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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2008 15:26:20 GMT -5
No s**t it was a generalization, but generalization have truth in them, however the support shown for Macedonia is clear in that 90% of people say Maqedoni. On top of that polls have shown that the majority of Albs from Albania support Macedonia on the issue. This is the only time, however, I have spoken to Albs about the issue. In fact I dont remember even bringing up the issue at home. I dont think the political divide is that heavy though as I dont think Kosova Albanians have any real Greek support in them but rather simply want to go against Macedonia. But what does it matter anyway, Macedonians were Illyrians... right?
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SuperAlbanian
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Post by SuperAlbanian on Oct 15, 2008 18:34:46 GMT -5
I don't applause Greeks for their human rights when it comes to Albanians starting back before WW2 but the FYROMS are just as bad. Albs in Albania do not know FYROMS as well as we do. The FYROMS are just as bad as Serbs. As Albanians we have to remember that Greece does accept 1/2 a million of Albanians in Greece and these are the same Albanians who are sending money back home and helping their families. I don't see why there is so much negativity thrown at Greece. Yes some Greeks are very anti Albanian but I would probably guess that the reason of this is their lack of knowledge and basing their facts on what the media tells them. Greeks did bad things to Chams but today Greece itself has no intention to do harm to Albanians but FYROM does and that is the difference. If FYROM had the chance to throw Albs out of their fake country, they would... Greeks if they really wanted they could easily send all the Albanian working migrants back to Albania. Although progress is being made in FYROM we should not step closer towards them until the day (if ever) the Ohrid Agreement is fully implemented.
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 18:36:56 GMT -5
I don't applause Greeks for their human rights when it comes to Albanians starting back before WW2 but the FYROMS are just as bad. Albs in Albania do not know FYROMS as well as we do. The FYROMS are just as bad as Serbs.Exactly, they have worked with the Serbs for the last hundred years to eliminate the Albanians, plus made deals with Turkey to send hundreds of thousands of them to Turkey. At least the Albanians in Greece remained there. (except the Chams) I know they get treated bad, etc, but most refugees in Europe do get treated bad, plus there are some that deserve it.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 15, 2008 19:40:27 GMT -5
You know what? FYROM got a very smart move...by recognizing Kosovo is expecting the same in return...(and is very smart of them with one stone killing two birds...recognition from Albania and Kosovo). Greece by the other hand threatens Albania if Albania recognizes Macedonia they are going to vote against Albania in EU. I congratulate FORYM-ians for this smart move, but we have to have another one, smarter...Albania will wait to recognize FYROM and press Greece not to do anything against Albania to join EU...on the contrary, Albania will recognize Macedonia. Kosovo on the other hand, can take advantage of this and send a "thank you" note to FYROM Government, where saying "if FYROM improves the rights of Albanians, the recognition MAY be considered"... Kosovo and Albania can also press Greece to either recognize Kosovo, or then, both, Albania and Kosovo will recognize Macedonia....(and Serbia...what's left of it anyway) ;D
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 19:45:13 GMT -5
Look guys..it's 2008... Albanians are not treated bad anymore... I know... I have seen countless cases.... I of course are not talking about criminals... those will always be treated badly no matter what nationality they are.
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 19:56:37 GMT -5
Look guys..it's 2008... Albanians are not treated bad anymore... I know... I have seen countless cases.... I of course are not talking about criminals... those will always be treated badly no matter what nationality they are. Exactly, those people that do bad things in other countries, like steal, take part in criminal activities, they deserve to rot in prisons. And you cannot hide the fact that there are lot of Albanians that do those things whether it is in Greece, or Germany, or any other western European country. Of course they're not the majority but they automatically give a bad impression and then things do down the hill after that. Just like Kosovo has to work with Serbia in the future, we have some things to take care of first, like recognition etc, Albania needs to work with Greece much more. You're neighbors, plus it's 21st century, there is no need to be hostile towards one another.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 15, 2008 20:00:12 GMT -5
oh...almost forgot...wasn't FYROM that didn't open the borders for Kosovars when they were fleeing from the Serb genocide?
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 20:08:58 GMT -5
oh...almost forgot...wasn't FYROM that didn't open the borders for Kosovars when they were fleeing from the Serb genocide? We went to Macedonia, my family was one of the last to leave the country, kind of stupid we stayed so much but my dad didn't want to leave. Kind of stubborn. We stayed in Fushe Kosova when the NATO bombardment started, for about a week, then went to Prishtina where my father and mother have sisters and brothers, etc, so stayed there for about a month and a half and then left for Macedonia. The Serbian police that controlled the border before entering Macedonia were nice when compared to the Macedonian police who didn't give a crap about the Albanians and actually treated them (us) like 3 world citizens. Like we didn't belong in this world. I could write a book on the whole experience. (and who knows, I might one day) lol
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Post by vinjak on Oct 15, 2008 20:38:40 GMT -5
We went to Macedonia, my family was one of the last to leave the country, kind of stupid we stayed so much but my dad didn't want to leave. Kind of stubborn. We stayed in Fushe Kosova when the NATO bombardment started, for about a week, then went to Prishtina where my father and mother have sisters and brothers, etc, so stayed there for about a month and a half and then left for Macedonia.
Ilirdardani where you and your family expelled (ordered out) or did you leave on your own ?
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 15, 2008 21:18:45 GMT -5
We went to Macedonia, my family was one of the last to leave the country, kind of stupid we stayed so much but my dad didn't want to leave. Kind of stubborn. We stayed in Fushe Kosova when the NATO bombardment started, for about a week, then went to Prishtina where my father and mother have sisters and brothers, etc, so stayed there for about a month and a half and then left for Macedonia.Ilirdardani where you and your family expelled (ordered out) or did you leave on your own ? Well in Fushe Kosova, people started leaving pretty early, things were very bad in Drenica for example, but as soon as the bombardment started, the first two days the majority of Albanians left, those who remained 97% of them were killed, people that couldn't get out, didn't have a ride, elderly people for example, there was this one family in my street (we lived in central Fushe Kosovo / Kosovo Polje, where the road divides to go to the airport, the other one to train station and other one to downtown prishtina), and on that street at the end of it, there was this doctor named Fatmir, who couldn't leave, tried leaving the day before, but was returned from the bus station beaten up, and later after the war we found out that he was murdered, together with his wife, parents, the kids (only one daughter remained, she had gotten out of the house, no one is sure why, but at that moment the guys who murdered them came and did the job, while she was away, hiding under a bush, she says). Our neighbor to the left and right were Serbian, the neighbor to the front was Albanian (kind of mixed with turkish, or so they claim) they left earlier in the year. So during the week that we stayed when the bombardment was happening, we heard shots left and right, saw a house about 4 or 5 houses away from hours, a couple of guys got in, and then a few minutes later it started burning. So as that week was ending, my father by that time figured out that if we were going to stay, we would probably get killed, he talked to the left neighbor, and he somehow arranged for a Serbian down the street to give us a ride (there was no other way to leave at that point, no buses were running, walking would get attention, etc), so my father, mother, brother and me, had about 5 minutes to get anything we could (wish we had gotten the pictures lol) and left with that Serbian guy, who took us to Bregi i Diellit (Sunny Hill, in Prishtina), where my fathers sister lived. My grandfather and grandmother had stayed since there was no more space in the car (5 seats only, 4 of us + the driver). That same day, around 8pm or so, my grandfather who was 72 was lying down in the couch putting his eye drops, my grandmother was behind the house, there was another door there, trying to shut it close or something, and a couple of guys came and shot at the house. None of the bullets touched them, for the fact that he was lying down and she was behind the house. Next day early morning my father called the neighbor, and the neighbor (Milorad, his name, very good fella), again arranged for my grandparents to be moved to Prishtina. So that was our story, but really though the majority of people that remained around Kosovo Polje were killed during the NATO bombardment, before that there was tension growing in our town but no attacks were made. House was burned while we were staying in Prishtina, we found out from the neighbor again, and at that moment my dad said that there is no going back since there would be no home to go back to, then he decided that we would have to leave the country for Macedonia. Prishtina was pretty much empty when we left. Another thing that might have saved us on the trip to Macedonia is probably the fact that my dad speaks fluent Serbian, his first 8 years of schooling were in Serbian school in Medvegja, (they're from Svirc, but going back my grandfathers side of family came from Leskovac. Kind of long post but worth reading I think. lol
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Post by albquietman on Oct 15, 2008 21:51:52 GMT -5
FYROM is in a desperate position to get recognized by the name of Macedonia, and what I think is that the recognition of Kosova was something that they had to do in order to get the same in return, not because they like Kosova and her new state. It's just politics, and macedonians haven't been so friendly with the albanians in general. So, while saying thank you to Macedonia, I think Kosova should see her own interest in Balkan, and that's to not go against Europe, and Albania should do the same. Since Europe didn't recognize Macedonia, why the albanian states should do it, and what is the interest anyway? I might be wrong, but I can't recall any help from the macedonians when th albanians of Kosova were in need, and think about it, they have border with Kosova...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 15, 2008 22:05:52 GMT -5
AlbQ,
how nice it sounds...really...
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Post by albquietman on Oct 15, 2008 22:12:09 GMT -5
Well, they are albanian states aren't they?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 22:13:42 GMT -5
I didn't know the E.U. hadn't recognized Kosovo?
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Oct 15, 2008 22:28:30 GMT -5
No s**t it was a generalization, but generalization have truth in them, however the support shown for Macedonia is clear in that 90% of people say Maqedoni. On top of that polls have shown that the majority of Albs from Albania support Macedonia on the issue. This is the only time, however, I have spoken to Albs about the issue. In fact I dont remember even bringing up the issue at home. That's correct. We call it Maqedoni end of story.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 15, 2008 22:39:33 GMT -5
Nhagdi..you are like a woman..one week you are friendly to Greeks and now you are full off antagonism... I can see and some others right through you... Which Greek pissed you off this week ? Tell me so I can kill him....
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 15, 2008 23:15:41 GMT -5
No s**t it was a generalization, but generalization have truth in them, however the support shown for Macedonia is clear in that 90% of people say Maqedoni. On top of that polls have shown that the majority of Albs from Albania support Macedonia on the issue. This is the only time, however, I have spoken to Albs about the issue. In fact I dont remember even bringing up the issue at home. That's correct. We call it Maqedoni end of story. No, no end of story just because our gov't calles it that doesn't mean its right, this is between a rock and a hard place, but I for one fully support Greece on this issue i mean get real theyre calling for rights to be recognized and waving their bootlegged flag all over southeast albania and listing them part of GREATER "MaQIdonia" who the hell do they think they are to reinvent history and to call Alexander the Great slavic, if anything he was half Illyrian now more than half the world thinks hes "Macedonian" but i can understand why u guys think this way, this is all Greece's own fault anyway if they hadnt fucked up in the past none of this wouldve happened and we wouldn't be having this discussion at all..
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Post by raynon on Oct 16, 2008 0:48:55 GMT -5
From all we know about Albania's neighbors and what they tried to do to Albanians, I think Albania should just wait it out and take no moves for or against Maced.
I think the Greeks and Macedonians know why.
Both are modern fabrications made up of migrants from the ancient thru to the ottoman empires.
Albanians should sit this one out and let the powers make this decision for them.
It's none of our business anyway. Not one Albanian's fingernail is worth the trouble of recognizing macedonia's title.
Personally, they can both go the way of Serbia, if they want their way so bad.
As for Greece's vote/support for eu/nato entry. Their vote is as independently made as their vote was in Nato in 1999.
The powers again could play musical chairs with their parties/leaders in power. That's how they manipulated the greeks before, that's how they'll do it again. Same goes for Maced.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Oct 16, 2008 1:25:08 GMT -5
Nhagdi..you are like a woman..one week you are friendly to Greeks and now you are full off antagonism... I can see and some others right through you... Which Greek pissed you off this week ? Tell me so I can kill him.... My interaction with Greeks is almost inexistent now so no one has pissed me off . I try to be as fair as I can. I give credit to Greeks where credit is due. Just becasue I support Macedonia in this quest it doesn't necessarily mean I have a beef with Greeks. I think it's simply fair and just and I won't deny a Macedonian's right to want to be called a Macedonian. Say I meet someone from FYROM and he introduces himself as a Macedonian who am I to say to him hey buddy you got it all wrong you're a Fyromian. It is absurd. I never knew there was a province in Greece called Macedonia until the FYROM name question came up. I never cared and I still don't really. We in the Balkans always try to bully and impose if we feel someone is in a weaker position. Look at Serbia's behaviour towards Montenegro and Macedonia, bullying at its best. Look at how great it turned out for the Serbs. Greece is trying to bully Macedonia because it feels it has the upper hand. I think that is juts plain wrong.
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Post by ilirdardani on Oct 16, 2008 8:58:13 GMT -5
That's correct. We call it Maqedoni end of story. No, no end of story just because our gov't calles it that doesn't mean its right, this is between a rock and a hard place, but I for one fully support Greece on this issue i mean get real theyre calling for rights to be recognized and waving their bootlegged flag all over southeast albania and listing them part of GREATER "MaQIdonia" who the hell do they think they are to reinvent history and to call Alexander the Great slavic, if anything he was half Illyrian now more than half the world thinks hes "Macedonian" but i can understand why u guys think this way, this is all Greece's own fault anyway if they hadnt f**ked up in the past none of this wouldve happened and we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.. For once we agree on one issue.
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