donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 31, 2008 19:18:46 GMT -5
I was skimming through the biography of a notable Albanian patriot and intellectual named Naum P.Bredhi, better known as Naum P.Veqilharxhi (1797-1846). Originally from Vithkuq, Albania, he also spent some time of his life in Romania. Among other things, the biography in question mentions the role of the Albanians in 1821, when Ypsilantis' and Vladimirescu's partisans rose in rebellion. I thought it would be interesting for some of you Romanians to read about this as well. It mentions, as a source, the book of A.S. Pushkin called "The Captain's Daughter" (a collection of novels from real life events), where among others, he also speaks of the Albanians or 'Arnauts' of Romania and the "anti-feudal" rising of 1821. It says that as early as the year of 1817, small guerrilla unit of 300 men operated, attacking Turkish garrisons, burning Phanariote estates. They were headed by the Albanian Kërxhali, Serbian Svjetko and Romanian Mihallaq (Rom. sp.?). ("The Captain's Daughter" p.97). When Vladimirescu firstly rose, he did so accompanied by 25 Arnauts (Albanians), according to I. Fotino. The same is confirmed by above mentioned Pushkin in a letter of his adressed to V.L. Davidov. In the fightings that occured with the Turks entering Moldavia, Panajot Ll. Veqilharxhi fought together with his fifteen year old son, Konstandin (Naum's brother), on the rebels' side. Panajot was killed later on, and Konstandin Veqilharxhi was internated to the Russian village of Orgejevo. Pushkin writes, further on, about the battle against the Turks. I'll translate following passages from Albanian; Naum Veqilharxhi is also mentioned as a member of these activities by Viktor Papacostea ( Le participation de l'ecrivain albanais Vechilhardji a la Revolucion de 1821). The same author goes on to say " the greatness of this noble people, their bloodshed, has gone unnoticed or has been claimed by others, because in Albania there was a lack of historiography ...". A certain Nicolaj Todorov also mentions following; After the Revolution's failure, the Albanians were persecuted by both the Turks and the boyars. Many were killed, oftenly beheaded, and new laws were passed that prohibited Albanians from coming into the country to settle. This because they had displayed much resistance. P:s After this. Naum P. Veqilharxhi worked hard to emancipate the Albanians and introduce Albanian schools and litterature which were prohibited by Ottoman officials at the request and assistance of the Phanariotes. And as a result. Naum P. Veqilharxhi was poisoned in '46 by the Greek Patriarchate, despite his services to the Philiki Etairia.
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 10:35:22 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. Arnauts were mercenaries and they rarely fought for ideologies, but rather for personal benefits. Sometimes they fought for one faction, sometimes for another. They were known for staying loyal to their proteges. They were Albanian, but were nothing as the Albanians of today. Even if they offered their services for money, I can't imagine an Arnaut watching other men insulting the women of other nations by calling them whores. He would've acted upon them: directly or indirectly. I guess they were real Albanians, and those who are the opposite of them, are some shameful bastards. That includes those who just stand by and watch...
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 1, 2008 11:05:43 GMT -5
I think you're wrong Anittas. Yes, Albanians or 'Arnauts' were reputed warriors. And yes, they were mercenaries in various armies. But to say they didn't fight for some type of ideal in this uprising is not entirely correct. Would it not be more wise, if they were pure materialists, to serve the wealthy boyars or side with the Turks, rather than aid poor peasants?
And few modern nations are alike their ancestors.
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 11:24:45 GMT -5
Let's make a comparision between the Arnauts and the Cossacks. They both sided with the peasantry against the boyars. Why did they do it? Because in one way or another, it served them a purpose. When it comes to the Romanian uprising, perhaps the Arnauts chose to side with the one faction they believed would serve them best. Afterall, it's one thing to be the enemy of the boyars, and quite another as the enemy of the people.
Now, as I've said: I believe they upheld some sort of code of conduct. I've given you an example of what they wouldn't have tolerated, but it seems you've ignored that part of my response.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 1, 2008 11:35:25 GMT -5
Well, if you reason like that, nobody fights for ideologies. I think this is as close as it gets. And yes, Albanians were quite chivalrous when it came to women. I try to maintain that type of chivalry as much as I can in this world. But doubtless it is very hard. The Albanians of those days weren't unique only when compared to the modern world, but also when compared to their contemporaries
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Post by julius on Apr 1, 2008 12:07:10 GMT -5
Albs at that time would act the same as today. Nobody can say anything about our women. We dont tolerate that. At that time a man could get killed. At this time u get coursed. The difference is all about the type of confrontation. In the past face to face and now everyone behind a pc.
About Romania, we had a small but vital minority on those years. Our national anthem was firstly sang in Bucharest and had a romanian composer.
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 12:08:05 GMT -5
I think it's sad you won't speak against the Albanian members who say such things. Sorry for hijacking your thread, but there was no other way to get your attention. I've pleaded to you for years to commit yourself to this cause, but you've ignored me all along. WTF is wrong with you?!
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Post by julius on Apr 1, 2008 12:23:35 GMT -5
First thing first is that we dont trust u. U just put your sorry a$$ everywhere. And than u complain why are u being fcuked. I personally cant forgive u using the term "turkoalbanian". And the second mistake u make is that u mess with EVERY alb. U just cant distinguish them one from the other, can u?
Anyway, from now on, I'll have a word on the matter. Besa.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 1, 2008 12:44:09 GMT -5
Oh shut up already Anittas. You've insulted my and others' nations, which also include women as well as children & elderlies. Yet I didn't delete/edit your posts ... nor do I have time to act big brother all the time. Just because you felt hit because they targeted Romanians specifically, doesn't mean you're innocent or that this is the only problem in this forum. People will express themselves ... and when they feel provoked by you, they will respond negatively. That's as obvious as gravitation. You're a cleaver guy; you should be able to figure it out without me lecturing you. Me 'yelling' at them or editing/deleting them won't solve the problem.
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 12:47:43 GMT -5
Donnie, don't act stupid. You know very well the difference between an honest fight and hitting under the belt. There are things you don't take on to insult: women and family. I've never insulted people by touching those two subjects. Not in the 5 years I've been here. And you've never been a big brother to those skinny kids. Don't you see that they are in need of a father figure? Or a big brother to lead them on the right path?
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Post by c0gnate on Apr 1, 2008 12:56:23 GMT -5
Donnie, don't act stupid. You know very well the difference between an honest fight and hitting under the belt. There are things you don't take on to insult: women and family. What about cats?
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Post by diurpaneus on Apr 1, 2008 13:05:07 GMT -5
despite his services to the Philiki Etairia. Guess what? Philiki Eteria murdered Tudor Vladimirescu, cut his body to pieces and threw them in a latrine.
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Post by c0gnate on Apr 1, 2008 13:29:00 GMT -5
Philiki Eteria murdered Tudor Vladimirescu, cut his body to pieces and threw them in a latrine. They were interested in Greek liberation, not Vlach. How can one liberate a people that doesn't exist, as modern Greece insists?
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 13:31:36 GMT -5
No one said anything about Vlachs. Vlachs have no relevance to this thread.
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Post by c0gnate on Apr 1, 2008 13:55:57 GMT -5
Perhaps you didn't know that Vladmirescu's homeland, Oltenia, was called Little Vlachia (Kleine Wallachei) by the Austrians who had control of it in the early 18th century?
Google it, my boy. You speak English, Danish and Swedish, so German shouldn't be too hard for you.
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 14:01:44 GMT -5
Oltenia was known as Minor Wallachia long before the Austrians took over. We all know that stuff, so no need to repeat it. Yet, that pertains to Wallachians and not Vlachs.
I don't understand German.
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Post by c0gnate on Apr 1, 2008 14:30:28 GMT -5
We all know that stuff, so no need to repeat it. We? Is that you and your cat?
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Post by humbleman on Apr 1, 2008 14:31:14 GMT -5
Dijedon: insulting a nation or certain members of this forum is not the same as the glorification of the exploitation of women. Nations (and induviduals) are fairly free standing, so you have the right to protest (or insult) against their decisions if you see fit. However women who are being exploited, are being humiliated by not being allowed to express their free will, so glorification of such humiliation is deplorable. I just don't understand why you just don't get it Dijedon, but instead always try to justify by saying: "well your compatriots do this and this is why Albanians do that". Enough with this BS justifications! I will not let this go.
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Post by jerryspringer on Apr 1, 2008 14:41:58 GMT -5
My cat left me in 2004. I think she got lost.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 1, 2008 14:57:10 GMT -5
despite his services to the Philiki Etairia. Guess what? Philiki Eteria murdered Tudor Vladimirescu, cut his body to pieces and threw them in a latrine. This is because the Philiki Etairia leadership was opportunistic and wicked. They had ties with the Phanariotes, who above all wanted to Hellenize the Balkans' Orthodox population. Therefore, they couldn't stand the notion of, for instance, the emerging of Albanian schools and litterature. This is why they were involved in conspiracies against Albanian intellectuals, such as above mentioned Naum Veqilharxhi or Theodor Haxhi Filipi. I didn't say it is OK or justifiable. I merely pinpointed the fact that Anittas isn't the right person to demand retribution. Personally, I do not sympathize with the glorification of pimps and prostitution. But I don't have the time and energy to be on constant alert about these things. And about "freestanding" nations & individuals and Anittas insulting their "decisions"; you're wrong. Anittas has gone beyond that, taking it to a phenotypical/racial level. That is even worse; that is called racism, and does not exclude women either. Perhaps you find that OK, but I don't.
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