Post by tyson on Nov 7, 2008 3:50:39 GMT -5
Nov 5, 2008 12:06:15 GMT -5 @fazlinho said:
Giving a language to a people doesn't mean making it the same people as you, it also doesn't mean intermarring at all. Brazilians would never tell you they are Portugueses (or how the hell you say that in English), they still are Brazilians. A Mexican ain't a Spaniard. And surely a Mexican isn't to a Spaniard what an Austrian is to a German. OR if that is what you actually had in mind, speaking strictly of a language relationship, than ok, I agree.
i know what you're trying to say, but this is different because bosnia
is part of the historical homeland of croats since they migrated to the western balkans.
Croats ruled the region of bosnia since like 650AD, and our first king, kralj tomislav trpimirovic was crowned in bosnia. In the time of king tomislav,
there was no mention in any historical documents of any other people within the croatian kingdom (which bosnia was inside) other than croats and also later serbs
who sought refuge within the croatian kingdom's borders after the bulgarians conquered the serb lands east of the drina. there was also no mention of
an area called bosnia. it was only after the croatian kingdom collapsed because of the hungarians that a state called bosnia formed.
The name was adopted for the state from the river that flowed through the land.
So as there was no word of another peoples besides croats living there at that time, it can only come to the
conclusion that the old non-slavic inhabitants were assimilated long before, so the only inhabitants that were living there at that time were croats,
so with that being said, the inhabitants of the bosnian kingdom were croats, and the language which you speak today is a testament to that.
Nov 5, 2008 12:06:15 GMT -5 @fazlinho said:
Hmm, ok, that we also have some Turkish, Hungarian, Arab blood as well I agree.
well ok, so that makes you bosnian muslims less in common with the old bosnians, and makes the bosnian catholic croats the stronger descendants
of the od bosnians, especially since they stayed with the state religion of the bosnian kingdom which was roman catholic.
Nov 5, 2008 12:06:15 GMT -5 @fazlinho said:
And after I got to agree with you, why do you contradict yourself? You first say Bosnians are a mix of many peoples, than we are Croats? Are we also Turks?? as they got to rule over us for more than Croats did.
I say that the inhabitants of the bosnian kingdom were descended from the old croats who settled the area of bosnia,
and the old peoples who were living there before, who were subsequently assimilated and absorbed into the croats nation, as
there is no records that mentioned any other people living in king tomislavs croatia (which the eastern border extended to the drina) besides
croats, until serbs came as refugees fleeing from the bulgarians.
The direct descendants today of those catholic peoples of the bosnian kingdom are the bosnian croats.
You muslims claim you are mixed with hungarian, arab & turkish blood, so you can pretend to yourselves that you are different from us, well so be it.
Some of yous even regard youselves as turks. by saying these things, you only weaken your claims on the old bosnians,
and make the croat claims the strongest (which they were before and still are), thats why you muslims burn with jealousy at how the bosnian croats still maintain
the old catholic traditions of bosnia in places like bobovac, and you have nothing to do with these traditions anymore, because
your peoples descendants decided to side with the enemies and destroyers of the bosnian kingdom, and converted
to its enemies religion.
Nov 5, 2008 12:06:15 GMT -5 @fazlinho said:
A tribe who migrated and stuff, no, there were illyrians first, slavs came, and people in the territory of Bosnia when writing about them would refer to themselves as Bosnians, not Croats nore Serbs, even though nominating them in the same context as Bosnians. It was really not an alternative to everything, it's simply how people thought of themselves. In ottoman times, given the religious context of the state, national consciousness didn't really matter much, nore for Bosnians, nore for Croats, nore for Serbs, but when people would speak about nations in Bosnia,they would speak of Bosnians, Serbs and Croats.
yes, there were illyrians before croats, but after croats, there was no illyrians, but only croats.
Croats assimil;ated and intermarried with all the old peoples till there was no trace of any other peoples left
but croats. People from the bosnian kingdom would refer to themselves as bosnian, to differentiate themselves from croats living outside bosnia,
who were both the same peoples. Bosnia made its own dynasty, but that doesnt mean that they werent croats. if you look
at austro-hungarian & ottoman documents, you would see that dalmatians & slavonians were also referred to as seprately
from croats, because of serbs living among croats in these areas aswell, due to later migrations.
The only time bosnian was put really in the ethnic sense was in the 20th century, and only until the end of the 20th century that
the identity of an ethnic bosniak was officially declared.