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Post by SKORIC on Sept 26, 2008 1:40:03 GMT -5
lol that last map looks abit like NDH, yeh the 2 millions Serbs will really wanna live there
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Post by fukara on Sept 26, 2008 5:03:40 GMT -5
Why repeat the same mistakes all over again? Purpose 2: Islamic FBIH stays as it is, all other nations merge... Why have people in Yugoslavia that has more connections to afghanistan than Serbia, Croatia? So they think?!?!? Wait? In what is now FBiH in "teheran" as you like to call it, people protested against the nationalists in power before the war, and Raso then shot at them. Most of the churches are still standing... In Sarajevo, Tuzla you can get a picure of Tito, and shirts, in Banja Luka, I could only find Draza pics... So, easy there stefan, why dont you take a icon jerk of to it, and show a cross up your arse....
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Sept 26, 2008 7:37:54 GMT -5
I didnt mention war time nor Titos time, i vas talking about today, and dont give me that shit that u muslims "like" serbs as ur neighbour u hate us more than George Bush hates Bin Laden..
Typicall Bosniaks say : "Oh i have some serb friends and they dont like RS at all, those are good serbs" But when u have a different opinion then all the sudden u are GENOCIDIAL SERBIAN MURDERER bla bla bla..
If Sarajevo was like Teheran i would be happy, Teheran is so much more than Sarajevo..
Lol in Tuzla u can get a picture of Tito haha.. In Sarajevo u can also get terrorists like u dont get in BL
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Post by tito on Sept 26, 2008 8:15:43 GMT -5
No thanks, a greater Croatia is no better then a greater Serbia. Yugoslavia III cant have an ethnic majority. Personally I wouldn’t mind adding Albania, Kosova and Macedonia to your map. The new state-union would then be named Federal Democratic Republic of Ilirija As I said before: No Serbia no crime! Dont make me start posting videos here of crimes committed by Bosnian Muslims and their mujaheddin brothers against Serbs and Croats. And do not foget about the crimes committed by croatian forces towards you muslims. Whichever way you put it, with serbs or without, crimes always come with war. No such thing as an angel army. Maybe you misunderstood my post, my point was that Serbia(or more specifically it’s traditional obsession expansionism at the cost of it’s neighbors) destroyed Yugoslavia and is to be blamed for everything bad in the Balkans for the past 200 years since Serbia has been the main troublemaker in the Balkans since the day it was given it’s independence by the Turks. Basically any new state union in the Balkans is doomed to fail if Serbia is included, therefore Serbia must be excluded from the civilized world at any cost. Typicall Bosniaks say : "Oh i have some serb friends and they dont like RS at all, those are good serbs" But when u have a different opinion then all the sudden u are GENOCIDIAL SERBIAN MURDERER bla bla bla.. Naturally, RS is to Bosniaks what Jasenovac is to serbs. Don’t tell me that you don’t consider supporters of Jasenovac to be genocidal maniacs.
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Sept 26, 2008 9:25:02 GMT -5
You do know that George loves Bin Laden. If it wasn't for Bin Laden he wouldn't be able to finish his first term.
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Post by fukara on Sept 26, 2008 9:35:36 GMT -5
I didnt mention war time nor Titos time, i vas talking about today, and dont give me that s**t that u muslims "like" serbs as ur neighbour u hate us more than George Bush hates Bin Laden.. Typicall Bosniaks say : "Oh i have some serb friends and they dont like RS at all, those are good serbs" But when u have a different opinion then all the sudden u are GENOCIDIAL SERBIAN MURDERER bla bla bla.. If Sarajevo was like Teheran i would be happy, Teheran is so much more than Sarajevo.. Lol in Tuzla u can get a picture of Tito haha.. In Sarajevo u can also get terrorists like u dont get in BL What are you on about, did I talk about the RS? I did not, you bashed all bosniacs, gave the whole "islamic" BS... I said, that you will find more people with Tito pics in shops, Tito t shirts, and who liked/like Yugoslavia in Sarajevo Mostar and Tuzla then in BL, since I could not find a tito pic in BL I did not see "zivio tito" written on a wall, I could se draza pics on the other hand... you insulted us, so i insulted you, since you are so obsessed with religion, show a cross up your arse I dont like the RS, well I hate it, but I understand that Serbs support it, since they think that if the RS is gone, they will be dominated by Bosniacs, I would like BiH to be like it was before this war, and I wouldnt mind a south slav state.. RS is not doing you any good, and people like Hari talking about getting rid of RS, and thinking that bosniacs will dominate BiH is also not doing any good....Dodik just built up BL and around it, and didnt give acrap about the rest of RS... and stop with the "you" and "us" BS serbs and bosniacs are not to huge homogen groups who all think the same...... and yes, we all hate the RS, we look at it as you look at ustasas.. and you are the one who is hating, most of my posts are about how south slavs should work with each other, what do most serbs here say to me then "you are a turk" wtf WTF are you on about? Serbs are as nationalistc and stupid as all other Balkans peoples... lol.. not more not less
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Sept 26, 2008 13:46:13 GMT -5
Man who wouldnt want it to be like it was before? But if u dont agree with the things i said, then u arent like those i mentioned... Maybe i didnt explain my self, No i dont think every Bosniak is a nationalist bla bla bla... But majority of u guys HATE serbs, and thats quite clear.. Then again u say u want to live with us? How come?
This summer when i was in Sarajevo, the first fucking cevapdzinica i came in to there was a huge poster of Alija not Tito...
Then the guys that sat right behind me started to talk about serbs and shit how they should all die, and nato should bomb belgrade all over again... Quite nice to hear, that doesnt really change my opinion on "many" bosniaks...
What ive noticed is if Serbs agree on all of ur thouts on how bosnia should be, then he is a good serb, but if his opinion is something else all the sudden hes a chetnik...
And im not saing it to you, im just saying from my expirence.. And yes i know some bosniaks that dont like RS, but thats their opinion and i live with that...
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Post by karabin on Sept 27, 2008 0:16:00 GMT -5
. But majority of u guys HATE serbs, and thats quite clear.. Then again u say u want to live with us? How come? You are right about that statebriga. I have seen this so many times. Majority of Bosnian Muslims refer to all of us Serbs as chetniks. I have listened to their conversations many times. When they say chetnik they mean the average Serb. Now you raise an interesting point here about them wanting to integrate RS and FBiH into one functional country. Their interest is not for all of us to live together! It is quite the contrary. They are using these fake politics in an attempt to reunite BiH so that one day they can expell Serbs and croats and have a country of their own. It had been promised by the US to Alija but it did not quite work out that way. Unfortunately for them, with the US weakening and Russia and Asia strengthening that dream is unlikely to come true. Furthermore, they constantly keep on forgetting that Serbs and Croats were in Bosnia given the fact that b/muslims are a product of those two ethnic groups. Exactly right. I do not blame Bosnian Muslims for having Alija instead of tito on a poster. They fought for that ideal so they have the right to do so. What pisses me off though is when they start preaching their bulls**t how RS is a genocidialy created state, how it is fake, and that everything RS does is artificial and yet they themselves have created a state based on the same principle(s). Expelled Serbs and Croats from their parts of FBiH and refer to all of them as Chetniks and Ustase. Bosnian Muslims have performed ethnic cleansing as well. Thank Naser Oric for Srebrenica. In my eyes he is entirely responsible for the massacre. He wiped out dozens of Serb villages around the area yet your portrait him as a hero. If he is a hero for committing war crimes then so are Mladic and Karadzic. Long story cut short, if RS is a genocidial state then so is FBiH. We are either all guilty or all innocent. Whilst we cannot say that about all the bosnian muslims, it is evident the majority thinks so. Once again no problems with that as the majority of Serbs in RS have similar views about bosnian muslims. The irony here is that FBiH and their people with that attitude want to unite BiH and try to sell this story that, that would work out peacefully. Serbs have a similar attitude but we do not want to be part of BiH, well not anymore. I am very confident same can be said about croats. The only one hanging onto this is you guys. You let Yugoslavia die so I strongly suggest you let this die too. I have said it before I will say it again. If any of you guys mean any good to all the people in BiH then a unification is the wrong approach. Take look how "well" it worked out over the past 13 years. The three ethnic groups and their leaders cannot agree on simple energy deals not to mention cultural, social and academic ideals.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Sept 27, 2008 4:19:48 GMT -5
WORD^
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Sept 27, 2008 5:27:04 GMT -5
No thanks, a greater Croatia is no better then a greater Serbia. its not a greater croatia. its a federation of 3 states, with each state being allowed to break off through current democratic norms like a referendum., so no one is forced to be part of the federation if they feel the situation isnt good for them, socially, economically, democratically and otherwise.
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Post by fazlinho on Sept 27, 2008 6:55:22 GMT -5
No new yuga, never ever.
Anyways it's quite silly how Serbs say we hate. Noone hates, hating would be as an example not talking to any Serb because they are Serbs... so definitely that's not the case for Bosniaks. The fact is that we do despise anyone who supports genocide on us, the killing of us and the partition of our country, which happens to be the most of Serbs. You all claim we somehow hate you yet we've never done anything of what you did to us. You can convince yourselves how somehow we hate you with no reason, but one day you'll see the reality and what have you done to us.
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Post by fukara on Sept 27, 2008 8:16:52 GMT -5
Man who wouldnt want it to be like it was before? But if u dont agree with the things i said, then u arent like those i mentioned... Maybe i didnt explain my self, No i dont think every Bosniak is a nationalist bla bla bla... But majority of u guys HATE serbs, and thats quite clear.. Then again u say u want to live with us? How come? ... like those you mentioned, you just insulted bosniacs you didnt mention anyone, well most serbs are against the break up of yugoslavia, but most serbs hate bosniacs and croats... its the same thing a lot of serbs like yugoslavia since they are the biggest group in yugoslavia, a lot of bosniacs like BiH since they are the biggest group there, and its not like we have a second home, this is our only one... This summer when i was in Sarajevo, the first f**king cevapdzinica i came in to there was a huge poster of Alija not Tito... ... i just said you would find more tito posters in sarajevo and tuzla then BL something thats true.. anyways dont know why you went in there.... What ive noticed is if Serbs agree on all of ur thouts on how bosnia should be, then he is a good serb, but if his opinion is something else all the sudden hes a chetnik... And im not saing it to you, im just saying from my expirence.. And yes i know some bosniaks that dont like RS, but thats their opinion and i live with that... "ur" mine or bosniacs? you know what, I dont know what a "good serb" is , but if I look at you as chetnik or not doesnt have to do with the past, that we can not change, would you rather support someone that wanted BiH like it was before this war, bratstvo jedinstvo, or would you support RS? should these to options come at the same time, either in elections, war.. what ever.. when an other bosniac, bihvojska said that we should have BiH like before the war, serbs either didnt say anything or insulted him.... when i said that people in sarajevo prostested against all the nationalists before the war, and wanted them to step down, a serb said that i was not telling the truth? wtf who is hating here? and most people in the balkans are nationalists....
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Post by fukara on Sept 27, 2008 8:19:19 GMT -5
. But majority of u guys HATE serbs, and thats quite clear.. Then again u say u want to live with us? How come? You are right about that statebriga. I have seen this so many times. Majority of Bosnian Muslims refer to all of us Serbs as chetniks. I have listened to their conversations many times. When they say chetnik they mean the average Serb. Now you raise an interesting point here about them wanting to integrate RS and FBiH into one functional country. Their interest is not for all of us to live together! It is quite the contrary. They are using these fake politics in an attempt to reunite BiH so that one day they can expell Serbs and croats and have a country of their own. It had been promised by the US to Alija but it did not quite work out that way. Unfortunately for them, with the US weakening and Russia and Asia strengthening that dream is unlikely to come true. Furthermore, they constantly keep on forgetting that Serbs and Croats were in Bosnia given the fact that b/muslims are a product of those two ethnic groups. Exactly right. I do not blame Bosnian Muslims for having Alija instead of tito on a poster. They fought for that ideal so they have the right to do so. What pisses me off though is when they start preaching their bulls**t how RS is a genocidialy created state, how it is fake, and that everything RS does is artificial and yet they themselves have created a state based on the same principle(s). Expelled Serbs and Croats from their parts of FBiH and refer to all of them as Chetniks and Ustase. Bosnian Muslims have performed ethnic cleansing as well. Thank Naser Oric for Srebrenica. In my eyes he is entirely responsible for the massacre. He wiped out dozens of Serb villages around the area yet your portrait him as a hero. If he is a hero for committing war crimes then so are Mladic and Karadzic. Long story cut short, if RS is a genocidial state then so is FBiH. We are either all guilty or all innocent. Whilst we cannot say that about all the bosnian muslims, it is evident the majority thinks so. Once again no problems with that as the majority of Serbs in RS have similar views about bosnian muslims. The irony here is that FBiH and their people with that attitude want to unite BiH and try to sell this story that, that would work out peacefully. Serbs have a similar attitude but we do not want to be part of BiH, well not anymore. I am very confident same can be said about croats. The only one hanging onto this is you guys. You let Yugoslavia die so I strongly suggest you let this die too. I have said it before I will say it again. If any of you guys mean any good to all the people in BiH then a unification is the wrong approach. Take look how "well" it worked out over the past 13 years. The three ethnic groups and their leaders cannot agree on simple energy deals not to mention cultural, social and academic ideals. wtf are you on about, first of all, naser was a regiment commander, or briage, if what he did is the reason srebrenica happened, then, why was prijedor killed? why foca visegrad... so him killing serbs, makes all bosniacs in that town have to die... by your logic... during oluja.... bosniacs and croats should have killed all serbs.. second... when we were united before this war, we were better. so dont belive all the things RTRS tells you.... and russia? wtf... if the west watned to get tird of the RS they would have done so.... and russia does not care about you.. get over it
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Post by fukara on Sept 27, 2008 8:20:54 GMT -5
and we look at RS as you looked at NDH.... it almost got us all killed/drven out of BiH
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Post by SKORIC on Sept 27, 2008 13:18:20 GMT -5
Naturally, RS is to Bosniaks what Jasenovac is to serbs. Don’t tell me that you don’t consider supporters of Jasenovac to be genocidal maniacs. lol dont make that comparison when you've posted this pic before to provoke. Thanks for proving yourself that you are a genocidal maniac
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 27, 2008 15:33:39 GMT -5
Can you explain the colors tito? He plan can be summed up as "Yugoslavia without Yugoslavia" or Yugoslavia without the people who defended Yugoslavia last two times. Yugoslavia in the past has only been held together by dictatorships, whether it was King Aleksandar or Tito. And always ended in bloodshed. (1940s, 1990s) It would only lead to another war. Its better that we just stay seperate.. To be fair, the first Yugoslavia wouldn't have ended in bloodshed had it not been invaded by the Axis. The kings knew what they were doing (i.e. that a strong central government is the only way to keep Yugoslavia together) unlike Tito (i.e. a weak Serbia means a strong Yugoslavia.)
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Post by karabin on Sept 27, 2008 23:35:17 GMT -5
No new yuga, never ever. Anyways it's quite silly how Serbs say we hate. Noone hates, hating would be as an example not talking to any Serb because they are Serbs... so definitely that's not the case for Bosniaks. Seriously, snap out of it. I have no intention(s) on insulting you as you seem to be a reasonable guy/girl, but hatred is present amongst all ethnic groups in BiH. I have seen it too many times. The scars of war are too deep for all sides and our mediterranean mentality is not really helping to overcome that. Whilst we cannot speak on behalf for all bosnian muslims, not once have I heard one refer to serbs as serbs instead of dogs and chetniks. Now I have you here trying to tell me that we are ready to integrate again. Unfortunate as it is, you will not find unity amongst the three ethnic groups in BiH. We are way too different and this war has knocked the last nail in BiH's coffin. The same can be said for us Serbs. We too despite anyone who supports genocide on us. 30,000 Serb civilians have died during the conflict and no-one has taken responsibility for that. Just because the media was pro muslim and did not report genocide carried out against serbs it don't mean it did not happen. They uncover mass graves around srebrenica and automatically tag the bodies as muslims. They could just as well been Serbs. My father was in war. In early stages of war Bosnian Muslim soldiers rarely had uniforms. After battle they would collect their firearms and bury the bodies all together if no request by enemy command has been made to collect them. Years later that grave is discovered, no weapons, no uniforms and bang conclusion: they are civillians. Then you people wonder why Serbs are angered and do not want to be part of this BiH. Never have I stated that Serbs have not carried out war crimes. By far we are not angles I can tell you that. Give a nobody a weapon and he thinks he is king dick and that he is god and can decide who lives or dies. The average Serb does not support Genocide nor the killing of civillians. But when you have political institutions such as the Hague whose sole purpose is to convict Serbs whilst other criminals (Oric) are ruled as "innocent" when we all know what they did, then obviously Karadzic and Mladic will get tremendous support. I remember reading an article saying "Naser svi smo uz tebe". Then you go about accusing Serbs for supporting Karadzic and genocide. Your people are doing the same as we speak. So until we get rid of double standards, I see little achievements amongst us. You then talk about partitioning "your" country. How the f**k is that your country? Please explain that to me. If you can prove to me that whole of BiH belongs to Bosnian Muslims and they do not originate from Serbs and Croats then I will take back everything I have said. Well you all claim not to hate us yet you refer to us as dogs and chetniks. You have never done anything to us as we did to you? What sources do you go by? CNN? BBC? The media was on your side. Go onto youtube and type in: Crimes against christians in Bosnia and you will see what has been done to us. I know and see what Serbs have done to you. I do not nor will I try to JUSTIFY. I do NOT support war crimes. But I am hopefull that maybe you too will one day see that you are not all that innocent as your leaders would like you to believe and that not all Serbs are criminals who mean you harm.
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Post by markosijekira on Sept 27, 2008 23:53:42 GMT -5
"We are way too different and this war has knocked the last nail in BiH's coffin." Please forgive me if I sound ignorant, but from my observation Bosniaks, Serbs and Croats from Bosnia sometimes come across to me as If they have more in common with each other then say the Croats and Serbs from Croatia and Serbia, religious affiliation excluded. I don’t know what it is, sometimes I mistake Bosniaks and Bosnian Serbs when I hear them talk, because they use the same slang words and dialect, and they always hang out with each other here in the Diaspora. I have to know their names to be sure of who is who. My neighbor across the street is a Bosnian Croat, and thought he was a Bosniak until we got introduced...Josip he’s name was, then I knew Like I said, I probably have no clue, i'm a ignorant Primorac you know, just a observation I made.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 28, 2008 1:07:11 GMT -5
Everyone despies anyone who wants to do them horrific harm. It's not a unique outlook.
See this is the problem with you hardcore types of guys. You just don't listen to reason and anytime someone says something you don't like (like a figure) you claim "conspiracy". You keep yelling out things that are laughable and that nobody takes seriosly (again, figures). 30,000 Serb civilians? SERIOSLY? Lol
Once and for all lets put this bulls**t to rest.
The following figures are from the source we all accept, the Bosnian Book of the Dead, which was researched by a very multi-ethnic staff and overlooked and confirmed by international experts from all over. This is the one that came up with the 97,000 figure.
According to the group's research, 97,207 people were killed during the Bosnian war. Of those, about 60 percent were soldiers and 40 percent civilians. Some 65 percent of those killed were Bosnian Muslims, followed by 25 percent Serbs and more than 8 percent Croats. Of the civilians, 83 percent were Bosnian Muslims, 10 percent were Serbs and more than 5 percent were Croats, followed by a small number of others such as Jews or Roma.
So out of the 100,000 dead, 40% were civilians, which is 40,000 civilians dead. 83% of that 40,000 are Bosniak. So how is it possible there is 30,000 dead Serb civilians? It's not. Stop.
Since it clearly states the total amount of Serb dead is 25% out of that 100,000 figure, that means there is 25,000 dead serbs, soldiers and civilians combined. End of story.
www.birn.eu.com/en/88/10/3377/ www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/21/europe/EU-GEN-Bosnia-War-Victims.php
Do not try to rise your tragedy on the same level as ours. It won't happen. The numbers will never match. Both are horrible, but the numbers will never be equal. It's also a fact around 90% of war crimes were commited by Serbs. That is if you trust CIA reports.Um, nobody buries anyone with their weapons. And I hope you realize they don't figure out who is civilian who is soldier simply by what they were buried in LOL. Especialy not 10 years later.
As for not wanting to be part of BiH, that's individual choice, Plenty of Serbs did want to and plenty of Serbs defended Sarajevo from what they saw as an agressor. Jovan Divjak, Dragan Vikic and his unit which was around 20% Serb and 20% Croat etc. They are now legendary heroes to us. The issue is nobody will let you litteraly take half a country down the middle because "you don't want to be Bosnian". Move then. One second you love bosnia so much, next second youre not bosnian youre serbian and want to break it. Serbs have carried out the MOST crimes. THAT is what you need to face. Oric spent time in prison, the only argument there is that you don't like how long he spent in prison. We don't control the Hague either btw. Again, been proven there was no ridiculously high numbers like "3,000 serbs dead by naser oric's hands". It just isn't reality and only SOME serbs will say it is. Again, Karadzic is a politican and leader, Oric was nothing but a guy who got cought up in a war and led a small group of soldiers. Also you were seen as the agressor and that will always put the guy defending in the better light. It's just reality. Naser Oric may be alot of things, who knows, but he defended his people from your people who tried to destroy them. It's as simple as that. Weather he's a good man or not is pretty irrelevant. Its only natural people who lost half their family and especialy victims of genocide will call him a hero. Jadranko Prlic called him a hero.Err, you just said you don't want to be Bosnian. You want to split but still have Bosnia be "your country". Lol Some see it as "our" country since we wanted an independant Bosnia and we fought for it. You fought for something called Republika Srpska and some fought for Greater Serbia. Serbs opposed split from Yugoslavia. In other words, it exists because of the Bosnian army while most of yours did everything they could to make sure it doesnt exist. You can see how we might feel that then. But it exists. Not just because of Bosniaks, but because of Bosnians who fought for it. There was plenty Serbs and Croats with us who saw themself as BOSNIAN first....since..guess what...THAT'S THEIR BIRTHPLACE.
As for the last tpart about who was what a 1000 years ago, that's completly hillarity and internet idiocy that has no relevance in present day reality and politics. Alot of today's Bosnian Serbs were Vlachs and some were Catholics before and converted (there is plnety of cases in medieval times) so what? Does it matter today? No. A group of people who moved to Bosnia a 100 years ago can call it "their" country. Anyone who is from it can.
Look like it or not but we are the dominant face of bosnia and have been for a long long time in one way or another. I dont mean islam. But Bosnjastvo. not serbdom.
I usualy call people chetniks when they act like chetniks. I would never call Tifa a chetnik. I would never call Divjak a chetnik. I would never call Dragan a chetnik. Or alot of Serbs I knew in my hometown.
No we are not innocent, just the ones with the cleanest hands OVERALL when it was all said and done. That's just reality. You guys took the cake, but yea we all did bad stuff.
I've never for a second thought ALL serbs or any nation was *insert something*.
You'd have to be a moron for that. And I am sorry for anyone you lost, I can't change the past.
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Post by tito on Sept 28, 2008 6:32:51 GMT -5
Naturally, RS is to Bosniaks what Jasenovac is to serbs. Don’t tell me that you don’t consider supporters of Jasenovac to be genocidal maniacs. lol dont make that comparison when you've posted this pic before to provoke. I believe you have taken that picture out of context, it was not posted in order to provoke. In any case my argument stands.
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