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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 19:38:18 GMT -5
Bosnia was there 1000 yeas before the creation of the fake state named Yugoslavia.
Ok can we forget about how many years something was in place as its got nothing to do with the situation now.
I think the land itself is much older than a thousand years no matter who was living on it.
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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 19:45:14 GMT -5
Second, it says under Dayton that one of its goals has to be to return populations to their pre-war regions.
Dayton is not a success until that happens.
All peoples ? lets say Serbs do not want to go back to pre war regions and some Bosniaks feel they cannot be safe in majority regions also the ones that have now built a life in regions not of there own pre war, i doubt they would want to sell up and start again etc etc. How can Dayton then ever be successful, the reality now is what we have, and there is a majority of peoples that do not want to be governed by a certain other peoples, in that case surely the UN charter now as to apply ?
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Post by bosanskinovi on Mar 2, 2009 19:50:06 GMT -5
Vinyak, it seems you asked this question with your mind already made up, so no answer we give you will satisfy you.
BiH is governed by Dayton and Dayton was brokered under the premisses manijak mentioned. You can talk about disregarding it all you want, but Bosniaks and the international community dont agree with that. And there's the answer to why Serbs cant get independence. You dont have to like it or agree with it, but that is the answer.
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Post by tito on Mar 2, 2009 19:54:38 GMT -5
Ok can we forget about how many years something was in place as its got nothing to do with the situation now. I think the land itself is much older than a thousand years no matter who was living on it. We can not forget 1000 years of Bosnian statehood and the fact that the river Drina is a holy border between our two civilizations. Bosnian patriots can never allowed Serbia to expand west of Drina and the longer Serbs who live west of Drina refuse to accept this historic fact the closer they will come to total extermination: Total population of RS2006 - 1.168.000 2007 - 1.155.000 2008 - 1.109.000 www.rzs.rs.ba/Publikacije/AnketaORadnojSnazi/AnketaORadnojSnazi1.pdf59 000 lost in only 3 years! And here is the really interesting part: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_State_of_Croatia#DemographicsIn 1941 there was 1,848,000 Serbs livng west of the Drina river and some 4,817,000 Croats and Bosniaks. Today the number of Croats and Bosniaks is around 6,5-7 millions west of the Drina river, Serbs on the other hand still choose to dream about expanding Serbia’s western border. Why is that? Is it not enough that RSK, Kosova, Macedonia and even Montenegro was lost, what good will it do to push the remaining 1 million BH-serbs into extermination? |
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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 20:28:38 GMT -5
Vinyak, it seems you asked this question with your mind already made up, so no answer we give you will satisfy you.
Nah not at all can you not see that every answer then has many questions its not a simple as BiH for Bosnain's
3 peoples make up BiH Bosniaks,Croats and Serbs without either one BiH does not exist you have one of the peoples who will not live under the governance of the other it aint as simple as stating (wether true or not) about who was there first etc all of these type of answers are invalid in the current situation.
So it comes back to the original question. In the times we are in now, you cannot force a people to accept/live under a rule they reject nor can you force them out, so the UN charter (in my opinion) is valid you want RS abolished Serbs will not give it.
As far as statistics, tito I told you on the Croat forum, things change as situations change. More jobs and a future people will move back.
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Post by tito on Mar 2, 2009 20:32:23 GMT -5
BH-Serbs will move back from Serbia to BiH??? Do you honestly believe that? Why are they not moving back to Croatia then, it has much better economy then BiH and Serbia.. In 1941 there was 1,848,000 Serbs livng west of the Drina river and some 4,817,000 Croats and Bosniaks. Today the number of Croats and Bosniaks is around 6,5-7 millions west of the Drina river, Serbs on the other hand still choose to dream about expanding Serbia’s western border. Why is that? And what good will it do to push the remaining 1 million BH-serbs into extermination? |
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Post by bosanskinovi on Mar 2, 2009 20:36:39 GMT -5
These are the key words; in your opinion. You and Serbs think that, Bosniaks and the IC think otherwise. You can argue about it till your face turns blue, but that is the reason why Serbs dont just declare independence.
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Post by manijak on Mar 2, 2009 20:40:37 GMT -5
halo ba...do you listen? Under Dayton, it is agreed that people should go back to their homes PRE-WAR. That means no majority in any one region should be there.
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Post by boscrocop on Mar 2, 2009 20:49:31 GMT -5
Why can't we just flip a Pokemon card to decide the faith of the Balkans.. if the picture side is up, then Bosnia gets a coast, and Raska if the backside lands up, then Serbs are free to do as they wish right up to Slovenia  |
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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 20:54:22 GMT -5
Why are they not moving back to Croatia then, it has much better economy then BiH and Serbia..
I think you know the answer at this moment and time there is no conditions for Serbs to return.
halo ba...do you listen? Under Dayton, it is agreed that people should go back to their homes PRE-WAR. That means no majority in any one region should be there.
Yes I know how to read I have already answered that go back a few posts.
You and Serbs think that, Bosniaks and the IC think otherwise.
Thanks for that ...That is why I asked the freakin question in the beginning. lol
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Post by tito on Mar 2, 2009 21:03:34 GMT -5
then Serbs are free to do as they wish Serbs are already free, but that does not mean that they will ever be allowed to steal lands west of the Drina river. |
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Post by tito on Mar 2, 2009 21:23:32 GMT -5
Why are they not moving back to Croatia then, it has much better economy then BiH and Serbia..I think you know the answer My guess is that most of them belong to the majority of ethnic serb voters in Serbia who voted for the candidate of the serb radical party of war criminal Vojislav Seselj who still dreams about greater Serbia west of the Drina river where all serbs would be united in one state(much like Hitler who wanted to unite all the Germans in one state at the expense of all countries standing in his way). So it is logical to assume that they will not go back to Croatia for as long as Serbia remains east of the Drina river. And my question remains unanswered: Is it not enough that RSK, Kosova, Macedonia and even Montenegro was lost, what good will it do to push the remaining 1 million BH-serbs into extermination? |
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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 21:51:05 GMT -5
My guess is You chose to omit some of my answer and reply to your own, in that circumstance do you really expect a serious response ?  Is it not enough that RSK, Kosova, Macedonia and even Montenegro This about BiH and the question I asked stay on topic. what good will it do to push the remaining 1 million BH-serbs into extermination?
Extermination of a million people huh ? you wish......but it aint going to happen, again stay on topic If you aint got anything intelligent to say then stay out of my thread ....kthnxbye.
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Post by kapetan on Mar 2, 2009 22:17:17 GMT -5
Vinjak if you were a Bosniak it would be painfully obvious why they don't have that right. Belive me, the ONLY, I repeat ONLY reason it seems "fair" is cuz you're a Serb of course you want the best for yours. But in reality it would be the ulltimate insult to injury.
The history of Serbs in Bosnia, the facts and events of the war and the the manner this entity was created, all those have more then enough points in them to show why this is NOTHING like Kosovo and NOTHING like breakup of Yugoslavia. If people get past their own selifsh personal WISHES they'd see that. We never had a problem with Serbs who were normal. Normal as in, we shoulda all worked together to make a great country. However you STILL dont want that, you STILL act like a chicken with its head cut off fearing every move we make, so what you expect us to do but wish for the death of that entity which is keeping us in the dark ages?
Bosnia has never been chopped up like that and it never will be for long. The 49% you want to take is just a random half of land thats always been core Bosnian land, weather it was the Bosnian kingdom, the Ottoman province or the Austrian. Everyone respected it's borders. You will do the same. Insted of wanting a "entity" that isn't even 20 years old to suddenly bcome more "real" and "important" then a established country with over 1000 years. Don't take out your Kosovo frustrations on us. PLus its been said...it cant survive on its own. It cant, it wont. Doesnt matter what you think or how 'good" its doing now, it cant.
Europe and America SAID IT CLEARLY. SIf you force us to choose between RS and BIH, WE CHOOSE BIH.
You guys have your "reserve" country of Serbia PLUS you want Bosnia. Wtf do we have? We only have Bosnia and we wont let it go just like you wont let half of Serbia go.
Your INAT is pushing you into extinction, becuz like its been said in 20 years Bosniaks will be like 65% of the country, while Serbs die off like flies. In a 100 years you might not even exist on those lands. All cuz of your spite.
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Post by tito on Mar 2, 2009 22:21:24 GMT -5
Extermination of a million people huh ? you wish......but it aint going to happen Why not? When my grandfather was a young soldier in 1941 there was 1,848,000 Serbs living west of the Drina river and some 4,817,000 Croats and Bosniaks. Today the number of Croats and Bosniaks is around 6,5-7 millions west of the Drina river, Serbs on the other hand are down to 1 million, I showed you the latest statistics from RS: 2006 - 1.168.000 2007 - 1.155.000 2008 - 1.109.000 Today Serbia is loosing 30-35 thousand people every year so it will continue to import Serbs from BiH and since 46000 where lost in RS 2007-2008 then it might not be unrealistic to expect a total extermination by 2041. All because of one very fanatic ideal much similar to Hitlers. |
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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 22:29:17 GMT -5
Europe and America SAID IT CLEARLY. SIf you force us to choose between RS and BIH, WE CHOOSE BIH.
That is why I asked the question if you take all the emotion out of this then how can Europe and USA clearly deny a peoples right to self determination ? considering it is clear in the UN's charter, this is what I do not get and why I ask the question.
If possible could someone take off there BiH boots for a second and answer in the fashion that I asked the question, without emotion.
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Post by tito on Mar 2, 2009 22:42:41 GMT -5
If possible could someone take off there BiH boots Dario, MiG, Bob, "Zadnji Bosanca", karabin, mapko and the other traitors of BiH. |
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Post by kapetan on Mar 2, 2009 23:00:58 GMT -5
Europe and America SAID IT CLEARLY. SIf you force us to choose between RS and BIH, WE CHOOSE BIH.That is why I asked the question if you take all the emotion out of this then how can Europe and USA clearly deny a peoples right to self determination ? considering it is clear in the UN's charter, this is what I do not get and why I ask the question. If possible could someone take off there BiH boots for a second and answer in the fashion that I asked the question, without emotion. I guess you didnt read my post. They DON'T deserve that right. That ENTITY DOESNT deserve the right. I mean honestly are you that oblivious? Rewarding the people who commited genoicde and built their "entity" on it? Some no name barely 20 years old creation? That deserves to be its own country? That cant even sustain itself economicly and is of no use to anyone in Europe? Get real. Americans dont do tings out of spite, they do them for interests and money. And Rs as a country doesn't serve anyone, it's useless. |
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Post by vinjak on Mar 2, 2009 23:19:21 GMT -5
they DON'T deserve that right.
Well it does say All peoples I didnt think that matters of law etc related to who deserves what, nowhere did I see the words only if deserved.
nor have I seen the words only if they have been in that spot for a thousand years
or any other argument that members have so far put forward.
So it seems no one can actually answer my question.
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Post by karabin on Mar 3, 2009 0:11:21 GMT -5
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