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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 25, 2008 23:48:18 GMT -5
Here I post my introduction to critiquing culture. If you are interested in further reading let me know on the thread and I will post more of this essay I composed. Note, I have made a couple updates since I wrote it almost a year and a half ago. I hope to compile several of my essays regarding religion, culture, nationalism, family, and socialism in a comprehensive book. Because of the length of this work I have decided to divide it into sections. I am open to any rational criticisms and seek to address them with respect and curious interest. For the sake of privacy I elect not to share my personal information out here in the open but I do hold some credentials in this subject. If you are further interested in some of my other work please let me know.
Introduction
If we all desire integrity, honesty, and freedom in our lives then we must critically examine the values forced upon us from a very young age from an ideal known as culture. I've been to various destinations in the world, some beautiful , some not so beautiful, and observed first hand the effect of culture on groups of individual people. Various degrees of culture dictate that man abandon any vestige of rationality in favor of quasi-mythical cultural 'morals.' This is particularly evident in regions of the world such as the Middle East, India, and the Balkans. Are we devolving? In a day of modern technology and scientific achievement why do we hearken back to mystical rituals we find so embedded into religions and cultures? What is the purpose? Why should we desire destruction of our material achievements thus far? I attempt in this short essay to examine the true nature of culture and what its purpose is for mankind. I attempt to show that culture is a form of mind control and closely related to religion. It is a form of social indoctrination that seeks to repress rational thinking. Particularly alarming about culture is the claims of its advocates on 'moral justifications.' In the 'morality' of culture , like religion, lays the real danger. Moral justifications based on whim and not objective reality often lead to catastrophic consequences such as observed in the wars through out history up to modern times. Culture, based on irrational concepts of contradictory morality, only serves to divide the human family into even more factions and works against our common goal of not only survival, but prosperity as well.
Please let me know if you find value in any of this and if I should post more.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Oct 26, 2008 9:47:20 GMT -5
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 26, 2008 14:50:36 GMT -5
I do not get what you are going at, but if you want to say that the middle east and the balkans have devolved, then you are right, we have gone back in time...
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Post by raynon on Oct 26, 2008 14:59:50 GMT -5
Interesting. There are plenty 'o contradictions in cultural ideals many of us were raised with but lost or misused/misrepresented/misidentified on the way to cultural definitions of personal success and happiness. Here's a pretty interesting insight into mind/people/govt. decision's control by using cultural values as the driving force in 'advertising'/ marketing/ public relations, madison ave. The Century Of The Self - Part 1 of 4 - By Adam Curtis Freud, Bernay(Freud's nephew) using psychology/cultural values for mass manipulation. "This series is about how those in power have used Freud's theories to try and control the dangerous crowd in an age of mass democracy." - Adam Curtis
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Post by zgembo on Oct 27, 2008 1:14:06 GMT -5
Culture is a pretty general concept, with multiple meanings. Are you critiquing cultural traditions (specifically those who overemphasize them)? That would seem to be a bit more focused.
To label this as devolution is a bit too strong. People emphasize cultural traditions and culture when its felt that they are under attack. Political power struggles are the source of that in the Middle East and the Balkans. Globalization is a source of it in the world all over.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 1, 2008 11:38:37 GMT -5
By Kane Continuing on Culture - Part 1 I opened up with an intro. Now I continue my analysis of culture and its relationship to reality and its subsequent effect on human societies.
Culture:
Let us imagine a father in a Muslim country. His child asks him : " Dad, what does it mean to be good?" His dad will conventionally answer : " Obedience to Allah and His Prophet." The question of interest to ask ourselves is why would the father answer in such a way? Is it because he had firsthand experience with the Prophet ? Did the father scribe the Holy Book himself? Did the father have a trancendent realization of morality directly from the Creator? Suppose the father was raised in an Eskimo village , would had his answer likely been the same?
Probably not , he is merely parroting that which was told to him as a child. Sadly, there is more.
The father knew that he would have to equip his child to survive and even prosper ... in a Muslim society. Suppose he told his child that he didn't know what was right and what was wrong. The consequences would likely be that he would lose his moral authority in his child's eyes and he would be playing on chance that his child might in encounter conflicts with everyone else in society ... raised with a Koranic/ Traditionally Muslim teaching of morality.
Put another way , what are the social costs for your child if every other parent indoctrinates their children with a faith-based Koranic interpretation of morality and you teach your child a more rationally truth-based interpretation of morality? If everyone else has a false sense of morality and you are the only one with a true sense of morality, how does that fare for your prosperity within that society?
A distant relative of mine that lives close to me brought over his impressionable and creative son , his boy was about 10 yrs old. His son managed to construct a representation of Jesus sitting on a rock praying to heaven. His son asked me what I thought of this representation of Jesus. One of the first things that raced across my mind was that I know his father, well-meaning, had taught his son , and allowed others to teach him , that Jesus Christ is actually the living son of god and that the whole point of Jesus' existence was to forgive everyone, including an innocent 10 yr old , for wickedness in Original Sin. He was told to believe that Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days , ascended into heaven , and must miraculously through prayer communicate to god through Jesus. It is the only way of salvation or anything good in your existence. It is sad to think about that this is one of many cults which hold members through guilt for something like Original Sin ( i.e. babies are inherently wicked when they are born and must give themselves to Christ's cult in order to be saved) This is no less than mind control over an innocent child.
But how to respond to an innocent question asked by that child on what I thought Jesus meant in his representation? Should I say its a well done representation but illustrates a fictional character in a fairy tale? What if I told him the truth? What would his reaction be? What would his fathers reaction be? Outrage , perhaps. I could be the man in the community that is shunned upon for having the audacity of telling the truth to a young child. But then the community would soon know that I am one of those scarce 'non believers' and that if their children came around me I would try to tell them god ( and therefore , by the majority of the community's opinion , goodness) does not exist. I must admit that I took easier path instead. I told him I thought it was a creative piece of art and I asked the child what he thought of it. I couldn't stand to break that child's heart even at the cost of introducing him to rational thought. I still feel I maybe could've done better in that situation...
But we can see this everywhere, not just in Muslim countries , or Christian families/neighborhoods. In all cultures ( and cultures tend to be conduits of religion - will explain later-) they repeat their own same cultural norms from generation to generation and create more intellectual copies of themselves and they treat the cultural norms as if they are some kind of objective truth. Japanese tend to teach their children strict obedience and filial piety, Catholics and other traditional Christian cults/sects teach their children to drink the blood of their Savior. Muslims teach their kids that Mohamed ( piss be upon him) , who married a 6 yr old girl and had sexual intercourse with her when she was 9 ( pedophilia) was a righteous and moral man chosen by Allah. What does that say about Allah? Western parents and teachers teach their children democracy is the ideal, and socialist countries teach their children that the State is a secular , almost god like institution , which loves them.
Almost every parent and family believes they are teaching their children the highest morals and truth yet in reality all the they might be doing is inflicting cultural mythologies on their children. In other words we could be seriously damaging our children by telling them lies ( even unintentionally) while also telling them that lying is wrong. Contradictory standards. We could tell our children conformity is wrong. ' Just because other kids think its cool to do drugs in school , you don't have to be like them, and its actually way cooler to be a nonconformist and think for yourself.' But how can all this be said by any parent when parents could very well be slaves ( oblivious slaves even) to historical inertia and prejudices.
Do parents and families actually lie to their children then? Even if it is not their intention to lie but merely pass on what they perceive as truth? Well, all of us , including adults , can find our parents or members of our family that were instrumental in our raisng can try a practical experiment. Ask them a trivial question , something they might not likely know , such as the capital of Paraguay. Perhaps it is unknown to them and they might reply ' I don't know?' After you guys talk about it , ask them another question. 'What is goodness?' It would be interesting to see if there is an instant moment of silence and awkwardness in the room. Perhaps even a bit of discomfort, especially with them. It would also be interesting to see if they pursue the matter or show a desire to change the subject.
Why would the degree of drama and tension possibly go up? Weird question out of the blue? Maybe. But I think we can figure out that it might be more than that.
I'll stop here and post more later. Here are the points I wanted to demonstrate in this first part : * Culture is something that is taught to us and not originated by us. * Culture is a subjective principle * Those people who teach us culture ( typically our families and close communities) were also told about culture and didn't originate it. They merely transmit opinions and not facts. * Any virtue ( honor, courage , integrity , etc.) derived from culture is false since culture itself is not grounded in truth ( reality) but myth ( people's irrational ideas of morality). * Culture is primarly about conformity and not truth. It demonstrates this confomity principle even stronger when confronted by truth. * Culture changes depending on where your born and raised, therefore , it has nothing to do with something inherent within a newborn human being. * Religion is typically stronger present in societies which emphasize more on traditional culture.
Caveat:
* I don't think all culture is bad , wrong , or otherwise irrational. Culture which does not claim moral absolutes on baseless justifications ought to be considered valid and even advantageous for the advancement of our species. I'll talk about that a bit more later.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 1, 2008 11:39:57 GMT -5
Kane I have transferred that post here so all the data it relates to is easier to find versus opening separate topic for continuation replies which are detached from original post.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Nov 2, 2008 0:17:43 GMT -5
Culture and civility are overrated!
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Nov 2, 2008 6:34:41 GMT -5
It's a pleasure to read what you have to say Arthur. I think I have met the most intelligent person here at the forum and in r/l. Let's get married to keep the genes going :-)
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 2, 2008 12:56:37 GMT -5
I diagnose a dislike of the author against culture, and its implications on every day life, the restrictions it bears, etc... while true at first glance, we must note here, that this logic fully aligns with the new order directives.
Talking realistically, culture is a major factor in the development and integrity of any society. As a system a society has been evolved/corrected/transformed and been proven through the ages, so altering a crucial factor such as "culture" could have detrimental consequences for this society, if this change is not smoothly happening through the years, but rather is violently applied.
As en example, i consider the cut of the female genital organ cletoris in some arab countries, rather bad a thing to happen, however i consider even worse a foreign violent intervention to change this habit. this habit comes with a lot of other habits as a packet, which despite some disgusting details, is indeed proven in the years, so it is very hard to change, without breaking something else.
I could say a parallel to any cultural forceful change, is the example from biogenetic engineering, where we have a bunch of morons playing Gods, when in reality their random creations have not been subjected to the test of time and their adaptiveness to their potential environments.
Another parallel comes from mech engineering. One person might want to increase the boost level of his engine, without dealing with some other crucial factors, like compression ratio, air/fuel ratio, ignition timing, etc.... Just increasing the boost level will simply break the engine.
So, when talking about culture change, we simply talk about complete VIOLENT overhaul of a society, i.e. a state of complete OPPRESSION at first stage, i.e. complete LACK of SELF DETERMINATION, a crucial component of the definition of the term "democracy". In other words a situation between TWO parties where the first is THE SUPERIOR, deciding and performing this overhaul for others, and the second the subject of this re-engineering is the INFERIOR, passively accepting whatever the SUPERIOR decides. So any way, we will create a monster, which naturally will come back and bite us.
Clearly such "philosophical" "questions" , most often are considered the theoretical background of any foreign intervention.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Nov 2, 2008 15:49:31 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 3, 2008 7:47:58 GMT -5
Your writing doesn’t speak to me at all. To me it’s just a typically mainstream secular, condescending, patronizing, emo cry. Like a lot of lost souls you have more (stupid) questions than answers. I suggest you don’t ask questions in such a condescending manner without answering them yourself. To me, culture & religion is the most interesting thing in the world. I love all culture & all religions,… except western secularism & pop culture which I honestly find sickening. It’s also what is much more influential in the west (& the Balkans) than the traditional cultures you are s**tting on. Everything can be deconstructed & criticized. It’s easy to pretend that you don’t understand what a particular culture represents & destroy it’s meaning by promoting the relativity of it all, when instead you can find the beautiful & more truthful/honest meaning amongst it all.
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Post by malsor4life on Nov 4, 2008 0:24:04 GMT -5
Your writing doesn’t speak to me at all. To me it’s just a typically mainstream secular, condescending, patronizing, emo cry. Like a lot of lost souls you have more (stupid) questions than answers. I suggest you don’t ask questions in such a condescending manner without answering them yourself. To me, culture & religion is the most interesting thing in the world. I love all culture & all religions,… except western secularism & pop culture which I honestly find sickening. It’s also what is much more influential in the west (& the Balkans) than the traditional cultures you are s**tting on. Everything can be deconstructed & criticized. It’s easy to pretend that you don’t understand what a particular culture represents & destroy it’s meaning by promoting the relativity of it all, when instead you can find the beautiful & more truthful/honest meaning amongst it all. +1 The ironic part about these radical secular liberals is that they start out talking about how they hate when culture/religion is 'preached' to them by others, but by the end of the conversation thats precisely what they end up doing to you---shove their ideology down your throat. Ive met quite a few of these characters. They are the most condescending elitist pricks, who think they are above everyone and want the world to revolve around their views (even though the vast majority dont agree). I dont associate with these folks at all, id rather chill with a decent down-to-earth cultured individual LoL
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Post by kapetan on Nov 6, 2008 4:28:14 GMT -5
Ideas and observations about culture, aren't culture, therefore him critisizing culture isn't shoving culture down your throat. I don't agree with all he says, but he's critisizing alot of simple minded primitive people, and those same primtive people seem to be the ones getting most annoyed.
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Post by stambolov2025 on Nov 6, 2008 17:14:06 GMT -5
Maybe you don't believe in a god but that does not make the existence of one false or impossible. There is nothing wrong or harmful in believing in a higher power, it's people that give religion a bad name. People who become fanatical and take religion so strongly that they put blinders on themselves.
In all honesty I believe religion is a creation of man and therefore like man has the potential to be good and bad. This can be applied to culture as well. A culture as a whole cannot be called bad because that would be making a generalization of all the individuals who are part of the culture.
I hear where you are coming from, culture and religion have led to wars in the past, but it was not the cultural or religious aspects that led to war but man's personal convictions and biases. Man is the root of all evil, and an evil man will make evil anything he touches.
Although interesting and thought provoking your tone is too condescending especially in the story you were telling. If you're striving for objectivity, you don't say things like "should I say its a well done representation but illustrates a fictional character in a fairy tale? What if I told him the truth?"
Truth is in the eye of the beholder, just because you don't believe in a god does not make it a truth. Plus this kind of tone makes people turn their ears of you so really should change that. I liked the beginning and then you started making sweeping generalizations about culture.
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Post by SKORIC on Nov 7, 2008 0:02:13 GMT -5
Well said ^
Funnily enough the biggest killers in history were athiests.
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Post by Novus Dis on Nov 7, 2008 0:28:40 GMT -5
Or Pagan like Genghis Khan and Adolph Hitler. Ideas and observations about culture, aren't culture, therefore him critisizing culture isn't shoving culture down your throat. I don't agree with all he says, but he's critisizing alot of simple minded primitive people, and those same primtive people seem to be the ones getting most annoyed. This coming from the man who idolizes a nonexistent ethnicity/cultural/history. And yes, the lack of cultural is itself a culture just like the lack of government is itself a government.
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Post by proleteriat on Nov 7, 2008 0:30:03 GMT -5
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Post by Novus Dis on Nov 7, 2008 0:33:36 GMT -5
God = Why. Evolution = How.
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Post by malsor4life on Nov 7, 2008 2:04:22 GMT -5
Maybe you don't believe in a god but that does not make the existence of one false or impossible. There is nothing wrong or harmful in believing in a higher power, it's people that give religion a bad name. People who become fanatical and take religion so strongly that they put blinders on themselves. In all honesty I believe religion is a creation of man and therefore like man has the potential to be good and bad. This can be applied to culture as well. A culture as a whole cannot be called bad because that would be making a generalization of all the individuals who are part of the culture. I hear where you are coming from, culture and religion have led to wars in the past, but it was not the cultural or religious aspects that led to war but man's personal convictions and biases. Man is the root of all evil, and an evil man will make evil anything he touches. Although interesting and thought provoking your tone is too condescending especially in the story you were telling. If you're striving for objectivity, you don't say things like "should I say its a well done representation but illustrates a fictional character in a fairy tale? What if I told him the truth?" Truth is in the eye of the beholder, just because you don't believe in a god does not make it a truth. Plus this kind of tone makes people turn their ears of you so really should change that. I liked the beginning and then you started making sweeping generalizations about culture. Props to you, well stated.
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