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Post by albaniansoul on Jan 1, 2008 12:04:45 GMT -5
Hey MiG dude, wtf are you saying..? Santa isnt for real??? Wtf man, dont talk trash
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Jan 1, 2008 12:19:12 GMT -5
Novi:
If there was no Russian support then we have to suffer for it because anything else mans selling our Serb souls. So, when Russia is weak, we have to be strong - internally. The West can only give fake friendship and real exploitation.
But Russia's success is tied up with its energy and Russia is guaranteed to be a superpower for the next 100 years. By then, oil will run out and the world will have to change but other forms of exportable energy will be around.
The Radicals need to become like United Russia - a big, mass political party, with Kostunica and the Socialists essentially being satelite parties. We need to be strong internally, so that when Russia's low periods are happening, we can be safe against the kind of division that we suffered in the 90s under Sloba's inadequate leadership.
The West is materialistic and Liberal and have abandoned their culture in favour of multiculturalism. We Orthodox & Slavic-oriented and conservative. The only way the West will accept us is as their little retards. They will never, ever genuinely like us or the Russians for the same reasons. They can only give us fake friendship and make us jump through hoops and meet their pointless deadlines to destroy our own culture while laughing at us.
Russia has 1/2 the population of the US, 1/10th the population of China and it has equal the territory of Russia (US) and China combined. So we'd be smart to hitch ourselves to Russia at this point in history. In a century, the world will become a much smaller place and we won't have to worry about anyone outside the Balkans coming to destroy us.
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As far as MiG is concerned, all I can say is that a guy who hasn't accepted the medieval documents that prove that all of ex-YU except for Slovenia and 4 regions of CRO immediately bordering Slovenia are Serbs ( and thus who hasn't accepted his own Srpstvo) is not really qualified to have an opinion about anything.
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Post by avenger on Jan 1, 2008 13:11:15 GMT -5
Alright you dunce your the only one in here that agrees with yourself as everyone else thinks your a sociopath or at the very best a fool. Of course in your fantasy land you call reality you think everyone else is crazy and you are right. Its to be expected though.
Seems like you sold your brains at a 50% discount. Russia is not weak right now but Serbia is. Do you even know what being strong internally is?
Superpower?
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In all your other posts you are basically advocating picking up where Milosevich left off. Making a big all-encompassing government like you suggest would severly limit the individual liberties of tax paying Serbs and you wouldn't really give them a choice on how to steer their country in the future. Your imposing that you know whats best for them and they don't know that themselves. Hence, you are an idiot.
Well you have several things right here. I hate the fact that the U.S. has gone the path of multiculturalism. You are a little retard. Nobody, not even the Russians, will like little Serbia if it does what you propose it to do.
Well the majority of the U.S. population identifies itself as American ( though I have my reserves about the growing number of illegals here - another issue though) and Chinese peoples look at themselves as Chinese despite different ethnic groups there. Unfortunatly for Russia , and I wish it weren't so, the European Russian population is declining at a staggering rate while non-Russian peoples are expanding in the country. Russia, or really the Russian Federation, has more non Russians and minorities that don't identify with the ' mother country' than just about any other large country on earth.
Your least of all qualified because nothing you wrote ( save the multiculturalism comment and realizing your a retard) makes any sense in the actual real world.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 1, 2008 21:41:24 GMT -5
"If there was no Russian support then we have to suffer for it because anything else mans selling our Serb souls. So, when Russia is weak, we have to be strong - internally. The West can only give fake friendship and real exploitation."
I understand there has to be a bi-partisan principal from all various political parties (from left to right). I know what the west is trying to achieve, but l think serbia needs to find something that will make us useful to them, not selling kosovo off, but something else. In my opinion l think serbia needs to be in harmony with the good and bad......l would like to see serbia one day not having to rely on russia, or anyone, if it were to be then, it just wouldn't improve the countries current situation, in reality.....it will be just as fragile as it is now.
"But Russia's success is tied up with its energy and Russia is guaranteed to be a superpower for the next 100 years. By then, oil will run out and the world will have to change but other forms of exportable energy will be around."
Hopefully this second chance they have they can invest for the people wisely. Have alook at some of arab nations, they are realising now that there oil won't last for ever and now they are building massive tourist infrastructures, they are looking into the future for a *what if*. Russia has much to do even now, they have to create an environment that will encourage couples to have more children, this mainly involves the economy, lifestyles etc...but you can't just build this around oil or gas, it can be used for the initial stages to get it started......the same can be said about serbia and its partnership with russia.
"The Radicals need to become like United Russia - a big, mass political party, with Kostunica and the Socialists essentially being satelite parties. We need to be strong internally, so that when Russia's low periods are happening, we can be safe against the kind of division that we suffered in the 90s under Sloba's inadequate leadership."
So you want it to be streamlined around the radicals?....l think the country needs to find a political party that is honest and will streamline the countries economy so it will be competitive on the international market....and....incourage people to invest in home grown industries, but also encourage people to even open up shop.
What diversity will the Radical's bring?
"The West is materialistic and Liberal and have abandoned their culture in favour of multiculturalism."
One extreme is fundamental islam and the other is the Dutch liberal system, l again believe a balance is necessary, one which allows democratic progressiveness and to a degree cultural understanding.......yes, l have seen what Walmart has done to the culture of some rural american states, again this is extreme liberalism....again l'm asking for caution and a well thought out plan, not just something smacked together at any opportunity!!!!!!!!!!.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 2, 2008 4:49:36 GMT -5
"Its the most absurd thing I have ever read."
Its not a good idea.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 2, 2008 5:12:38 GMT -5
HD, l voted no. Don't take it as an offense, l'm trying to talk with u here with reason (adult to adult). Lets say this was official policy of the government, this is a massive exercise, do you understand the time, effort and money involved?. This policy would be a disaster for Serbia, not only that it would drain the economy, but the people will be further isolated. I'm not in the mind set, since there is some support from Russia now to say, screw all you guys l'm with Russia.....not the right approach. I'm not trying to tell you l'm anti Russia, l'm glad there is Russian support for Kosovo and l welcome Russian financial assistance to help improve the disaster which is called the ecomony.
You say somewhere above that the west never will like serbia....well in business, there is never love attached to business, you just do your job to make money.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 2, 2008 11:21:31 GMT -5
More like a wishlist. Keep talking and preaching, even though nobody is listening. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm starting to think that Seselj is more sane then you. Sorry dude, didn't mean to ruin your moment.
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Mimi
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Post by Mimi on Jan 2, 2008 12:36:18 GMT -5
i have always known since i was a little girl that there are espc two countries that are NOT good for us and whatever they say for you to do, just do the opposite that would be better for you since they never wants your best... Serbia and Russia!
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Post by vinjak on Jan 2, 2008 18:17:39 GMT -5
Hey Mimi is one of those girls in the pic you ?
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 2, 2008 18:51:32 GMT -5
i have always known since i was a little girl that there are espc two countries that are NOT good for us and whatever they say for you to do, just do the opposite that would be better for you since they never wants your best... Serbia and Russia! That could be said about every single nation, as if you didn't know that every nation looks after its own ass and its interests first.
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Post by vinjak on Jan 2, 2008 19:00:58 GMT -5
Guys while I am definatley suprised at the restraint shown here,considering the highly contraversial topic I would like to ask you to please ease off the name calling while most of you have your oppinions on Highdukes oppinions and of highduke himself I would like to remind all that he has a right to express his opinion by all means debate but please leave the insults,name calling etc out of it.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Jan 5, 2008 17:33:28 GMT -5
avenger New Member
Joined: Nov 2007 Posts: 32 Karma: 0
Alright you dunce your the only one in here that agrees with yourself as everyone else thinks your a sociopath or at the very best a fool. Of course in your fantasy land you call reality you think everyone else is crazy and you are right. Its to be expected though.
Actually, look at the results of the poll. 6 people voted for my POV. So the fact that you'd be blind enough to write "your the only one in here that agrees with yourself as everyone else thinks..." is essentially proof that you don't know what you're talking about, which also makes adressing your other remarks to me redundant.
This proves that you're a mindless fool and a ****** who thinks that if he says something with enough conviction then that makes it so, even if what you're saying has no substance. Kill yourself you disgrace,
Novi Pazar Commanding Moderator
member is offline
"In my opinion l think serbia needs to be in harmony with the good and bad......"
That is your first mistake, brother. You want to harmoninze the good and bad in Serbs because that is what you try to do within yourself. Do not strive for imperfection. Strive to get rid of the bad and improve on the good so that you achieve the maximum happiness in life.
Novi Pazar Commanding Moderator
member is offline
"Hopefully this second chance they have they can invest for the people wisely. Have alook at some of arab nations, they are realising now that there oil won't last for ever and now they are building massive tourist infrastructures, they are looking into the future for a *what if*"
The Arabs are not people we should be comparing ourselves to. They're greedy semitic, desert-nomad traders and craftsmen. ancestrally. We Serbs are warrior-peasants. We're the opposite. They're greedy and materialistic. We don't have to be because it isn't in our blood. Commerce was always undeveloped in Europe compared to the Middle East. Our modern obsession with commerce was learned from them. It makes us corrupt and greedy. Take it from a Medieval historian.
Novi Pazar Commanding Moderator
member is offline"So you want it to be streamlined around the radicals?....l think the country needs to find a political party that is honest and will streamline the countries economy so it will be competitive on the international market"
No we need a government that will end internal division and make every Serb treat his neighbour as his own brother. A commerce driven capitalist economy like in the West will make us as divisive, fat, and workoholic as people in the West. We need an average economy based on local economies tailored to the needs of each region.
What makes you think that the radicals are not honest - with this kind of bad judgement?
By becoming less dependent on the international economy, we avoid their life-style deficiencies. There's less $ to spend, so people focus more on socializing and helping one another so that their good will shall be reciprocated. When people have too much individual purchasing power, they become less generous.
We don't need diversity.
Novi Pazar Commanding Moderator
member is offline"l again believe a balance is necessary, one which allows democratic progressiveness and to a degree cultural understanding."
DEMOCRATIC PROGESSIVENESS obliterates cultural understanding because it superficializes culture itself. It is a trick not a logical belief. Commercialism hates culture because people who have real culture do not go for the trinkets and novelties of consumerism. Consumerism being the refuge of cultureless, carreer-oriented, divorced Westerners.
Novi Pazar Commanding Moderator
member is offline yes, l have seen what Walmart has done to the culture of some rural american states, again this is extreme liberalism....again l'm asking for caution and a well thought out plan, not just something smacked together at any opportunity!!!!!!!!!!.
You can't have it both ways. Wanting to have it both ways at any cost like you do is another symptom of modernism and convenience and doing the easy thing. You can't have Liberalism, commericialism alongside family values, heroism, patriotism, love and friendship.
You have to chose. And while a decision could normally be difficult for most, it isn't for someone who has the culture of Srpstvo. Unless you're just a Westernized Serb who is a Westerner first and Serb second. If you're the latter, then please make it clear because you're not wirth my time and I don't want to talk to you because you're a waste anyway.
But if you're a Srbin first and foremost and that is something that will be on your mind when you're living out the last moments of your life - then embrace Orthodoxy, Nationalism and Russia - the opposite of Liberal Consumerism and cleanse the latter from your personality. Assimilate Srpstvo into yourself entirely.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Jan 5, 2008 17:45:42 GMT -5
"hehehe, o.k HD. I've in most instances voted liberals here in Aus because my mind frame is set towards capitalism and l'm somewhat have captalist tendancies, for example, l have a couple of investment properties, still have to pay off one and l have invested some money into the share market......my family of northern kosovo and raska don't have this opportunity that l do and l would *love* to see them prosper.
Well they can't unless they become like the Australisans, who are also a bunch of Brittish derived ****** like the Canadians who allow immigrants to come in and push them around and change their identity. An Australian is no longer a Brittish descendant, he's a Siptar, a Serb an Aboriginal a Chinese a Jew etc. Individuals in that society can only prosper economically while being empty inside and sublimating that emptyness into workoholism, morbid obesity, television, video-games and drugs.
Sell your property. Buy a farm in your ancestral locality and be a farmer. I'm working two jobs until November to save $15 000 to go live in Serbia as a self-sufficient commercial farmer on my grandfather's land. * * * * academia.
What stops you from doing the same?
In fact, let me invite you to do the same as me.
What do you say? Why not?
Let me tell one thing:
The Albanians of kosovo are generally very poor and are highly nationalistic, how are they going to prosper if they become independant with no money to invest?. Money brings power HD, just like Russia with its natural reserves, hopefully putin's replacement will manage the economy wisely and invest wisely for the future.
I'm not saying we should abandon common sense. I'm saying that we shouldn't build a Consumerist Liberal society in Serbia because that kind of society is good only on the surface if you open your eyes and really take a look around you.
So sell your property and let's go back to Serbia together in November. We've known each other for what - 5 years? Wouldn't it enrich your life?
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Jan 5, 2008 20:47:56 GMT -5
Mimi: Re: Re-asimilating Catholics & Muslims & expeling i have always known since i was a little girl that there are espc two countries that are NOT good for us and whatever they say for you to do, just do the opposite that would be better for you since they never wants your best... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah but how do you know that Albanians are better stock than Serbs. I don't deny what you're saying. It's true but what if Albos arent?
They betrayed Skenderbeg and converted to Islam and prospered by helping his Turkish enemies. They are not even European but descend from Anatolians. They created a theory of Illyrian-European origin in the late 19th century full of holes to cover up their Asiatic origin. Then they discarded their religion as soon as it became convenient which means lack of honor or consistency. They've been allied to the Red Chinese under Mao, to the Turks, to the Nazis and to the US which is hated world-wide and just as odious as the others.
Serbs stayed Orthodox, have had one consistent ally based on common culture language and religion and the majority of our people never betrayed these values and we've persecuted those of us who took up different religions and ethnic identities.
Albanians go where the wind blows. Serbs are more consistent.
Which kind of mentality is more trustworthy in a friend and neighbor? Being adaptable means maintaining your identity in the face of hardship not constantly changing it when things become difficult.
Nobody respects a person who acts in daily life as complete opportunist and their ancestors have acted collectively since history recorded them until today.
And yet people respect a man who has stayed true to himself in the face of adversity throughout his life. This kind of man has character and never lashes out at others first but is quick to punish those who lash out at him for no reason.
A healthy man has no contradictions or is successfully always striving and eager to eliminate any contradiction as soon as it becomes apparent to him.
A defective man has multiple contradictions wants to think that this doesn't make him any better than the healthy man. He envies the healthy man and wants to tear him down.
That's what's being played out in the Kosovo conflict on an ethnic scale between two ethnic groups as opposed to two individuals. These are two mentalities, one valueless and one valuable.
In the future, when oil runs out in 30-50 years and the world becomes less interdependent as communication over great distances becomes more difficult and human rights cease to factor in to world politics like they do in the last 60 years - Albanians will have nobody to help them, we will be able to reduce them to the same kind of status they enjoyed over us in Ottoman Times when, as Muslims, they treated Christian Serbs as 2nd class citizens.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 6, 2008 12:30:41 GMT -5
HD
I have modified your post (which will eventually like your, or most of your, other posts be transfered to your personal forum here) to make it appear more diplomatic. There is no reason to be rude and uncivil nor is there is a reason to express certain ideas in anything but a civil and diplomatic manner (certain ideas are best kept to one self as expressing them in such manner in the open will undermine your own thread by remaking it into a pissing contest (which would then in turn have it transfered to Balkanoid Circus Forum)as opposed to a more ordered discussion as it has been up to that point). Expressing oneself in such manner in ones own thread will ultimately derail such tread into undesirable direction.
Only young children can entertain the idea of expressing every single solitary idea and thought they might come across as such are usually benign. Adults in any given society have to refrain themselves and act according to the norms of a civil society (as they have been trained throughout their school years).
Also I firmly believe that even what someones perceives to be an enemy deserves respect to be expressed (as by doing so shows strength of ones own character as well as represents a civil norm as existent within civilized world such as Europe).
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Jan 6, 2008 14:11:03 GMT -5
Fine.
I see your point. But what is the big deal? It's a message board. You're taking it too seriously, man. Modify this: **** **.
Why else do you think that my threads have the most page views out of anybody else's, including your own lame observations? It's because people like to read what I think whether they openly agree with me or not.
So, clearly, by making my threads less interesting, you also make your own message board less interesting and you feel that it compensates for your jealousy toward me posle svega sto je bilo izmedju nas dvoje. ;D
PS: I like proboards much better than ezboard.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jan 6, 2008 14:32:10 GMT -5
Hilarious thread. It brings out highduke's already infamous hypocricy. Speaking in moral terms on one hand, criticizing the pillars upon which modern global socities are built on (i.e. commerce) while on the other hand speaking of slaughtering all Albanian males and enslave our women. I guess the possibiltiy of being a descendant of a bastard, the offspring of some (un)voluntary sex relation between a Turkish landlord and a Serbian peasant woman, eats him from within. Filled with hatred, he wish for others to feel the same complex.
His lack of true knowledge about Albanians, Bosniaks & Croats is most evident in his own romantic idea/misinterpretation of 'Serbdom'; with no true grasp of his own identity, how can he possible know others?
He speaks of Serbs as the counterpart of greedy, hook-nosed Semitics who are the root of modern day evils such as mass-consumption and commerce. Such greed, such corruption, is absent in the "Serbian blood" (is there evidence for corruption and evil being blood-related; isn't that in contradiction with Chistian ideals?) -- the Serbs are descendants of a "warrior farmer class" (this too is false -- I'll come to this later). Who can with outmost sincerity negate the similiarities between this type of reasoning and the reasoning made by Hitler, Goebbels and other Nazis? Wasn't their ideal 'Aryan' also a blonde, blue-eyed farmer who was not (spiritually) corrupted by the commercial greed of the Semitic Jew who continues to undermine true Aryan values?
This false portrayal of the medieval Serb as a "role model", as a man who is free, independent, not corrupt and warlike should not be done by someone who claims himself to be an expert on the history of the Middle Age. Your average Serb during the Middle Age was a landtied serf, a meropah. Only occasional references are made to 'free men' -- they too were bound to certain amount of labour in the lands of their lord. There were also slaves in this medieval society.
As in all types of serfdom, this feudal lord-slave relation always breaks down the type of virtues highduke claims to have been characteristic of the Serbian farmer; bravery, integrity, a sense of freedom etc. The only true free commoners in the realm of Dusan were Albanian and Vlach pastoralists! No wonder Dusan used himself of German, Catalan and Albanian auxiliaries; the Germans composed his elite guard, a sort of Serbian "Praetorians".
Later on you speak of character and perseverance, of maintaining one's identity regardless of what. You're being to generous to yourself here. It isn't like preserving Christianity was an impossible challenge for you guys. Being such a fan of the Middle Age and medieval Serbs, I assume you've read the Code of Dusan (Dusanova Zakonik)? If so, you must agree with its inhumanity (though judging by your ideals and values, I would not be surprised if the Code did not bother you at all). To take examples; if a commoner fornicated with a noblewoman, both would have their hands cut off and their noses slit.; if someone 'plucked the beard' of a nobleman (symbolical act) would have his hands cut off; brigands were hanged, thieves blinded and the villages in which they were found destroyed.
With the Ottoman arrival, the condition of these serfs improved significiantly. Mutilating penalties were more rare and not equally brutal; labour was reduced from six days a week to three times a year. The Orthodox Church was given much liberty. The Ottomans never imposed an alien system; rather, they adopted the already existing one with more humane modifications. On the other hand, Albanians had been free highlanders and pastoralists during the Middle Age. They developed, unlike the Serbs, a clan-based system where Christianity experienced little penetration. The Albanians thus developed a warlike society; with freedom, however, comes also a burden. Standing before the choice of preserving the Christian faith and their way of life, they chose the latter. We were not as connected to our scarce clergy as you were with a church that was deeply interconnected with your very national identity. The same pattern occured in other pastoral regions, such as Montenegro. In many parts of Montenegro where Ottoman dominance was established, many converted to Muslims. A cleansing in the 18th century does not change that fact. Likewise, warlike and pastoral Crete was almost 1/2 Muslim prior to its 'integration' into the Greek state.
Your delusional perception on Serbian history is nothing new though. Historical revisionism, wishful thinking and baseless romanticism has that effect. One illustrating example is precisely World War Two. You say we collaborated with the Nazis, yet you act as if you were oblivious to the fact that TWO concentration camps existed in Serbia (one of which was Serb-run). You conveniently 'forget' names such as Milan Nedic & Dimitrije Ljotic. Serbian fascism was homegrown, and sincere cooperation with Germany was only hindered by an irony of fate. The overthrowing of Prince Pavle's regime was not because of resentment of fascism, which was constitutionalized in Serbia as early as the mid-19th century. It was because the, from Serbian perspective, more privileged position given to the Croats.
Conclusively, I must state you're a moron highduke; a far greater than I had previously thought. Perhaps some farming will do you good; I'm sure you'd be better at being an inbred seljak than a home educated "historian". In either case, you're going to die as a "man" consumed by hatred. You'll be (you already are) be broken by not seeing Serbia developing towards the lunatic path you'd want her to develop. Because just like you could not eliminate us Albanians ever since you step foot in the Balkans after your long march from the rugged landscape of Afganistan, you will not be able in the future either.
Merry Christmas!
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jan 6, 2008 14:37:15 GMT -5
Also I firmly believe that even what someones perceives to be an enemy deserves respect to be expressed (as by doing so shows strength of ones own character as well as represents a civil norm as existent within civilized world such as Europe). It does not lie within the Serbian character. That is also why he is famous for mutilation. He famed himself in contemporary European newspapers in the early 20th century by slitting noses and lips from captured and killed enemies during the First Balkan War. This was unheard of among Albanians. A fallen enemy was never to be mutilated. In Rugova, the white headgear of fallen mountaineers was used to cover the faces by their very killers. A sense of chivalry even in combat. This sense of chivalry was soiled by our experience with the Serbs. Respect cannot be given to such people who have no sense of honour in combat. I can only hope my people will regain that sense of besa they once held so dear. Not in the field of combat, because I do not wish my people further bloodshed. But besa can be implemented in many fields of life, not just in the battlefield.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 6, 2008 14:38:51 GMT -5
I am taking it serious for several reasons.
1) This is a message board meaning it is sponsored by someone and this someone who is sponsoring it is situated somewhere. Somewhere means that this is a location (California, US in this case) that is controlled by a certain government that imposes certain set of rules. It is these rules that have to be followed as I do not want the forum to be known as one openly braking them. Therefore the idea is avoiding unnecessary friction from regulatory angles.
2) Personally speaking (thus from experience of running forums) I strongly prefer individuals to express their ideas in adult manner and look serious doing it (which to me namecalling isn't as it is juvenile). Attempting to maintain serious discussion excludes introducing volatile=uncivil replies as such will result in more of the same and thus will result into derailing of your own discussion which = destruction of the thread (which doesn't benefit me as I do not think like an angry, spiteful & unruly 12 year old but a fully matured and civilized adult). I could care less to have 1000s of participants if their participation brings no quality to the forums. On contrary, I would prefer having a fraction of that number if it meant maintaining some level of academic civility.
3) If anything I made your thread (by editing it) more serious and more interesting and more intellectually challenging versus leaving within it certain name-callings and certain ideas that were expressed there (whose quality to a discussion are equivalent as stating that an average land mine is there to enhance the quality of human life by making it more 'entertaining').
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2008 1:06:00 GMT -5
"That is your first mistake, brother. You want to harmoninze the good and bad in Serbs because that is what you try to do within yourself. Do not strive for imperfection. Strive to get rid of the bad and improve on the good so that you achieve the maximum happiness in life."
Yes that is true, for Serbia however, the country must be carefull in the way it conducts itself.
"No we need a government that will end internal division and make every Serb treat his neighbour as his own brother. A commerce driven capitalist economy like in the West will make us as divisive, fat, and workoholic as people in the West. We need an average economy based on local economies tailored to the needs of each region."
Yes l'm for ending internal division, currupt leaders arn't helping to advance the country *internally*. I would like a strong economy and one that understands the value of family. Germanies industrial relations is at the forefront, giving fixibility for working families; they fine organisations who breach laws regarding overtime or giving employees overtime etc...
"By becoming less dependent on the international economy, we avoid their life-style deficiencies. There's less $ to spend, so people focus more on socializing and helping one another so that their good will shall be reciprocated. When people have too much individual purchasing power, they become less generous."
So what was wrong with socialism and communism?
Why can't Serbia be fixible liberal society.
I think a religious society does not adavnce well, have a look at the religious middle easterners and north africans, prior to islam they were the worlds educated elite. Christianity had also made europeans backward at one point, killing off the smart because the intelligent one was a threat to religion.
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