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Post by bob1389 on Nov 25, 2008 21:32:16 GMT -5
Hate is a sign of envy.
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Post by theblackswans on Nov 25, 2008 21:34:14 GMT -5
It's because of the recent war in the 90's when Serbs took their revenge on Muslims & about 64,000 of them died. A lot were killed by Croats as well but most of them by Serbs. 8000 in Srebrenica. That's a pretty good reason to hate us. About 24,000 Serbs died. It's the worst part of our long and proud history as a people and in comparisson to our own suferring is actually just a drop in the ocean. It's not just the war, what about all the racist garbage and underhanded shit done by Serbia to wards Bosnia before, during and after the war? Also all the BS about Muslims being genetically inferior, Sarajevans shelling and sniping themselves, denying civilians food, medicine, water, electricity etc? the mass rapes, killing civilians, killing people who escaped to Serbia during the war? Claiming Srebrenica never happened? When atrocities were committed then claim that the Muslim and Croat civilians killed were actually Serbs? preventing the international community from feeding or bringing medicine into the concentration camps of Sarajevo, Gorazde, Srebrenica, Zepa and Bihac as well as numerous other locations. Planning the war years before fighting actually broke out (89-90). Preparing the Serbian civilian population for the atrocities to come by using Nazi racial tactics. There are so many reasons to despise the cetnik mentality alot of the Serbs on this forum, these are just the tip of the iceberg. Do you really not understand why so much of the world doesn't believe your bs? Please don't mention Russia they are a disgusting government who value human lives even less than the Serbs do.
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Post by theblackswans on Nov 25, 2008 21:34:59 GMT -5
Are you retarded? Hate is a sign of envy? Maybe for the criminally retarded ;D
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Post by theblackswans on Nov 25, 2008 21:37:53 GMT -5
It's because of the recent war in the 90's when Serbs took their revenge on Muslims & about 64,000 of them died. A lot were killed by Croats as well but most of them by Serbs. 8000 in Srebrenica. That's a pretty good reason to hate us. About 24,000 Serbs died. It's the worst part of our long and proud history as a people and in comparisson to our own suferring is actually just a drop in the ocean. Most Serbs killed were soldiers, most Bosniaks killed were civillians. Also the fact that the ABiH and territory held by the Bosnian government remained plural to some degree or another thru the entire war tells the truth, much clearer than your blurred vision of reality. Also a large portion of Serb civillians were killed in Sarajevo and Tuzla by VRS weapons, as well as normal Serbs who refused to support the genocide and facist behavior and were rewarded by being murdered by the Serbian authorities. HVO unites remained loyal to ABiH thru the entire war, the 1st and 2nd Korpus were bolstered by thousands of Serbs who were anti facist. Thousands more fought in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th,7th Korpus and 8th division. Ever heard of Jovan Divjak? I personally have a few friends who were Serbs who fought in the ABiH one who fought with Musan Topalovic (who Serbs always use to claim that he hated and killed Serbs only because they were Serbs in Sarajevo). Which proves Bosniaks were on the side of right, fighting for survival while Cetniks were committing war crimes in Europe not seen since WWII. Your cetniks are rightfully talked in the same breath as the Nazis and will be done so for the rest of history END OF STORY!!!
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Post by bob1389 on Nov 25, 2008 21:50:13 GMT -5
It should be noted that theblackswan's hate stems from being raped by Chetnik soldiers.
R.I.P blackswans anal virginity 1980-1992 "You will be SORELY missed"
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Post by theblackswans on Nov 25, 2008 21:52:51 GMT -5
It should be noted that theblackswan's hate stems from being raped by Chetnik soldiers. R.I.P blackswans anal virginity 1980-1992 "You will be SORELY missed" Your hilarious you fucking tard. Cetniks only like to rape there own kids, so I am sure you were a pleasure for your fag molesting incestual inbreeding family. Sit down bitch, your trying to play with the big boys. ;D
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Post by SKORIC on Nov 26, 2008 0:04:02 GMT -5
It's because of the recent war in the 90's when Serbs took their revenge on Muslims & about 64,000 of them died. A lot were killed by Croats as well but most of them by Serbs. 8000 in Srebrenica. That's a pretty good reason to hate us. About 24,000 Serbs died. It's the worst part of our long and proud history as a people and in comparisson to our own suferring is actually just a drop in the ocean. Most Serbs killed were soldiers, most Bosniaks killed were civillians. Also the fact that the ABiH and territory held by the Bosnian government remained plural to some degree or another thru the entire war tells the truth, much clearer than your blurred vision of reality. Also a large portion of Serb civillians were killed in Sarajevo and Tuzla by VRS weapons, as well as normal Serbs who refused to support the genocide and facist behavior and were rewarded by being murdered by the Serbian authorities. HVO unites remained loyal to ABiH thru the entire war, the 1st and 2nd Korpus were bolstered by thousands of Serbs who were anti facist. Thousands more fought in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th,7th Korpus and 8th division. Ever heard of Jovan Divjak? I personally have a few friends who were Serbs who fought in the ABiH one who fought with Musan Topalovic (who Serbs always use to claim that he hated and killed Serbs only because they were Serbs in Sarajevo). Which proves Bosniaks were on the side of right, fighting for survival while Cetniks were committing war crimes in Europe not seen since WWII. Your cetniks are rightfully talked in the same breath as the Nazis and will be done so for the rest of history END OF STORY!!! Can you stop taling shit please? Casualty figures according to the Demographic Unit at the ICTY Total102,622Bosniaks & Croats c. 72,000 Serbs c. 30,700 Total civilians55,261Bosniaks & Croats c. 38,000 Serbs c. 16,700 Total soldiers47,360 Bosniaks c. 28,000 Serbs c. 14,000 Croats c. 6,000
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 26, 2008 2:33:46 GMT -5
Most Serbs killed were soldiers, most Bosniaks killed were civillians. Also the fact that the ABiH and territory held by the Bosnian government remained plural to some degree or another thru the entire war tells the truth, much clearer than your blurred vision of reality. Also a large portion of Serb civillians were killed in Sarajevo and Tuzla by VRS weapons, as well as normal Serbs who refused to support the genocide and facist behavior and were rewarded by being murdered by the Serbian authorities. HVO unites remained loyal to ABiH thru the entire war, the 1st and 2nd Korpus were bolstered by thousands of Serbs who were anti facist. Thousands more fought in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th,7th Korpus and 8th division. Ever heard of Jovan Divjak? I personally have a few friends who were Serbs who fought in the ABiH one who fought with Musan Topalovic (who Serbs always use to claim that he hated and killed Serbs only because they were Serbs in Sarajevo). Which proves Bosniaks were on the side of right, fighting for survival while Cetniks were committing war crimes in Europe not seen since WWII. Your cetniks are rightfully talked in the same breath as the Nazis and will be done so for the rest of history END OF STORY!!! Can you stop taling s**t please? Casualty figures according to the Demographic Unit at the ICTY Total102,622Bosniaks & Croats c. 72,000 Serbs c. 30,700 Total civilians55,261Bosniaks & Croats c. 38,000 Serbs c. 16,700 Total soldiers47,360 Bosniaks c. 28,000 Serbs c. 14,000 Croats c. 6,000 Actually this is the most recent one, and the one of the guy in the article Bob posted. Casualty figures according to RDC (as reported in March 2006) Total 96,175 Bosniaks 63,994 66.5% Serbs 24,206 25.2% Croats 7,338 7.6% other 637 0.7% Total civilians 38,645 Bosniaks 32,723 84.7% Serbs 3,555 9.2% Croats 1,899 4.9% others 466 1.2% Total soldiers 57,529 Bosniaks 31,270 54.4% Serbs 20,649 35.9% Croats 5,439 9.5% others 171 0.3% unconfirmed 4,000
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Post by zgembo on Nov 26, 2008 3:07:42 GMT -5
^ How can that one have 6,000 less deaths? Did the Demographic Unit at ICTY invent dead people? The ICTY costs $500 million a year and it is an international court of law.
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 26, 2008 3:34:54 GMT -5
^ How can that one have 6,000 less deaths? Did the Demographic Unit at ICTY invent dead people? The ICTY costs $500 million a year and it is an international court of law. Ah so now it's one hell of a respected institution isn't it ? Anyways, it surely is. The thing is that in Mirsad Tokaca's research the number of people who died as a direct consequence of war (for an example, the famous Serb babies) wasn't included. And the one about the ICTY was more of an estimate, not a full-scale research. If you look, Bosniak and Croats casualties are counted together. The real picture is given by the newest research, that so far has been the most extensive research ever made, founded by the IC.
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Post by zgembo on Nov 26, 2008 3:49:22 GMT -5
There are 13,000 less Serbian civilian deaths. The ICTY estimate could not have overshot it by that much. And why is a Muslim doing the research? That immediately introduces the possibility of bias.
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 26, 2008 6:22:08 GMT -5
There are 13,000 less Serbian civilian deaths. The ICTY estimate could not have overshot it by that much. And why is a Muslim doing the research? That immediately introduces the possibility of bias. If you go into the ICTY research, they don't have names in their list, they don't have nothing. It was an estimated, probably it was that high because the number of Vlachs who left Bosnia is really high, and they based on that. But just think of the first estimate, of more than 200000 deaths. Medias used it, NATO officially estimated it as such, and others, and not because of Vlach paranoid obsession with being hated by the west, but because it was really estimated to be such a high number. If you go into the newest RDC list, you'll see names. And Mirsad gets s**t by Bosniaks because of his research, so he is not serving anyone's agenda. Even Bob enjoyed the fact it's Bosniaks who cuss him the most now. His team was multiethnic it's not like he collected all the data by himself. AND quite frankly, I didn't even think you guys really thought a high number of Vlach civilians died - I'm not kidding, I'm just using logic, Vlach controlled cities were never under siege, and only the area of Bosanski Petrovac is the one that got "occupied" by ARBiH/HV that had a Vlach population during the war, no other Vlach dominated city ever got occupied during the war. What would have happened if ARBiH entered in Banja Luka, I don't know, the thing is we never had the "chance" to occupy or put under siege any major Vlach town.
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Post by zgembo on Nov 26, 2008 6:59:16 GMT -5
A Muslim is in charge and the research centre is probably based in Sarajevo, so it is biased. SBiH also had a multi-ethnic leadership committee, but what does that matter? Bob posted an article gloating how radical Muslims don't like this guy, but what does that matter? The figures are bullshit, I would only trust an objective group of foreigners doing this research (and them being a truly global team, not something composed of just Western European countries or just Russians, because that would be biased too).
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Post by sweetnugs on Nov 26, 2008 10:37:29 GMT -5
Ugh.. whatever to all the arguments.
I don't hate Serbs. I think its absurd to hate a whole nation based on what some of them have done. Even before the war, my family had friends that were Serbs and some of them we truly viewed as family. The war changed a couple of things, one of them being that two of those Serbs we viewed as family were caught on Alipasino Polje as snipers shooting at the same people that they shared drinks with weeks before. Regardless, I hate THOSE individuals that wanted to harm me and tried to kill me more than couple of times. I hate the ones that murdered some of my family and raped my cousins in Eastern Bosnia.
With that said, there are plenty of Serbs that fled BIH but they didn't flee without trying to warn my family. So I personally have a conflicting issue when it comes to Serbs so I can't judge everyone collectively, I can only judge and hate the ones that did dirty deeds.
Some of you guys really treat this war as black/white and forget everything else that went behind the stage.
I blame extreme nationalism on the Serb's part for having 'greater serbia' even surface. If they watered that shit down and didn't try to burn things in Belgrade whenever they disagreed with their government, maybe Serbia's neighbors wouldn't feel the need to be cautious and untrustworthy.
There is nothing more annoying than to meet a Serb who can't shut up talking about anything but war, nationalism and their heroes.
Thankfully all the Serbs I hang out here in Boston and back in Sarajevo are agnostics/atheists who could give two shits less about Serbia, war or anything related to that matter.
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 26, 2008 11:31:20 GMT -5
A Muslim is in charge and the research centre is probably based in Sarajevo, so it is biased. SBiH also had a multi-ethnic leadership committee, but what does that matter? Bob posted an article gloating how radical Muslims don't like this guy, but what does that matter? The figures are bulls**t, I would only trust an objective group of foreigners doing this research (and them being a truly global team, not something composed of just Western European countries or just Russians, because that would be biased too). Deny them as much as you want, but these are the official figures about the war in Bosnia.
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Post by theblackswans on Nov 26, 2008 12:30:12 GMT -5
It's because of the recent war in the 90's when Serbs took their revenge on Muslims & about 64,000 of them died. A lot were killed by Croats as well but most of them by Serbs. 8000 in Srebrenica. That's a pretty good reason to hate us. About 24,000 Serbs died. It's the worst part of our long and proud history as a people and in comparisson to our own suferring is actually just a drop in the ocean. It's not just the war, what about all the racist garbage and underhanded s**t done by Serbia to wards Bosnia before, during and after the war? Also all the BS about Muslims being genetically inferior, Sarajevans shelling and sniping themselves, denying civilians food, medicine, water, electricity etc? the mass rapes, killing civilians, killing people who escaped to Serbia during the war? Claiming Srebrenica never happened? When atrocities were committed then claim that the Muslim and Croat civilians killed were actually Serbs? preventing the international community from feeding or bringing medicine into the concentration camps of Sarajevo, Gorazde, Srebrenica, Zepa and Bihac as well as numerous other locations. Planning the war years before fighting actually broke out (89-90). Preparing the Serbian civilian population for the atrocities to come by using Nazi racial tactics. There are so many reasons to despise the cetnik mentality alot of the Serbs on this forum, these are just the tip of the iceberg. Do you really not understand why so much of the world doesn't believe your bs? Please don't mention Russia they are a disgusting government who value human lives even less than the Serbs do. No response from the cetniks? Thats because your the biggest pussies on this planet.
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Post by manijak on Nov 26, 2008 12:59:15 GMT -5
Personally, for me, war is war. Cetniks are scum and the biggest mistake we made was not to be as ruthless and disturbing as they were. If I am leader, I guarantee you that would change. Thank You.
But the situation was so where we were in the role of preserving a state and their role was to not make the possible with the help of Beograd.
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Post by bog on Nov 26, 2008 13:33:55 GMT -5
being "ruthless" something that was the case of the Bosnian Serb leadership is the dumbest thing one can do in a Balkan type war, it only increases the defiance of the enemy population and especially soldiers... it gives them reason to fight on against an enemy who outnumbers and outguns them, seen as they know that if they loose a town, their town.. they will end up in mass graves and their women will get mass raped...
a lot, if not most of the motivation of the ARBiH was staying the fuck alive against unimaginable odds....
the RS leadership did the same mistake as the NDH government, well all the sides did, some of the sides just never had the chance to get onto territory where the others were the majority population before the war..
in the second world war, the core of partisans, was from dalmatian Croats, and Montenegro serbs... but after not that many months, a large number of Bosnian Serbs made up partisans? why you ask? I will tell you why, their only options was to fight with the partisans to stay alive, seen as the Ustasas would kill them no matter what....
If the RS leaderships had not been so "ruthless" Bosnia today would be a part of Serbia, the others would not have been driven out, but would have had the same social statues as we had in the SHS, second class...
being ruthless is the dumbest thing one can do...
there was some battle in central Bosnia where a HVO unit outnumbered and outgunned by ARBiH held out for God knows how long, .. forgot the name of the place....
San Tzu says "don't trap a man, unless you want to see how hard he can fight"
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Post by sweetnugs on Nov 26, 2008 14:04:38 GMT -5
Hi Bog, you're our new hippie. We haven't had one of your kind since this hippie from Czech left the forum cos Bob teased her too much.
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Post by theblackswans on Nov 26, 2008 14:12:02 GMT -5
being "ruthless" something that was the case of the Bosnian Serb leadership is the dumbest thing one can do in a Balkan type war, it only increases the defiance of the enemy population and especially soldiers... it gives them reason to fight on against an enemy who outnumbers and outguns them, seen as they know that if they loose a town, their town.. they will end up in mass graves and their women will get mass raped... a lot, if not most of the motivation of the ARBiH was staying the f**k alive against unimaginable odds.... the RS leadership did the same mistake as the NDH government, well all the sides did, some of the sides just never had the chance to get onto territory where the others were the majority population before the war.. in the second world war, the core of partisans, was from dalmatian Croats, and Montenegro serbs... but after not that many months, a large number of Bosnian Serbs made up partisans? why you ask? I will tell you why, their only options was to fight with the partisans to stay alive, seen as the Ustasas would kill them no matter what.... If the RS leaderships had not been so "ruthless" Bosnia today would be a part of Serbia, the others would not have been driven out, but would have had the same social statues as we had in the SHS, second class... being ruthless is the dumbest thing one can do... there was some battle in central Bosnia where a HVO unit outnumbered and outgunned by ARBiH held out for God knows how long, .. forgot the name of the place.... San Tzu says "don't trap a man, unless you want to see how hard he can fight" Good points, I would also say that there is no doubt about the intentions of the VRS. They inherited the JNA weapons as well as most of the TO ones as well. Logistically as well as manpower came directly from Belgrade including the officer corps. They had the largest, most professional (in size, logistics, structure, professional officers etc) of any of the warring factions. If anyone should have acted in a responsible way it should have been them. Yet they inherited the large apparatus and immediately set out killing civilians, attacking cities and infrastructure unrelated to the war etc. It is striking the level of brutality they unleashed on a basically unarmed civilians in 1992.
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