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Post by tripwire on Nov 9, 2007 1:01:36 GMT -5
"my people might "believe in the tooth fairey" as you claim, but you know what, at least we are more competent than you will ever be. "
Your people are as competent as having several generals, an Albanian one too, who planned the takeover of Krajina. Only, the Albanian general went onto become the president of Kosova, while the 2 ethnic Croatian generals are in hague slammer accused of ethnic cleansing and war crimes. Also, it was your people/leaders who gave up their hero generals to the Hague for all the promises EU made to your leaders. Oh yeh, and your top general was humiliated in Spain when cops cuffed him and made him do the perp walk all the way to the Hague. Brown nosing? lol Croatia could write an encyclopedia on it with this incident alone. If Croatia was so way ahead of Albania's economic state, why would they give up their heros for a penny from those same people who allowed Serbs to trounced your country once it claimed its independence? Remember that the embargo was put on all former states of yugoslavia, not just Serbia..but it was Serbs who had major portions of the JNA and their factories in their state. Who did you depend on to protect your people? Iran, Venezuela? lol..yes, Croats were soooo way ahead of Albania that their leaders or people couldn't anticipate Belgrade's response and prepare for it. You're a fool if you think Croatia is better than Albania because if it wasn't for Albanian ports and their suppliers/transporters, you guys would be speaking serb right now. lolol..I keep forgetting Croats don't have their own language like Albanians or Hungarians. They just copy the Serbs. Your people are the exact copy of the Serbs, and it's clear why your people always continue to slaughter each other like animals. One tries to out kill the other, in style and count. Keep it up, one day the Balkans will be free of animals like your kind.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 9, 2007 2:02:15 GMT -5
"my people might "believe in the tooth fairey" as you claim, but you know what, at least we are more competent than you will ever be. " Your people are as competent as having several generals, an Albanian one too, who planned the takeover of Krajina. Only, the Albanian general went onto become the president of Kosova, while the 2 ethnic Croatian generals are in hague slammer accused of ethnic cleansing and war crimes. Also, it was your people/leaders who gave up their hero generals to the Hague for all the promises EU made to your leaders. Oh yeh, and your top general was humiliated in Spain when cops cuffed him and made him do the perp walk all the way to the Hague. Brown nosing? lol Croatia could write an encyclopedia on it with this incident alone. If Croatia was so way ahead of Albania's economic state, why would they give up their heros for a penny from those same people who allowed Serbs to trounced your country once it claimed its independence? Remember that the embargo was put on all former states of yugoslavia, not just Serbia..but it was Serbs who had major portions of the JNA and their factories in their state. Who did you depend on to protect your people? Iran, Venezuela? lol..yes, Croats were soooo way ahead of Albania that their leaders or people couldn't anticipate Belgrade's response and prepare for it. You're a fool if you think Croatia is better than Albania because if it wasn't for Albanian ports and their suppliers/transporters, you guys would be speaking serb right now. lolol..I keep forgetting Croats don't have their own language like Albanians or Hungarians. They just copy the Serbs. Your people are the exact copy of the Serbs, and it's clear why your people always continue to slaughter each other like animals. One tries to out kill the other, in style and count. Keep it up, one day the Balkans will be free of animals like your kind. Can you name which general became president?
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 9, 2007 2:04:12 GMT -5
" It would have more economic prosperity under Serbia, rather than be a poor state to depend on UN/US supplies. " Ask the Hungarians now if their 'autonomy' got them anywhere for the last 60 years? Ask Montenegro/Macedonia where they stood in FRY economic growth in their FRY status for the last 60 years? Ask Romas where they stand economically in Serbia today? Ask Sanxhak the same, as well as the Albanians in Preshevo.. valley. "Kosovo had more economic prosperity under SFRJ/FRJ...." lolol...open your eyes and stop brown nosing the Serbs. "Croats could care less what happenns in Kosovo and Kosovars could care less what happens in Croatia." If this is true, then what is this Croat ambassador ranting about anyhow, since his people don't care? If any Croat believes the article or what the Serbs say, then I'm sure they believe in the tooth fairey too. Its obvious you don't have the slightest clue about Vojvodina, absolutley no idea.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 9, 2007 2:06:33 GMT -5
You see tripwire, we Croats are good at what we do. Croatia was prosperous throughout its history and it shows through its culture and civility. Tripwire, what do you have to show, a clan based system that rivals Afghanistan.
Tripwire, have you forgotten about the Dalmation coastline? We don't need nor care for your ports.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 9, 2007 8:36:45 GMT -5
MiG wrote;
At what point was it more economically prosperous? Are you aware that not too much time has gone since the destructive war of '98 & '99? For you to have a grasp on the extension of the devastation, I just have to mention the figure of 120,000 demolished households. It takes time to recover from that, yet ingenious Albanians managed. Kosova after World War Two wasn't a pretty place either from an economic perspective. And while Kosova might havd had a better economy during SFRY, that's still an unfair comparison; by that time, long time had passed since the last war, and some progess must inevitable come. Nevertheless, Kosova still remained Yugoslavia's poorest province/region, and that speaks of how economically benefitable it is to remain under Serbian rule.
I would rather choose freedom & independence under the condition of being supplied by EU & UN, than being reduced to an autonomous entity within Serbia, still being supplied by an external factor, namely Serbia. Because that's how it will always be; if you remain poor, and don't develop the economy from within so as to create some stability, you will always be dependant on subsidies, whether from Serbia as an autonomous region, or as an independent state dependant on financial aid from UN and EU in particular. As you might guess, naturally we'll choose the latter. Furthermore, Serbs were never really interested in reviving the local economy in Kosova.
With a clear status, the road will be open for investors to invest. Kosova has a young population, many of whom are atleast bilingual, which already there makes it clear that we have potential in perhaps the telecommunication bussines. Slovenian investments have clearly shown that there exists interest. Other investors are awaiting the opportunity when the status issue is resolved, since nobody is particularly kean on making an investment in a possible hotspot. Remaining within Serbia will most definetely result in new guerrilla movements, and whether these will be successful in the sense that Kosova will be liberated by us single handedly isn't the only dilemma; the consequences of such an ensuing conflict will have severe implications, economically and politically, which will continue to cripple not only the economy of Kosova, but also Serbia.
If you don't care then close that mouth and stop acting as if you knew what's better for us than we do ourselves, when you obviously seem to lack insight on the whole issue, be it the historical background, the existing conditions or the uncertain future. If Kosova's independence will result in a 'chain reaction', it will not be without the interest and active instigation of the greater powers. If there exists interests in the West to create destability in former USSR by agitating autonomous regions to rebel against Moscow, there's more ways than letting Kosova become independent. If there is no interest, the US and the West will do as they have done; remain silent and let Russia deal with its internal issues as it has done so far. You cannot ignite a fire that's already been set. The Chechens will continue to fight for freedom regardless of the outcome in Kosova, just as PKK will continue to attempt the creation of an independent Kurdish state in southeastern Turkey and Northern Iraq.
One unjustice does not justify another.
Thanks fo your 'sincere' concern, but we've seen the benefits of being ruled by Belgrade. Take some history lessons and learn about the grievous sufferings the Albanians of Kosova endured throughout the 20th century, be it in terms of political discrimination or even righout massacres on the civilian populace and ethnic cleansings. The war of 1998-99 was the top of the iceberg; there's much more to it than some of you Yugonostalgic Croats seem to be aware of. Too deep scares have been inflicted on our people for us to 'forget' and think of the 'economical benefits (*laughing his arse off*) and thus abandon what we've been fighting for during a whole century.
If you're so in love with the Serbs, take my advice I already gave you; advocate the union of the Croat-inhabited parts of Herzegovina with RS ... or better, the Croatian territories adjacent to Serbia (Slavonija .... ?) with Belgrade. And you might live happily forever in a new Yugoslavia ... just let us non-Slavs out of that union.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 9, 2007 10:09:50 GMT -5
You see tripwire, we Croats are good at what we do. Croatia was prosperous throughout its history and it shows through its culture and civility. Tripwire, what do you have to show, a clan based system that rivals Afghanistan. Herzegovina and the Dalmatian hinterland are right up there with the 'clan based system'. Mind you, there are other explanations than your simplified answer to the modern differences between countries.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Nov 9, 2007 15:35:45 GMT -5
^ Ok donnie, well put some of it, I'll give you that. "One unjustice does not justify another." Tell that to the many 'Liberation Groups' all around the world. BTW, it's not that I care or not, it's how the outcome is already taking shape. Alb. Kosovars want an independent state. You really think that an independent Kosovo that can survive in the long run?.. Please..
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 9, 2007 17:34:57 GMT -5
Thanks
As I mentioned earlier, separatist groups will continue to pursue their goals regardless of the political outcome in Kosova. Chechens will continue to attempt secession from Russia. The same for ETA in País Vasco, though it is of importance to emphasis the fact that only a minority of Basques actually support the creation of an independent Basque state, let alone support the violent activities of ETA.
If Kosova's independence sets a chain reaction that inspires people that are opressed, so be it. But I am afraid the real world is not that simple.
Yes I do believe it. If smaller states can, so can we. I mean, whether through Serbia or EU, we will be dependant on subsidies. But inevitable, to rid ourselves of this economic dependance, we must ultimately stand on our own feet, whether as an independent state or as a prosperous region integrated into a larger state. Of course, I prefer independence. To say that economic progress is interlinked with staying under Serbia isn't realistic, just idealistic (from a Serbian point of view).
To be sincere though, I would not like an independent Kosova for a too long basis. Eventually I would want to see it unite with Albania. Time will tell if that will become more than a dream for my part.
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Post by tripwire on Nov 9, 2007 21:54:57 GMT -5
"You see tripwire, we Croats are good at what we do. Croatia was prosperous throughout its history and it shows through its culture and civility. Tripwire, what do you have to show, a clan based system that rivals Afghanistan."
Funny, but for a people who's been under one form of foreign tyrrany since King Gentius was captured and brought to Rome, the Albanians managed to keep their ancient ways and language. Unlike Croatians. What was your original language anyway? Russian, Czech, Moldavian, Persian? lol I'm sure it wasn't Serbian.
"Tripwire, have you forgotten about the Dalmation coastline? We don't need nor care for your ports. "
Dalmatia? during your war? lol..Every nation enforcing the embargo, including Russia kept watch on your coast. Ships with arms going to Croatia were practically all stopped and boarded by interpol and confiscated. lol..If it wasn't for Albanian arms dealers, Croatia would really be speaking Serb. lol
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Nov 9, 2007 22:41:46 GMT -5
Where did you get the whole Albanian Arms dealers supplying all of the Arms to Croatia? Please, I beg of you, to give me a link that will slap me in the face. Give me that article that states "Albanian Arms Dealers armed the Croatian Army".
BTW, and yes, I do think, and know for a FACT in all fields, that Croatia is better than the Republic of Albania.
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Post by tripwire on Nov 10, 2007 0:47:21 GMT -5
"BTW, and yes, I do think, and know for a FACT in all fields, that Croatia is better than the Republic of Albania. "
And who gave you the Croat language to make your people civilized? Get on your knees and thank them properly.
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Post by humbleman on Nov 10, 2007 14:29:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I am quite surprised and shocked at the Albanian attitude. Just because we don't want Kosovo/ Kosova to be independent doesn't mean we're anti-Albanian. But when will they have the maturity to realize that?
I remember that Dijedon got really worked up about this once, and started posting anti-Romanian postings everywhere just because Romania voted against the independence of Kosovo/a. Just grow up man!
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Post by tripwire on Nov 10, 2007 14:56:37 GMT -5
"Just because we don't want Kosovo/ Kosova to be independent doesn't mean we're anti-Albanian. " Albanians don't care if you're pro or anti anybody. That's your problem to handle, not ours. Our challenge is, to work out a policy with the nations that open their official embassies in Pristina after we take our seats at Nato, UN and EU in January 08, with the advice and consent of our citizens first and certain foreign friends.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Nov 10, 2007 15:44:50 GMT -5
-"And who gave you the Croat language to make your people civilized? Get on your knees and thank them properly."-
It's a slavic dialect you douchebag. It has nothing to do with Albanians.
I don't know whether you are just very stupid or ignorant. But the fact remains that you act/talk like a 10 year old child, and your thoughts/knowledge are of a 8 year old child. Dude spare me your stupidity, and spread imagination elsewhere, because the Croatia Forum is not that place.
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Post by radovic on Nov 10, 2007 16:07:23 GMT -5
"Just because we don't want Kosovo/ Kosova to be independent doesn't mean we're anti-Albanian. " Albanians don't care if you're pro or anti anybody. That's your problem to handle, not ours. Our challenge is, to work out a policy with the nations that open their official embassies in Pristina after we take our seats at Nato, UN and EU in January 08, with the advice and consent of our citizens first and certain foreign friends. Doesn;t the west Kosovo policy block you from joining the UN for several years should you get independence. Not only that even if you were independent you would not receive immediate UN seats and you would not receive NATO or EU membership. If you believe you would obtain these right after declaring independence you are delusional.
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Post by radovic on Nov 10, 2007 16:08:39 GMT -5
Noit Albanians. Croats speak Slavic. Civilized -- let's see the Austrians and the Italians (specifically Venetaisn -- historically had presence in Dalmatia).
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Post by radovic on Nov 10, 2007 16:10:54 GMT -5
"You see tripwire, we Croats are good at what we do. Croatia was prosperous throughout its history and it shows through its culture and civility. Tripwire, what do you have to show, a clan based system that rivals Afghanistan." Funny, but for a people who's been under one form of foreign tyrrany since King Gentius was captured and brought to Rome, the Albanians managed to keep their ancient ways and language. Unlike Croatians. What was your original language anyway? Russian, Czech, Moldavian, Persian? lol I'm sure it wasn't Serbian. Illyrian origins of Albanians are questionable. After 1991, the arms embargo was lifted on Croatia. Throughout the war only FRY and Bosnia had arms embargoes. So learn some basic facts. Their were no Albanian arms dealers.
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Post by tripwire on Nov 10, 2007 18:55:45 GMT -5
"Illyrian origins of Albanians are questionable."
Croatia's persian origins are not. Why change your language to Slav when you had a perfectly good start in Persia?
"After 1991, the arms embargo was lifted on Croatia."
Show us the UN resolution that LIFTED this embargo on Croatia. I guess you have no clue to the meaning of "former". lolol
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 10, 2007 19:06:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I am quite surprised and shocked at the Albanian attitude. Just because we don't want Kosovo/ Kosova to be independent doesn't mean we're anti-Albanian. But when will they have the maturity to realize that? I remember that Dijedon got really worked up about this once, and started posting anti-Romanian postings everywhere just because Romania voted against the independence of Kosovo/a. Just grow up man! When I wrote negative things about Romania, it was only as a response to Anittas' and Bonnies' provocations -- not because of your political stance in regards to Kosova. You getting p!ssed and still thinking about it just breakes my heart, but in either case, it was in no way related to Romania and its approach to Kosova. Though I did get infuriated at how the two Romanian policemen who brutally murdered two protesters of the Vetëvendosja in Prishtina earlier this year got away unpunished.
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Post by radovic on Nov 11, 2007 0:04:23 GMT -5
"Illyrian origins of Albanians are questionable." Croatia's persian origins are not. Why change your language to Slav when you had a perfectly good start in Persia? Simple. The language changed from a Persian language to Slavic because they assimilated into the Slavs. www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/embargoes.htmlThe UN never put an arms embargo on Croatia. The EU did and even then the emargo applied to only certain weapons -- most of which were not weapons croatia would want in large numbers. Since the UN did not have an embargo in place only the EU embargo existed. Second, EU embargoes are pretty much meaningless since the Eu allows individuals and companies involved in the arms trade to give weapons to states with arms embargoes through 3rd countries.
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