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Post by zgembo on Aug 15, 2008 12:13:23 GMT -5
I don't know if I should be flattered or just all the more convinced that Pickola is a dimwit
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Post by markosijekira on Aug 16, 2008 5:36:44 GMT -5
"OK maybe, but that's medieval Bosnia, that's not Bosniaks or Bosnian Muslim. Throughout Ottoman rule, most of the wars were fought against Catholics. Serbs and Bosniaks were the ones who shared life together under the Ottomans while most Croats were under the Habsburgs. Prior to Yugoslavia coming into existence, Serbs and Muslims were much closer to each other than to Croats. Croats were closer to (Krajina and Vojvodina) Serbs too than to Muslims because they lived together in the Habsburg Empire. The current 'sympathy' between Croats and Muslims is purely a product of Yugoslavia, of common interests in WW2 and the most recent war. "
And in the 19th century, both the Croatians and Serbs of the Austro Hungarian empire looked up to Ban Jelacic as the man who would unite the Slavs of the empire and form a separate entity, together two religions one nation (one of the slogans) but alas, our beloved Ban chose loyaltie to the emperor first. (Though i still regard him as a great historical figure from our history)
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Aug 17, 2008 1:01:05 GMT -5
^^ When I said the exact same thing a few months ago, the Croats and Serbs both abused me for saying he was a legend to both our peoples (Since he was from Vojvodina, and was from a mixed marriage)
Great to see another person who knows the truth about Bane Jelacic and his Yugoslav roots!
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Post by markosijekira on Aug 17, 2008 3:01:43 GMT -5
"When I said the exact same thing a few months ago, the Croats and Serbs both abused me for saying he was a legend to both our peoples (Since he was from Vojvodina, and was from a mixed marriage)
Great to see another person who knows the truth about Bane Jelacic and his Yugoslav roots! "
The problem is that people today seek to interpret our history through the present norms in the relationship of Croats and Serbs, which began to form during WWII. The supposed ancient hatred between Serbs and Croats (which western media used to bring up all the time) is a myth. Hell the ban even took the oath of office in front of a serb orthodox patriarch.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 17, 2008 10:38:21 GMT -5
^Ma, the Ban just wanted his face in history and would do anything to get it. :-)
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Aug 17, 2008 10:41:36 GMT -5
^^ Yeah we cant compare him to true heroes like Ante Pavelic and Franjo Tudjman.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 17, 2008 11:15:47 GMT -5
^^^There are no real heroes in the above line. How can FT be a hero when he was against us for much of the 20th century? And AP, well he was for us but made many mistakes.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Aug 17, 2008 14:03:16 GMT -5
The hatred between Croats and Serbs is just as much an invention as Yugoslav people and their nation is. Ban Jelacic is not a Yugoslav because there are no Yugoslav people. It's a concept that formed in the last 100 years, usually by mixed people to legitimize their existence. We are mixed peoples and we need to recognize and embraced that, i.e. not fully Slavic, or YugoSlav.
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Post by sweetnugs on Aug 17, 2008 17:05:11 GMT -5
The hatred between Croats and Serbs is just as much an invention as Yugoslav people and their nation is. Ban Jelacic is not a Yugoslav because there are no Yugoslav people. It's a concept that formed in the last 100 years, usually by mixed people to legitimize their existence. We are mixed peoples and we need to recognize and embraced that, i.e. not fully Slavic, or YugoSlav. Agreed, we SHOULD all embrace that but its rather difficult with ethnic warriors who think their particular ethnic side is holy. Nationalistic Serbs have this particular disease where they want to impose their views on other tribes and tell them how their history should be or what religion they should come back to. How can someone teach 'mixed peoples' principle to someone who's blood comes from hatred against anyone who is not in agreement with them.
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Aug 17, 2008 20:22:38 GMT -5
Another thing worth adding is that Ban Jelacic was born on the Slavonian part of the Military Frontier of the Habsburg Monarchy ... which is now known as Vojvodina.
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Post by zgembo on Aug 17, 2008 20:26:58 GMT -5
The hatred between Croats and Serbs is just as much an invention as Yugoslav people and their nation is. Ban Jelacic is not a Yugoslav because there are no Yugoslav people. It's a concept that formed in the last 100 years, usually by mixed people to legitimize their existence. We are mixed peoples and we need to recognize and embraced that, i.e. not fully Slavic, or YugoSlav. Agreed, we SHOULD all embrace that but its rather difficult with ethnic warriors who think their particular ethnic side is holy. Nationalistic Serbs have this particular disease where they want to impose their views on other tribes and tell them how their history should be or what religion they should come back to. How can someone teach 'mixed peoples' principle to someone who's blood comes from hatred against anyone who is not in agreement with them. You have got the same disease, insisting that Serbs in RS are Bosnians, that the land is historically Bosnian and that we are closer to Muslims in Bosnia than Serbs in Serbia.
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Aug 18, 2008 2:01:55 GMT -5
"The hatred between Croats and Serbs is just as much an invention as Yugoslav people and their nation is. Ban Jelacic is not a Yugoslav because there are no Yugoslav people. It's a concept that formed in the last 100 years, usually by mixed people to legitimize their existence. We are mixed peoples and we need to recognize and embraced that, i.e. not fully Slavic, or YugoSlav."
I agree, but what im trying to say is that Bane Jelacic can be considered a hero to "Yugoslavs" (Meaning all people from the former state) because he embodies unity, strength and freedom. Hes from a mixed marriage of a Croat and a Serb and its well known he was a hero to both people.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Aug 18, 2008 7:56:17 GMT -5
Seriously? I know for a fact in the war Serbs used to call him Ban Jebacic.
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Aug 18, 2008 9:44:20 GMT -5
^^ nationalists and Seljaks i guess. Even Cro nationalists dont really like him much.
My mother is from Vinkovce and she rekons everyone in the city liked him (be it Serbs or Cros). She also claims her own mother (Who was from Vojvodina) was also a fan of Jelacic' along with othe Serbs from Vojvodina.
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