MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Apr 6, 2009 22:03:15 GMT -5
^ Kosovo is in limbo right now, and is teetering on the brink of abandonment by the west (but not the US). Czechs and Spaniards are already out. I'm wondering who's next that will lose credibility in the validity of the self proclaimed Republic of Kosovo. At the same time as Croatia and Albania enter NATO it looks like NATO sold the Georgians and Ukrainians to the "devil" mother Russia, as a price for Russian support in Afghanistan. NATO for all intents and purposes has stopped its east expansion, according to insider sources its because Obama feels a healthy working relationship with Russia is worth more to the US then Ukraine and Georgia as members of the Alliance. Its now dismissed as a Bush policy, which was strongly opposed by France and Germany while the new NATO members like Poland and the Baltic’s arestill strongly for it but have little clout in NATO now that Bush is out. Now inside NATO maybe we can have a proper brown water fleet to protect the coast from the pesky Italian fishers and their thieving habits!!! ALso, so much for Slovenian demands for a corridor ;D So very true dude. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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donnie
Senior Moderator ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_blue.png)
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Apr 7, 2009 17:57:35 GMT -5
1) The West doesn't equal Spain & Czech Republic. If these two have issues with Kosova's independence, it doesn't mean all of the west has, or that they're getting cold feet. Infact, they seem quite determined in pursuing their agenda and supporting EULEX.
2) Spain has its internal reasons, dealing with Basque separatism, for not recognizing Kosova's independence, and even distance itself from the region as a whole to avoid any type of affiliation in fear of some sort of indirect legitimization of ETA from their part. BUT, how did you come to the conclusion that the Czechs are abandoning Kosova? Is it that report by Serbianna? Or "KosovoCompromise"? I haven't seen this "news" confirmed by any other, less subjective source. A little early to conclude that the Czechs have abandoned ship, let alone that the whole of the west if bailing out.
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Post by srbobran on Apr 15, 2009 17:41:16 GMT -5
What's wrong with joining NATO? Its not like Russia (and if it did, I would be all for it) or anybody has an alternative? The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how brave we are, we simply can fight wars alone. We tried fighting the whole world back in the 90's and despite extreme resiliance and resistance that all Serbs should be proud of, we simply can't do it again. If we have to fight wars we need allies.
Now, lets say Serbia and Croatia have another go at it and were both in NATO, I suppose a valid question would be as to what happens if all of our immediate neighbors (ie. the only countries that we would even really have a reason to go to war with in the first place) are in NATO as well as us?
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Post by Username on Apr 15, 2009 19:52:07 GMT -5
So does this mean Kosovo is a lost case? An attack on Kosovo is an attack on nato? No. Kosovo isn't a part of NATO. Anyways, congrats to Croatia, although I don't know why Cikola's gloating, Serbia's gonna join in a matter of a few years. Serbia is not joining until they recognize Kosovo, that's why we have Albania in there now. Um, why do you say that? Do you think that Serbia recognizing Kosovo will be a precondition on its accession? I highly doubt that. I don't think Albania would be stupid enough to actually try and veto Serbia's bid on a bilateral issue... that it is not even involved in.. of course this isn't the only reason Albania would ever veto Serbia's bid; but it is one. Serbia will be welcomed in open arms by NATO... if they ever decide they wish to join, which is currently not their goal.
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Post by SKORIC on Apr 15, 2009 21:54:43 GMT -5
What's wrong with joining NATO? Its not like Russia (and if it did, I would be all for it) or anybody has an alternative? The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how brave we are, we simply can fight wars alone. We tried fighting the whole world back in the 90's and despite extreme resiliance and resistance that all Serbs should be proud of, we simply can't do it again. If we have to fight wars we need allies. Now, lets say Serbia and Croatia have another go at it and were both in NATO, I suppose a valid question would be as to what happens if all of our immediate neighbors (ie. the only countries that we would even really have a reason to go to war with in the first place) are in NATO as well as us? There would not be any war between Serbia and Croatia especially not after both become nato members. The only wars both countries would be fighting are the ones that nato decides to fight in. So joining just for the sake for having allies in future balkan wars is not a good idea what so ever. I think that the current partnership thing with nato is enough for Serbia to be in.
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Post by Username on Apr 15, 2009 22:13:18 GMT -5
What's wrong with joining NATO? Its not like Russia (and if it did, I would be all for it) or anybody has an alternative? The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter how brave we are, we simply can fight wars alone. We tried fighting the whole world back in the 90's and despite extreme resiliance and resistance that all Serbs should be proud of, we simply can't do it again. If we have to fight wars we need allies. Now, lets say Serbia and Croatia have another go at it and were both in NATO, I suppose a valid question would be as to what happens if all of our immediate neighbors (ie. the only countries that we would even really have a reason to go to war with in the first place) are in NATO as well as us? There would not be any war between Serbia and Croatia especially not after both become nato members. The only wars both countries would be fighting are the ones that nato decides to fight in. So joining just for the sake for having allies in future balkan wars is not a good idea what so ever. I think that the current partnership thing with nato is enough for Serbia to be in. There are big economic benefits to joining NATO. Joining NATO is a sign to investors that the country is stable, and the capital that they are looking to send in that country will be safe. So in a way, it plays a big role in encouraging economic growth.
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Post by aaayyy on Apr 17, 2009 17:48:41 GMT -5
Now NATO is two countries weaker ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Anthologic
Amicus
"Lord of all Reality"
Ha!
Posts: 1,237
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Post by Anthologic on Apr 17, 2009 18:15:48 GMT -5
There are big economic benefits to joining NATO. Joining NATO is a sign to investors that the country is stable, and the capital that they are looking to send in that country will be safe. So in a way, it plays a big role in encouraging economic growth. That may have been true in the past, with their 90's expansion. But now after the dot-com boom and housing collapse, not so much.
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Post by Username on Apr 18, 2009 2:14:10 GMT -5
There are big economic benefits to joining NATO. Joining NATO is a sign to investors that the country is stable, and the capital that they are looking to send in that country will be safe. So in a way, it plays a big role in encouraging economic growth. That may have been true in the past, with their 90's expansion. But now after the dot-com boom and housing collapse, not so much. Umm the housing collapse is a temporary setback in the economy. It's called a recession. Regardless of the state of the economy, NATO membership is a strong signal to investors that it is safe to invest there. Do you think companies would be keen to invest in states where there is political and social strife? Or a nation without a strong democracy? Of course not.. This will never change, and it has nothing to do with any of the reasons you just listed.
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Anthologic
Amicus
"Lord of all Reality"
Ha!
Posts: 1,237
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Post by Anthologic on Apr 19, 2009 16:50:03 GMT -5
That's why I said "but now".. I didn't say ever after. The immediate prospect of private investment is rather bleak.
don't get agro because you believe I was dismissing your whole argument
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Post by zgembo on Apr 19, 2009 23:06:27 GMT -5
Regardless of the state of the economy, NATO membership is a strong signal to investors that it is safe to invest there. There are stronger signals though, like balanced budgets, efficient taxation systems, low levels of corruption. No wise investor is going to invest in Albania now just because they are a member of NATO. Realistically, all NATO membership mandates is a certain level of military spending and renovation. The true practical benefit is being in the same "club" as rich, developed nations. The hope is to accrue benefits indirectly through such an association. As far as Serbia joining, I think it is highly unlikely (if not impossible). It's unlikely that Russia would ever join either. What is likely is that NATO will co-operate with Russia and Serbia. That seems to be where the Obama policy is heading. As far as Kosovo is concerned, that probably promises a continuation of its frozen status. As far as future wars in the Balkans are concerned, that was never gonna be allowed to happen again (NATO or no NATO).
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