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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 14:10:55 GMT -5
Well take all that away, and just leave the Macedonia name issue. We all know as Albanians that the real Macedonians were a mix of Illyrians and other tribes at that time, so no Slavic influence, of course a lot of Greek influence since they were neighbors just like we were.
There is no way in hell they should be able to keep that name and steal the history from the real Macedonians, whether they were illyrian or greek, or some other tribe. (or a mix)
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Oct 15, 2008 14:29:53 GMT -5
Hey ilirdardani... macedonians are bulgarians origin and they are not mixed with albanians or greeks.
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 15, 2008 14:37:00 GMT -5
Everyone has to look out for themselves.Now ask yourselves what have we to lose by recognizing Fyrom? Maybe Greece will get offended, maybe not..If they do...I am 100% sure they will make it extremely difficult for you to enter in the E.U. and the nationalists Greeks will somehow make it more difficult than it already is for the 750 thou Albanians living in Greece..... Do we have any Albanians that are living in Greece, to let us know their opinions on this...? It's nice and dainty when you are living in the comforts of your Brooklyn homes to make judgements on others that have to live with it. Walk a mile in their shoes.... I personally don't want them to be recgonized as "Macedonians" because it is absolutely appalling just from a history perspective and what's more disgusting they are recognized as a minority in my hometown. I am not living in Greece now, but I have lived there before and in the BX, not BK though lol. I just think Greece should show a little support in the international community towards Albania, especially with the whole Kosovo issue, the truth is Greece doesn't need any support from Albania because you have the whole world on your side, Albania on the other hand can use some support from the country that is admired by the east west and all the rest. lol
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 14:39:53 GMT -5
I think Greece should recognize Kosovo.... I am sure in the next year they will. I also think that Greece hasn't yet not because of upsetting Serbia..but not to upset the Russians who they are doing business with.
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 14:42:32 GMT -5
It shows a rather interesting political divide. Albanians from the south here in the forum: FanNoli, Libofsha, Ngadhi, me and I would bet a number of the old Albs from the south, side with Macedonia on the issue while Albanians from Kosova are entirely on the side of Greece on the issue. Ilirida Albs seem to also be somewhat divided depending on the antagonism felt towards the Macedonians but they are far more on the Greek side simply as to be against Macedonia.
Albos from the south definitely would love to see a rift with Greece since their primary antagonism is with them while Albs from Kosova may feel more on the Greek side due to the fact that they are further away.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 14:46:46 GMT -5
^ Yeah that and until the maces start claiming Scani...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 14:49:02 GMT -5
I dont care who claims who. I have read the sources and know for myself. Claims on heroes is largely a byproduct of antagonism. Neither the average Greek nor Macedonian care much about Scanderbeg, but when the issue of Albanians starts, thats when the claims begin.
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 14:51:12 GMT -5
Hey ilirdardani... macedonians are bulgarians origin and they are not mixed with albanians or greeks. Now they are, of course they're a mix of Bulgarian and Serbian. (basically slav) But centuries ago when the Ancient Macedonia existed, the Slavs weren't even around, so the real Macedonians were either Illyrian, or Greek, or a mix, or some other tribe. What they were doesn't really matter, what matters is that we do not allow these FYROMs to steal the history of the Balkans and steal the name, which doesn't belong to them. I'm much more comfortable with the Greeks claiming the Macedonians because it was only them and us that have lived in the Balkans for thousands of years, there's no other way to see it.
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 14:53:05 GMT -5
I think Greece should recognize Kosovo.... I am sure in the next year they will. I also think that Greece hasn't yet not because of upsetting Serbia..but not to upset the Russians who they are doing business with. I agree, the recognition will come within a few months. Possible around 6 months or so?! It'll be great though, and at least for me it'll be another milestone, the Greek recognition is important and ranks right up there with Croatia, Montenegro and Albania.
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libofsha
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Post by libofsha on Oct 15, 2008 14:54:32 GMT -5
i would rather have friendly relations with macs than greeks I would rather have friendly relations with Greece than with FYROM. At least Greece is in EU, and they're a much stronger nation. ;D why befriend a cold blooded reptile who has done nothing but plot, scheme and contrive ill intent towards us?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 14:55:19 GMT -5
That phrase can be uttered by about 10% of the Albanian population...the rest get their history lessons from their next door neighbour..... so you see where it leaves us..... they will believe what they here.... they are not all lucky to be studying in upper N.Y.
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 14:56:25 GMT -5
Anyway, what I think Albania should do is present Greece with an ultimatum: Tell them that we refuse unilateral cooperation and friendship between the two countries and tell them that:
We will support those who support us, if you wish to support Serbia on Kosovo, as you have in the past, we will recognize Macedonia, which now shows support towards us.
Then let Greece do what it must, scream, shout, yell, threaten. It wont be heavy unless we bend to them. Albania should then just drop it and let Greece do what it feels necessary. I guarantee that if Albanians dont bend and allow Greece to throw what it can, the EU will eventually force Greece to quit for the sake of stability.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 14:59:59 GMT -5
Yeah..Greece will quit for Albania......
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 15:03:20 GMT -5
If it was in Greece's hands, it would continue until Albania was starved to death, but thats why we have the EU. EU will not let Greece disrupt its Balkan plans to such a great extent just for a minor recognition which will simply look like bullying on the part of Greece. If Albania takes the political & economical beatings for as long as it can, it may send Albania back 5-8 years and many will lose out heavily, but if Albania holds on, it will inevitably start to look like the victim and Greece will be put in the moral wrong.
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 15:03:25 GMT -5
I would rather have friendly relations with Greece than with FYROM. At least Greece is in EU, and they're a much stronger nation. ;D why befriend a cold blooded reptile who has done nothing but plot, scheme and contrive ill intent towards us? If they were that cold they would expel the 700,000+ Albs that live in Greece.
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 15:07:36 GMT -5
And Ilir, unless something twists Greece's arm enough as to make it cry or unless enough of a political motive arises, it will not recognize Kosovo. Greece is not Macedonia and Montenegro. It has BY FAR, the most powerful economy in the Balkans and a relatively strong one in EU, its in a position 10x above those paper entities. Its already a EU member and a NATO member.
And think of what it would do to various economic departments in the country, such as agriculture. Those business owners and farmers have gotten used to Albanian labor. On top of that, by now those Albs could probably be replaced... yea, by Somalians, Pakistanis and Afghans. I wonder if Greece would prefer them...
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libofsha
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Post by libofsha on Oct 15, 2008 15:16:58 GMT -5
why befriend a cold blooded reptile who has done nothing but plot, scheme and contrive ill intent towards us? If they were that cold they would expel the 700,000+ Albs that live in Greece. you can't just expel an immigrant community out of a whim, there international conventions which all nations adhere to and have signed up to, how many greek immigrants are there scattered across the globe? having said that...are you familiar with the infamous 'cleap up', 'fshesa' operations, conducted to rid greece off albanian immigrants? that was a clear human rights and migrant international law violation, lets not talk about random beatings, border torture and indiscriminate killings.
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Post by diurpaneus on Oct 15, 2008 15:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 15:21:26 GMT -5
And I bet you a number of Greek politicians continue this whole 'Macedonia' issue to such an extent because the demos is heavy into it, same with the Macedonian politicians. I dont think the politicians would want to spoil the movement of things that much.
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 15, 2008 15:22:07 GMT -5
It shows a rather interesting political divide. Albanians from the south here in the forum: FanNoli, Libofsha, Ngadhi, me and I would bet a number of the old Albs from the south, side with Macedonia on the issue while Albanians from Kosova are entirely on the side of Greece on the issue. Ilirida Albs seem to also be somewhat divided depending on the antagonism felt towards the Macedonians but they are far more on the Greek side simply as to be against Macedonia. Albos from the south definitely would love to see a rift with Greece since their primary antagonism is with them while Albs from Kosova may feel more on the Greek side due to the fact that they are further away. you are generalizing or you don't know that many Albanians from the south plus this forum is not a good example...not by a long shot.....
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