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Post by malsor4life on Apr 23, 2009 4:34:15 GMT -5
And the Rozhaj area, all those fake Boshnjaks will have to go back to their roots and re-learn Alb or get kicked out LoL
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Post by malsor4life on Apr 23, 2009 5:36:13 GMT -5
Not half. Only the parts that rightfully belong to the Albanian people, like Ulqin and vicinity (Kraja etc), Malsia with Tuzi and parts of Plav and Gusi region (villages like Vuthaj & Martinaj); these were occupied by Montenegrins in 1878 and 1912 respectively, and I wouldn't mind if we reclaimed it. You're silly, listen to yourself. Vuthaj? The root of that word is albanized slavic, Vuc, and Martinaj doesn't sound albanian or islamic to me, but sounds MONTENEGRIN. Martinovici are a big Monte family. Silly rabbit. I know plenty from those areas and they have last names like Gjonbalaj, Prelvukaj, , Balidemaj, Hasangjekaj, Martinaj, Dedushaj etc. Sounds albanian to me lol. No "Montenegrins" are from Plav/Gusi, just straight-up Malsors and pseudo-boshnjaks. Sometimes i think you say dumb things just to get a rise..
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Post by radovic on Apr 23, 2009 9:06:49 GMT -5
Milo wasnt in power a while ago, instead it was Zeljko Sturanovic. Any DPS or SDP politician can easily take Milo's place and wouldn't significantly change the political climate of the country. Because any DPS politician is Milo's bitch, just like Medvedev in Russia is Putins bitch.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 23, 2009 12:45:37 GMT -5
Not half. Only the parts that rightfully belong to the Albanian people, like Ulqin and vicinity (Kraja etc), Malsia with Tuzi and parts of Plav and Gusi region (villages like Vuthaj & Martinaj); these were occupied by Montenegrins in 1878 and 1912 respectively, and I wouldn't mind if we reclaimed it. LOL joker! Montenegro's borders will not change today, tomo, or ever. I think, in the future, Albanians and Bosnians will be the judge of that... not the Orthodox mountain goats. You doomed yourself when your 'democracy' was created, paving the way for Bosnian and Albanian control. And now, look at your nation... ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 24, 2009 1:10:19 GMT -5
"You're silly, listen to yourself. Vuthaj? The root of that word is albanized slavic, Vuc, and Martinaj doesn't sound albanian or islamic to me, but sounds MONTENEGRIN. Martinovici are a big Monte family.
Yeah and if it wasnt for us it'd still be in the hands of the Turks, so dont be stupid."
Tell Donnie about the Jovan Vladmir monastery of Elbasan, whom many Albanian orthodox believers visit. Terro, many Albanians of Albania are albanianised slavs, just go through their history and you'll see.....don't let them crap to you that this was all Bulgarian influence, because it was your supposedly people the montenegrins (If your montenegrin).
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 24, 2009 7:45:13 GMT -5
He doesn't have to tell me about Shen Gjon Vladimir, I know of him. His relics were taken from Katerkolle (or St Vladimir) in Kraja by the Thopia family and brought to Elbasan (ancient Scampa) where a monastery was erected. The motives were political, since by controling the relics of a supposed saint, you could claim rights to ruling Zeta.
What a misleading term, "Albanianized Slavs"; are you suggesting there are full blooded Slavs in Albania in quantative numbers that are "deluded" into thinking they're Albanian? There aren't. At best, some of their ancestry might be Slav, but that doesn't change the fact that they're still Albanian, since all people are mixed ... infact, we as non-Slavs have far less Slav blood in our veins than you as Slavs have non-Slav blood running through yours, so don't throw stones in your little glass house New Market.
LOL. And Macedonians are really Serbs, not Bulgarians, right?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 24, 2009 19:09:44 GMT -5
^ Donnie, the mountains, rivers, valleys and cities were founded by slavs and then they with the people where albanianised, its as simple as that!.
Jovan Vladimir, was he Albanian (Shqiptar) or Montenegrin?
"And Macedonians are really Serbs, not Bulgarians, right?"
l can tell you with 100% they (vardarians) are of serbian origin, their language may have the outwards expression of Bulgarian but the internal mechanics is serbian.
Donnie, you can laugh but the historical facts don't lie.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Apr 25, 2009 1:26:08 GMT -5
Novi Pazar...historic fact too don't lie when serbian most biggest clan (karagjorgevic) were of albanian origin. Yeah also whole balcan is full of turkish tomponimes does mean they are turkish? include "Novi Pazar" name If you dont know history Albania and most part of balcan were 90 years under Bulgarian Empire like Kosova was occupied from serbs.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 25, 2009 1:56:57 GMT -5
^ yes my stupid nick is a serbianised turkish name, its probably within 1% of turkish topymns in serbia or even the only one if i'm mistaken, whereas in albania montenegrin/serbian topymns floods the country.
"historic fact too don't lie when serbian most biggest clan (karagjorgevic) were of albanian origin."
Show the montenegrins here.
"If you dont know history Albania and most part of balcan were 90 years under Bulgarian Empire like Kosova was occupied from serbs."
So Jovan Vladimir is now a Balgarin?, not a montenegrin?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 25, 2009 3:03:59 GMT -5
Novi Pazar...historic fact too don't lie when serbian most biggest clan (karagjorgevic) were of albanian origin. Could you explain that please?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 25, 2009 5:53:02 GMT -5
^ Donnie, the mountains, rivers, valleys and cities were founded by slavs and then they with the people where albanianised, its as simple as that!. Jovan Vladimir, was he Albanian (Shqiptar) or Montenegrin? "And Macedonians are really Serbs, not Bulgarians, right?" l can tell you with 100% they (vardarians) are of serbian origin, their language may have the outwards expression of Bulgarian but the internal mechanics is serbian. Donnie, you can laugh but the historical facts don't lie. LOL, the Slavs founded rivers & mountains? I didn't know they were divine ... And Slavs have also given names to toponyms, oronyms and hydronyms in Greece as well. Does that mean that Greeks too are "really Slavs"? No. It just means that Slavs invaded these lands at some point in history ... and left a mark. Then they either retreated or got assimilated; this was easy since they came in smaller numbers and were absorbed by the natives. Genetic studies show that the impact of the Slavs in Albania and Greece is very small. Finally, you need to be specific. Are you claiming ALL cities, rivers, mountains and valleys in Albania to have Slav names? What about Kruje? Or Mati? Or Shkelzen? He was a Montenegrin, but we cannot exclude the possibility of him having Albanian blood ... or as you would formulate it, being a "Slavicized Albanian".
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 25, 2009 20:16:19 GMT -5
^ first time shqiptars (Albanians) were mentioned was in the late 11th century approximately 100 years after Jovan Vladimir.
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Post by malsor4life on Apr 25, 2009 21:13:32 GMT -5
^ Ptolemy in 1 AD wrote about the Albanoi ppl located in present-day Albania. But thats just another coincedence ej ?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 26, 2009 21:53:49 GMT -5
^ malsor, the name albania is an exomyn, but you call yourself Shqiptar. Your language is grouped in the Satem branch.
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Post by malsor4life on Apr 27, 2009 5:44:21 GMT -5
Take a hike to Carpathia.
LoL
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 27, 2009 7:12:28 GMT -5
Firstly, why are you changing topic all of the sudden? Trying to dodge my questions because you know your claims are ridiculous? Come on, prove all mountains & rivers & city names are Slavic! Start with the river Mati ... As for the quotes above; you're wrong on many levels. Firstly, the mentioning you're refering to was in 1043, which isn't "one hundred years after Jovan Vladimir's death", since he died in 1016, not 943. Secondly, the term "shqiptar" wasn't used in 1043 as you try to imply; the term Albanian/Arbanitai in Byzantine sources was used both by Ptolemy and Akropolites. Thirdly, the term "shqiptar" is a later phenomenon; the Albanians previously used the self-designation "Arbër" or "Arbën" in the northern dialect, which is related to the Greek medieval and ancient term for the Albanians, "Arbanitai", firstly mentioned by Polybius in the 2nd century BC, when he mentions the town of Arbon in present day Albania, and its inhabitants as Arbanios or Arbanitai. Finally, the argument about the nature of the Albanian language (satem/centum)is being used totally out of context, further confirming your total ignorance. If you want to learn more, read on; illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=shqiperiaalbania&action=display&thread=22654 The nature of the Albanian language doesn't fit the narrow dichotomy of the satem/centum divide, since Albanian contains elements of both and a third velar which supposedly existed ín PIE thousands of years ago.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 28, 2009 22:28:15 GMT -5
About this issue, one of the most distinguished Albanian historians had to say, in 1955, in front of an audience of the Soviet Academy of Sciences in Moscow, more or less the following:
"The bourgeois science has always tried to deny the historic, ethnic and language links between Albanians and the Slavs. We won't fall into this trap. There's no reason to deny that there is Slavic blood running in our veins, and we are proud of it."
After 1960 all this Slavic blood dried out, obviously.
Ardian Vehbiu
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 28, 2009 22:31:23 GMT -5
There is an Illyrian myth, with which Albanian culture has been flirting for at least 150 years, and as a myth it can't be questioned (for it has all the answers). There is also a very tentative Illyrian science, based mainly on archaeology, and on some data transmitted by Ancient Greek and Latin Historians.
These inscriptions, being totally alien to Albanian, show that the Illyrian question is extremely complicated, and that it isn't likely to be resolved, unless fundamental epigraphic discoveries are made.
The great Illyrologist Hans Krahe himself was no supporter of the Illyrian theory about the origin of Albanians. In his late years he came to understand that most of his paleolinguistic theories were generally wrong. Krahe started by finding Illyrian traces everywhere in Europe, but then it was made clear that all he had found were Indo-European traces -- and nobody had any doubt that Indo-European tribes had been in Europe for a long many years.
Onomastics is of no great help in settling linguistic and ethnogenetic issues. Let's have a look at some important place names in Albanian territories, like Dajti, Shkodra, Durresi, Vlora, Burreli, Drini, Shkumbini, Tirana, etc. Are they Albanian? We can't say that, for there are no Albanian words that would explain them (as we explain, for example, Kruja with "krue" - fountain).
This might well be true, but seems pathetic in front of the fact that we can't explain through Albanian words the place names we currently use, let alone the Illyrian ones. So what?
Let's move up in time, and reach the Middle Ages. In the Middle Ages the Albanians were somewhere there, though their first mention is in the 11th century (or 12th, I'm not sure). Where were they living? Where are the places they have named after their common words (technically called appellatives)? The south is full -- literally full -- of Slavic place names, especially the areas of Vlora, Tepelena, Skrapar, Mallakaster, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism.
ArdianVebiu
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 28, 2009 22:32:33 GMT -5
In 1955 there was an attempt to define with the Slavs. Even literature was banned that had previously banned Slaves. Ardjan Vehbiu is pointing out the hypocrisy of Communist era propaganda, which attempted to redefine Albania by "healing" the hatred against Slavs and the rampant Slavophobia in Albania through such fake redefining of Albania.
In fact, the "Slavic blood" suddenly came alive in 1955 more than anything else. It was a Hoxhaist invention to become closer to the Russians. Even our national poet and our greatest poem was banned so that it wouldnt offend Slavs.
You and Highduke, who first introduced this quote to you halfwits, completely missed the implication of the quotation and saw it literally without any properly evaluating anything... as is usual of you morons.
Btw, what I posted by Cambridge Indo-European scholars contradicts what Ardjan wrote in your second copy and paste (from Highduke... yet again). Look into the first link, particularly over the issue of Illyrian
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 28, 2009 22:33:52 GMT -5
Dr. Kaplan Resuli:
On the territory of today's Albania, as has already been confirmed by the most distinguished world scholars, from whom I have already mentioned some, first settled the Slavs. In 548 A.D., they enter also in Durrachium. The Albanians come via Transylvania (Romania) and Bulgaria much later, IX-X century. In the meantime, understandably, the Slavs have already named all mountains, valleys, rivers, towns and villages, and built some new ones, giving them their own names.
When the Albanians arrive on the Balkan and today¹s Albania, there is nothing else they can do except to take those toponyms. A large part of Albania is flooded with Serbian and Macedonian toponyms. Just as an example, I wish to mention the towns of Pogradec, Kor?a (Korcha), (Chorovoda), Berat, Bozigrad, Leskovik, Voskopoja, Kuzova, Kelcira, Bels and others.
Already in 1995 at the University of Skopje, it became clear to me that there will not be peace on the Balkan until the Albanian question is clarified. For that reason I switched rom the law faculty to the albanological studies and here, contrary to what was being said and written not only by the Albanian, but also by our, Yugoslavian scholars, contrary to what is being taught not only in the Albanian language schools (in Albania, as well as in Macedonia), but also in the schools of ³south-slavic² languages, I discovered that not only the Albanians are not autochthonous people, but they are also not related in any way to the Pelasgians or the Illyrians. Understandably, not one of the professors in Albanology has said this to me. They continued with the tale that allegedly Albanians are autochthonous Pelasgoillyrian descendants.
I discovered that by chance, studying the Albanian language, which, all agree, is of the type SATEM. According to that global division of languages, researching the Illyrian language I discovered that it is of the type KENTUM. The most elementary logic was saying to me that one SATEM language can not be a direct descendant, not even a kind of derivative of some KENTUM language, without a change of its substrate.
Since the Albanian language does not have any changes in its substrate, that means that the Albanians can¹t be, under any circumstance, genealogical descendants of the Illyrians. Later I discovered this, as well, in the works of the world renown professors and scholars... Paul, Hirt, Vaigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Pushcariu
...and many others, who with numerous scholarly arguments, linguistic and historical, have proven that the Albanians not only do not have anything in common with the Illyrians, not only that they are not autochthonous at any place in the Balkan, but they are not even autochthonous in the territories of modern day Albania.
Vaigand for example has formulated 12 arguments. To all of those I've added another five. Unfortunately, these scientists are not being mentioned in (the study) Albanology, nor in Albania, nor are they mentioned in Yugoslavia, or in Macedonia, because the Albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead of (the truth), to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and Illyrian origin.
Via those lies, they poison the whole nation. This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations, thus, hooking them on the ³fishing line² of some invented, wide ethnic territories, to use them as cannon fodder for the interests of some criminalised leaders and the international Capital.
The primary motive that inspired me to oppose the Albanian pseudo science about their Illyrian origin was the truth, the love for the truth, my special inclination towards it, but second and equally as important motive was the fact that, watching the Albanians being breast-fed with chauvinism and racism, are being encouraged to fight their neighbouring peoples (nations), I was hoping that if the truth is explained to them, they will move away from the tales, legends and myths about their autochthony and illyrom, thus ceasing with their inexcusable and baseless hatred towards their neighbours.
Since in the publication ³YLBERI² (comes out since 1993, in Geneva) and especially through my albanological collection THE ILLYRIANS AND THE ALBANIANS I demonstrated in written form my points of view, the Albanian academic Vincent Golleti, in the printed media stated: "The stances of Kaplan Burovich about the albanological problems, especially on the problem of the origin of the Albanians, need to be greeted most warmly, while the studies which he publishes in relation with those problems should be propagated throughout the whole of the scholarly world".
After him followed the Albanian scholar Dr. Adrian Qosi who in the middle of Tirana openly opposed the hypothesis about the Illyrian origin of the Albanians. With me agreed, via the printed media, several other younger scholars of whom I would especially mention Fatos Lubonja, Prof. Adrian Vebiu and others.
I can say that today appear a group of new Albanian scholars who do not agree with the false myths and courageously accept the scientific truth. I am proud that I lead this group and that they took up from me the necessary scholarly courage. Because, believe me, that is not easy at all, as the extreme Albanian nationalists, chauvinists and racists led by Ismail Kadare, through the most severe forms of chicanery and satanising are attempting to silence us at any cost.
They mentioned Dr Adrian Qosi when he stated that the hypothesis for the Illyrian origin of the Albanians is unfounded, added: ³But it is better not to talk about that because they will declare us anti-Albanians². And they did.
SERBS, CROATS OPEN FIRST SCHOOLS IN ALBANIA:
The oldest evidenced text in an Albanian language is "Formula paleximit" (Formula for communion), translated from Latin in 8-11-1462 by the Serb Pavle Angelic, whom the Albanians have albanised with the name Pal Engjylli. The first book in Albanian is ³Meshari² (The Book of Thoughts), a manual for religious sermons, dates from 1555 and is written by the Croatian Ivan Buzuk and published in Montenegro. And, understandably, they albanise him with the name Gjon Buzuku. For your information, the first primer in Albanian, after the proclamation of the Albanian independence is a work of ³Slavs² and Vlachs. Dositej Obradovich is the first in history who opens a school in Albanian language, while it was exactly Serbia, which was the first state to recognise independent Albania.
MACEDONIANS DEVELOP CULTURE IN ALBANIA:
The Macedonians have a significant input in the development of the Albanian culture. For example, one of the oldest publishers in Albania is the Macedonian Petar Budi (1566-1622) who has published three books in Albanian, and also a Macedonian is Jovan Kukuzel, whom the Albanians have claimed as their own and have albanised with the name Jan Kukuzeli, although it is known that when he was born in Drach, XI century, here there still is not even one Albanian. Let me remind you also of Grigor Prlichev (1830-1893) who for some time is a teacher in Tirana and published the wonderful poem ³Skenderbeg². Undeniable is the fact that always at the forefront of all of their positive processes the Albanians had namely non-Albanians.
Dr. Kaplan Resuli famous Albanian dissident and historian
alb-net.com
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