Post by fenian on Nov 19, 2007 8:26:03 GMT -5
Yahac, I was actually refering to the rate of the muslim/Turk population of Bulgaria in the last period of Otoman rule in Rumelia. We, Turks, remembered that there were the existense of 'Turk' remains in Bulgaria after facing the atrocity in the beginning of the '90's and what it was always announced on televisions was that the rate of Turkish popolation in Bulgaria was nearly 40% until the Balkan war occured.
As JanissaryofByzantium summed it up very well, it's a complicated issue to distinguish the 'Turk' ethnic/racial identity and the common 'Turk' identity above all muslim ethnic groups in the ex-Ottoman lands. You can encounter various people from any part of Balkans who declare themselves 'Turk' but genetically are Pomak, Slav or another race.
Related to Naim Suleymanoglu, I believe that it's almost impossible to claim purely to belong to any ethnic origin in Eurasian territory today. It's even more impossible to determine the ethnicity of a Bulgarian muslim to be Pomak or Turk because of the mixed-marriages occured between these two Muslim groups in last centuries. That was probably why he could speak Turkish, but there's still a reality that he has some relatives in Bursa still speaking Pomak language at home as well as the other Pomak immigrants moved from Bulgaria in the beginning of the '90's towards Edirne and Tekirdag. What I witnessed in eastern Thrace was that there were Pomak villages where the Pomak language was still the first one in private lives at home.
Aside from Pomak example, I want to let it be known that I'm not claiming anything such as all Balkan immigrants are/were non-Turks who were Islamized indigenous people of the Rumelia. What I'm trying to highlight is that there were non-Turk muslims among the Turkish immigrants who were welcomed by the Turkish state but never discriminated due to our histrical manner values.
Albanian, Bosnian, Pomak, or other Islamized groups are still welcomed by Turkey as having the same rights as well as Turks. This seems to me the 21st century form of Ottoman citizenship consept that considers all Muslim groups 'Turk' before the constitution, and the non-muslims as 'minority' as it's clearly and obviously agreed and signed on Lausanne Treaty.
Ps.
The same Greek muslims, Albanian Muslims, Bosnian Muslims or Arab Muslims are not Turks.
Arabs were excluded of my 'Turk' definition under Ottoman rule. Arabs had already had an original lifestyle independent from Turkish culture on the contrary of the other Balkanian(and some Caucasian) muslim groups who were Islamized and embodied by Ottoman Empire. You can encounter some Arabs who are annoyed even of 'Ottoman' indetity which is absolutely not an ethnic term unlike the Balkanian muslims who volunteerly declare themselves 'Turk' today.
Thanks both JanissaryofByzantium and Hellboy87 for their contributions in the thread for having an informative discussion on a good level.
As JanissaryofByzantium summed it up very well, it's a complicated issue to distinguish the 'Turk' ethnic/racial identity and the common 'Turk' identity above all muslim ethnic groups in the ex-Ottoman lands. You can encounter various people from any part of Balkans who declare themselves 'Turk' but genetically are Pomak, Slav or another race.
Related to Naim Suleymanoglu, I believe that it's almost impossible to claim purely to belong to any ethnic origin in Eurasian territory today. It's even more impossible to determine the ethnicity of a Bulgarian muslim to be Pomak or Turk because of the mixed-marriages occured between these two Muslim groups in last centuries. That was probably why he could speak Turkish, but there's still a reality that he has some relatives in Bursa still speaking Pomak language at home as well as the other Pomak immigrants moved from Bulgaria in the beginning of the '90's towards Edirne and Tekirdag. What I witnessed in eastern Thrace was that there were Pomak villages where the Pomak language was still the first one in private lives at home.
Aside from Pomak example, I want to let it be known that I'm not claiming anything such as all Balkan immigrants are/were non-Turks who were Islamized indigenous people of the Rumelia. What I'm trying to highlight is that there were non-Turk muslims among the Turkish immigrants who were welcomed by the Turkish state but never discriminated due to our histrical manner values.
Albanian, Bosnian, Pomak, or other Islamized groups are still welcomed by Turkey as having the same rights as well as Turks. This seems to me the 21st century form of Ottoman citizenship consept that considers all Muslim groups 'Turk' before the constitution, and the non-muslims as 'minority' as it's clearly and obviously agreed and signed on Lausanne Treaty.
Ps.
The same Greek muslims, Albanian Muslims, Bosnian Muslims or Arab Muslims are not Turks.
Arabs were excluded of my 'Turk' definition under Ottoman rule. Arabs had already had an original lifestyle independent from Turkish culture on the contrary of the other Balkanian(and some Caucasian) muslim groups who were Islamized and embodied by Ottoman Empire. You can encounter some Arabs who are annoyed even of 'Ottoman' indetity which is absolutely not an ethnic term unlike the Balkanian muslims who volunteerly declare themselves 'Turk' today.
Thanks both JanissaryofByzantium and Hellboy87 for their contributions in the thread for having an informative discussion on a good level.