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Post by Kubrat on Oct 27, 2007 15:51:49 GMT -5
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Post by Ivanov on Oct 28, 2007 13:43:27 GMT -5
Another 40 busses arrived in the night, and more today. They continue because someone allows them to continue. These 5-1000 people from Turkey are enough for DPS to win the elections in Kurdjali with a very slim majority. On the other hand lots of the Bulgarians don't vote at all, which means that Turks in Kurdjali (DPS's fortress) have already gone bellow 50%, they rely on dirty tricks to keep the status quo, but this will not help them for long if they face a stronger and united opposition.
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Post by Kubrat on Oct 28, 2007 16:34:39 GMT -5
dpc already won a 53% majority in Kurdjali. i thought they made a law that said that you would have to come from an EU country or be in Bulgaria for 3 of the last 6 months before an election? or was that only for the national elections. ...seriously, with all the day time shootings of ex-mafiosos can't someone just shoot dogan.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 30, 2007 5:02:40 GMT -5
Yeap, if there were no name changes and things like that in the 80's, there wouldn't be any kind of DPC or MRF. Movement For Rights And Freedom (as it's called) is not an ethnic parti. All kind of ppl are members, halft Bulgarians and the other halfth are ethnic turks - all Bulgarian citizen! No matter if they live in EU or non EU country, they should have right to vote!!
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Post by Kubrat on Oct 30, 2007 18:12:29 GMT -5
exactly, BUlgarian citizens...not ppl who live in another country and are shipped down just so that they can vote.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 30, 2007 18:54:49 GMT -5
But they are Bulgarian citizen as all others! They can use their rights as well as you.
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Post by Kubrat on Oct 30, 2007 22:10:34 GMT -5
they are bulgarian citizens whw have the passports and citizenship given to them by cetrain parlimentary groups and at the same time visit Bulgaria with a rarity that coincides with elections
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 31, 2007 5:19:03 GMT -5
That's not true. They've been living since many generations in BG (if not even local to certain areas). Don't talk rubbish,pls.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2007 7:31:25 GMT -5
I think the National Assembly should vote an Act prohibiting all Bulgarian citizens that live constantly abroad to vote in any elections. Why? Because only the people that live constantly in the country should have the right to vote and choose who to govern them. Its the same with the local elections. Every EUROPEAN citizen that lives PERMANENTLY in Bulgaria can vote for a mayor. So now, if I m Bulgarian that lives in France, I am allowed to vote for a mayor in the town in live permanently. I think that principle should apply to all elections in Bulgaria.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 31, 2007 7:45:14 GMT -5
I think the National Assembly should vote an Act prohibiting all Bulgarian citizens that live constantly abroad to vote in any elections. Prohibiting??! Are you a citizen of a certaing country, then you are granted all rights as a citizen! That would be the only country in the World to make such kind of stupidity. Bulgaria made it once in the 80's - the World did not know it they'd laugh or cry.. It'll be a shame doing it again.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2007 8:19:04 GMT -5
Prohibiting??! Are you a citizen of a certaing country, then you are granted all rights as a citizen! That would be the only country in the World to make such kind of stupidity. Bulgaria made it once in the 80's - the World did not know it they'd laugh or cry.. It'll be a shame doing it again. I m not talking about a law against the Turks! Or an act against them! I m talking about a logic here! According to EUROPEAN LAW, If u live in a town anywhere in the UNion u vote for the maypor of the town u live in. Why? Cause that kind of government u can feel in your everyday life. Plus it was done for the European Parliament Elections (all bg citizens who havent lived in Bulgaria for couple of months were prohibited from voting): why wouldnt it be done for the local elections? Its only natural that u have to vote for government of the place in which u live.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 31, 2007 8:35:22 GMT -5
In most countries of western Europe you cannot vote untill you do not have a citizenship of the country you permanently are living. For ex. I can't vote for any elections in Sweden if I am not a Swedish citizen first! Once you achieve a citizenship, you are granted all rights - for good. That is natural.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2007 9:16:30 GMT -5
In most countries of western Europe you cannot vote untill you do not have a citizenship of the country you permanently are living. For ex. I can't vote for any elections in Sweden if I am not a Swedish citizen first! Once you achieve a citizenship, you are granted all rights - for good. That is natural. This is not true. ×ëåí 19, àë. 1 îò Äîãîâîðà çà ñúçäàâàíå íà Åâðîïåéñêà îáùíîñò: Âñåêè ãðàæäàíèí íà Ñúþçà, æèâååù â äúðæàâà-÷ëåíêà íà êîÿòî íå å ãðàæäàíèí, èìà ïðàâî äà ãëàñóâà è äà ñå êàíäèäàòèðà â ìåñòíè èçáîðè â äúðæàâà-÷ëåíêà íà òåðèòîðèÿòà íà êîÿòî æèâåå, ïðè ñúùèòå óñëîâèÿ, êàêòî è ãðàæäàíèòå íà òàçè äúðæàâà. Translation: Article 19, paragraph 1 of the Contract, establishing European Community : Every citizen of the Union, who lives in a Member State of which he is not a citizen, shall have the right to vote and to candidate himself in a local elections in the Member state in which he lives on the same grounds, applicable to the citizens of this country. Sorry if the translation isnt good enough. So in a resume, u CAn vote and get elected in a election in Sweden, if u live in Sweden and u are Bulgarian.
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Post by yahadj on Oct 31, 2007 9:24:18 GMT -5
Ioan, if you apply that rule you will end up with relatively more votes for Turks and Gypsies. So many Bulgarians are abroad. It is true that Turks from Turkey came back to their country just to vote. Well, all the Bulgarians who went to EU for seasonal or permananet jobs could have done it too. But who is to blame if they don't care. So let those who care rule...
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2007 9:31:20 GMT -5
Well, the Bulgarians at present do not care and do not vote at all (moreso those that live abroad). I think that IF on a European Community Level its accepted that u can vote for the local government, in the town in which u permanently live, then its logical that this principle should apply to the Bulgarian local elections. At present citizens of a member state of the EU that live permanently in Bulgaria can vote and get elected in the Bulgarian local governments thanks to art. 19, para. 1 of CEC.
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Post by yahadj on Oct 31, 2007 9:43:44 GMT -5
Ioan,
I don't think the influx of Europeans would be more than Bulgarians efflux to match for the numbers of permanently living Turks...
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2007 9:53:09 GMT -5
no, no. U dont get it. I am not against Bulgarian citizen of Turkish origin voting in the elections. I am against anyone who DOESNT live in BUlgaria, though Bulgarian citizen, to vote in the elections. What I mean is: I am Bulgarian. If I choose to go in Sweden and live there permanently I would have the right to vote and get elected in the Swedish town I m living in. Then why should I have the right to vote in Bulgaria? It doesnt make sense! So the European coutries have agreed that it is so important where u live that they have given u the right to vote there. So I can not see why we dont apply this for the local elections (moreso we applied it for the European Parliament Elections.)
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Post by Kubrat on Oct 31, 2007 16:22:42 GMT -5
then why are they being transported byt 50 buses from turkey into BUlgaria??? that's not called living in BUlgaria!
it would be logical, only citizens of the town are allowed to vote for their town. NOT 50 buses full of people from outside the country voting for that one town.
[quot]f you apply that rule you will end up with relatively more votes for Turks and Gypsies. So many Bulgarians are abroad. [/quote] wtf? don't worry, once we stop the 50-100 buses of turks coming in every election, i don't thing we;ld have a problem.
their country? wtf are you talking about? so the pan-turk view still exists now doesn't it? If they are Bulgarian, why wouldn't you say, Bulgarians from turkey? or are u just agreeing that they are naturually turks who come and vote.
logical, and how it should be.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 31, 2007 17:16:03 GMT -5
Is TR a member state? BG was not a member state untill year 2008. So if you were living in Sweden not being Swedish citizen (or EU) you cannot vote. Such was the case with me untill the mid 90's. If someone is citizen of a country, he has same rights as all others. The case here was Bulgarian citizen, residing in TR. I don't see any problem for them to vote if they want to.
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Post by superman on Nov 1, 2007 7:14:00 GMT -5
?? I think 2007!
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