mean?? Macedonia has American Jesus:
|
|
|
Post by Pyrros on Jan 16, 2019 12:33:56 GMT -5
Long story short it was Serbians who liberated this area from Turk. ASs they planned to stay there theu were bringing colonists naturally.
It was Serb held Macedonia that separate republic in Tito's Yugoslavia.
Same republic that today has become independent State. Serbs have no designs anymore as far as I know.
Having such animosity today against Serbs is illogical.
I can understand animosity towards: - Bulgaria ( because they do not recognize your ethnicity but see you as Bulgarian) - Greece (because they will never accept you with that name) - Albania (because of open expansionist views towards your territory)
But towards Serbians today is basically stupid -As they recognize you as a nation and as a state and have no
expansionist designs on R.o.Macedonia.
This is the unfortunate reality when bringing equality among those who are in fact not equal. This was Kralj Aleksandar's crime to the Serbian people, due to his internationalist connections he created the travesty we knows as the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Sacrificing Serbdom for égalité, fraternité et liberté as the goal, sound familiar? The pillar of freemasonry, the root of the French revolution. The cause that brought Europe to its knees.
You got certain things right about the known international "forces" that drove both jugo I and II and certain revolutions before and after, but I'd like you to focus on the south slavs in particular : you mean south slavs are not equal to one another? care to elaborate? ever been to Bulgaria? or Bosnia/Croatia? Is there any specific element weaker / stronger to any of those ppl vs Serbs?
From my (vast) personal experience, for all basic matters, there is absolutely no difference.
|
|
|
Post by Duško on Jan 16, 2019 21:52:33 GMT -5
This is the unfortunate reality when bringing equality among those who are in fact not equal. This was Kralj Aleksandar's crime to the Serbian people, due to his internationalist connections he created the travesty we knows as the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Sacrificing Serbdom for égalité, fraternité et liberté as the goal, sound familiar? The pillar of freemasonry, the root of the French revolution. The cause that brought Europe to its knees.
You got certain things right about the known international "forces" that drove both jugo I and II and certain revolutions before and after, but I'd like you to focus on the south slavs in particular : you mean south slavs are not equal to one another? care to elaborate? ever been to Bulgaria? or Bosnia/Croatia? Is there any specific element weaker / stronger to any of those ppl vs Serbs?
From my (vast) personal experience, for all basic matters, there is absolutely no difference.
No, south slavs are not equal to one another because we are not the same. How can you compare Slavic Macedonians to Serbs? One group is a nation and state builder, the other not at all. I'm not talking about nice good natured guys who happen to be Bulgarian or Mak, I'm talking about aptitude, tendencies and conscious will.
|
|
|
Post by Pyrros on Jan 17, 2019 1:03:41 GMT -5
May I ask again, ever been to BULGARIA?
EVER WORKED IN BULGARIA?
From my experience Serbs (from Serbia) have a lot to learn. And Serbs (from Bosnia) have a lot to learn from Serbs (from Serbia).
The same cliches that Serbs from Bosnia say about Srbijanci are exactly the same cliches that Serbs from Serbia say about Bulgarians.
Therefore and for 1000 other reasons, I think this kind of micro-nationalism is sterile, harmful and deadlocked.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 1:54:06 GMT -5
Make no mistake, all European countries but Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia and Moldova are ahead of us. Macedonia is on par with us today but in the past it was always lagging behind, and other three are behind but in the past were third world in comparison to us. All others are better off.
|
|
|
Post by Pyrros on Jan 17, 2019 4:06:01 GMT -5
Make no mistake, all European countries but Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia and Moldova are ahead of us. Macedonia is on par with us today but in the past it was always lagging behind, and other three are behind but in the past were third world in comparison to us. All others are better off.
exactly as they wanted. To the ounce and the gram.
anyway, this is not what I meant. I mean something much deeper than contemporary politics.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 4:27:21 GMT -5
Make no mistake, all European countries but Bosnia, Albania, Macedonia and Moldova are ahead of us. Macedonia is on par with us today but in the past it was always lagging behind, and other three are behind but in the past were third world in comparison to us. All others are better off.
exactly as they wanted. To the ounce and the gram.
anyway, this is not what I meant. I mean something much deeper than contemporary politics.
21st century, half of Belgrade doesn't have sewers. Biggest small business in Serbia is pumping out the septic tanks.
|
|