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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 27, 2008 22:24:07 GMT -5
I know that many of you have lost hope that we Serbs will never find freedom and unity but worry not my brothers... for who but the Serbs still fight when there is no hope left? Did Prince Lazar give up? Did Karadjordje give up? Did King Petar give up? Did General Mihailovic give up? No my brothers... they didn’t give up nor did they ever lose hope and in the end their sacrifices were worthwhile. Yes, we Serbs have suffered greatly and unjustly but that suffering has only made us stronger and more resilient. If you will not look to our collective past for inspiration then simply look into your hearts then look at the flag of Serbdom and ask yourselves whether you feel surrender is the right path to take. Vojislav Kostunica, are you serious about this? I have been planning for a while but only recently have I rationalized my plans thanks to everyone on this forum. I only have two problems which is manpower and money. But if I know that there are other Serbs are dedicated to this plan as I then I will dedicate the rest of my life to this. If yes, then I have to point out that at this moment thinking about these kinds of projects is pretty much waste of time. If we take this "Srpska federacija" as a final goal, our way to achieving it would be pretty hard and would take lots of sacrificing. Don't forget what our holy vladika Nikolaj said: "Nije bitna velika Srbija, nego visoka Srbija!". I believe once we achieve "Visoka Srbija", creating a "Velika Srbija" will not be a problem. God helps those who help themselves. We cannot wait for Gods help while the heathens are killing off his faithful followers. FYROM should be included, or at least partioned with the Bulgars. Partition will only cause internal problems and the Bulgarians haven’t done anything for us to even consider partitioning anything with them. Regardless, in the end it will depend on whether the citizens of FYROM want to be apart of the SF or not. A Greater Serbia died with Yugoslavia being created in 1918. You can blame Karadjordjevic for that. Getting anything more than Republika Srpska or parts of Bosnia pretty much died with the events of the 90s. This is little more than wishful thinking pre-1991. Before the Great Wall of China or the Pyramids of Giza were built, the foundation was set and construction began with a single stone. The cost might be great but the end will be worthwhile. And yes, Greater Serbia is dead and it shall remained buried for I have no intention of reviving the idea.
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Post by SKORIC on Sept 27, 2008 23:47:42 GMT -5
Yes these people are heroes but in the end all but King Petar were betrayed/killed. Just fighting will not solve Serbia's problems. I remember a while ago Marko said Tadic giving Karadzic to the Hague is like Obrenovic giving Karadjordje to the Turks which in the long term worked for us and we became independent (Since in the short term we couldnt overall defeat a more powerful Ottomon empire.) Same as now not being able to defeat a more powerful west. Your plans are un-realistic, more war wont solve anything.
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 28, 2008 0:18:24 GMT -5
Yes these people are heroes but in the end all but King Petar were betrayed/killed. Just fighting will not solve Serbia's problems. I remember a while ago Marko said Tadic giving Karadzic to the Hague is like Obrenovic giving Karadjordje to the Turks which in the long term worked for us and we became independent (Since in the short term we couldnt overall defeat a more powerful Ottomon empire.) Same as now not being able to defeat a more powerful west. Your plans are un-realistic, more war wont solve anything. War is a last resort and should be thought of as such. We have legality and morality on our side and can use that. But in the end the self identified "defenders of democracy" cannot deny what the people wish. Without the people's support the SF will never become a reality... that's why we must rely on democratic and legal actions first and foremost.
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Post by malsor4life on Sept 28, 2008 0:59:46 GMT -5
So, in other words......your goal in life is to become the next Milosevic. LoL
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Post by SKORIC on Sept 28, 2008 1:00:37 GMT -5
Legality and morality mean nothing in the real world of politics. Remember what Bush said to Tadic after he asked why he broke international law by recognising Kosovo.. "The reality of politics".
Plus what will of the people are you speaking of? You write up a plan and all of a sudden its the will of the people? I dont get it?
What will you personally do to make this happen?
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Sept 28, 2008 1:08:34 GMT -5
Its a deep insult to Lazar, Karadjordje and Kralj Petar to be compared to Draza Mihajlovic. Draza Mihajlovic was a nothing in Serbian history........his men ddnt do anything, and the majority switched alliances to the Partizans during World War Two. Milovan Djilias could be seen as a greater Serb heroe in World War Two then Draza.
Not to say Draza wasnt a good man, or that the majority of Cetniks were good men too............. but he was NOTHING special when you compare him to other heroes of Serbian History.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 28, 2008 1:29:10 GMT -5
How would this federation be created? Concerning Serbs: They would vote on if they want a Serb Federation and then on which plan they want. Concerning non Serbs: Concessions if possible, force if not.Concerning concessions: RS is complete autonomy within "Bosnia and Herzegovina" and Brcko is given back to RS. RSK is reinstituted (i.e. Serbs were allowed back into Krajina and all their land was returned) and is given complete autonomy. Kosovo is given back to Serbia and all squatters (i.e. those who don't hold a Serbian passport) were kicked out. Concerning legality of force: Serbia already has a legal casus belli (cause for war) on every nation which has recognised the regime in Pristina (specifically Croatia) and Republika Srpska has a legal right to break away from (or at least go to war with) "Bosnia and Herzegovina" because several laws were illegally pressed onto Republika Srpska (and its territorial integrity has been undermined) by signers of the Dayton Agreement. Montenegrins would vote if they wish to join the Serb Federation. So basicly, we now have proof, that you are the type of person that advocates killing innocent people and eradicating or moving whole nations of people as long as it suits your ultimate goal. I don't see how you can ever blab about what's right and wrong on here again. Word of advice, stop dreaming a childish dream of being some movie hero. You're nobody. And this idea would never work as long as there is a non-serb soul left on the Balkan. Or the world for that matter.
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 28, 2008 1:40:36 GMT -5
Legality and morality mean nothing in the real world of politics. Remember what Bush said to Tadic after he asked why he broke international law by recognising Kosovo.. "The reality of politics". Legality and morality might not mean anything to those who masquerade themselves as the next crusaders and/or legionnaires but it does mean something to the vast majority of the world. Plus what will of the people are you speaking of? You write up a plan and all of a sudden its the will of the people? I dont get it? Deucaon: SF.If democracy isn’t the will of the people then what is? What will you personally do to make this happen? 1) Save up enough money then go to Balkans. 2) Start an organization within the Serb diaspora. One or the other. Perhaps 2 then 1 depending on the will of Serbs within the diaspora (so far they are up for anything as long as someone else does it.) Its a deep insult to Lazar, Karadjordje and Kralj Petar to be compared to Draza Mihajlovic. Draza Mihajlovic was a nothing in Serbian history........his men ddnt do anything, and the majority switched alliances to the Partizans during World War Two. Milovan Djilias could be seen as a greater Serb heroe in World War Two then Draza. Not to say Draza wasnt a good man, or that the majority of Cetniks were good men too............. but he was NOTHING special when you compare him to other heroes of Serbian History. He stood up against the Axis war machine with 40 soldiers and managed to successfully foster a resistance of several hundred thousand soldiers while he saved hundreds of Allied airmen and destroyed hundreds of Axis armoured vehicles. So basicly, we now have proof, that you are the type of person that advocates killing innocent people and eradicating or moving whole nations of people as long as it suits your ultimate goal. I don't see how you can ever blab about what's right and wrong on here again. Word of advice, stop dreaming a childish dream of being some movie hero. You're nobody. And this idea would never work as long as there is a non-serb soul left on the Balkan. Or the world for that matter. I know that armed resistance might include crimes against civilians but that needn’t be the case. Militarily, I cant image a scenario where killing civilians is good because all it does is create more resistance. Economically, a civilian dead or (heavily) wounded cannot contribute after the war is over. Personally, civilian deaths should be avoided because a life wasted is a world destroyed.
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Post by zgembo on Sept 28, 2008 2:01:32 GMT -5
Before the Great Wall of China or the Pyramids of Giza were built, the foundation was set and construction began with a single stone. The cost might be great but the end will be worthwhile. As much as you think you sound smart, philosophizing and analyzing about things that are not pragmatic or feasible makes you seem pretty limited.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 28, 2008 2:23:48 GMT -5
Like every time in history, new countries, borders, etc... will emerge only after fatal events. Only a great Serb (military or otherwise... not so likely the latter) victory (read money and power) will boost solidarity and unity amongst Serb populations first, and the rest of the south slavs after a while will jump on the new wagon too, as usual.
But usually victories come after battles and battles after wars.
So till the next big-scale war happens, this thread is just speculations and wishing.
Is like dreaming of cooking the next super ultra pie, without having secured the milk first.
However, it is my personal take, that still Serbs stand the best chance among balkan populations, since they are the most qualified and developed as a nation.
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Post by SKORIC on Sept 28, 2008 3:11:04 GMT -5
What will you do over there?
Im sure some 15 year old Serbs will support you (but wont do anything to help). Everyone else will shrug you off. Btw organizations on the internet dont count if thats what you're thinking.
Anyways i suggest instead of making all these plans and embarrassing Serbs, you should start making new plans on how to lose your virginity before your year 10 formal.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 28, 2008 3:51:40 GMT -5
Pyrros Im curious what exactly makes the serbs the "most developed"?
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 28, 2008 5:26:29 GMT -5
Pyrros Im curious what exactly makes the serbs the "most developed"? they usually seem to understand staff that e.g. you or the majority of albs here cannot. however, dont worry, in the broad sense, the "serbs" term will describe or include bosnians as well.
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 28, 2008 10:28:45 GMT -5
As much as you think you sound smart, philosophizing and analyzing about things that are not pragmatic or feasible makes you seem pretty limited. Fine... you can believe nothing is possible. What will you do over there? Anyways i suggest instead of making all these plans and embarrassing Serbs, you should start making new plans on how to lose your virginity before your year 10 formal. Do you think its smart revealing everything I have planned to someone who thinks of me as a pubescent virgin who will only embarrass the Serb people? If you don’t think I can do it then fine but don’t ridicule me. Im sure some 15 year old Serbs will support you (but wont do anything to help). Everyone else will shrug you off. Btw organizations on the internet dont count if thats what you're thinking. I know that there are few among the diaspora who are actual patriots (and most of them died volunteering in the wars anyway) which is why plan 1 is priority. Or to put it simply: If you want something done right then do it yourself. Like every time in history, new countries, borders, etc... will emerge only after fatal events. Only a great Serb (military or otherwise... not so likely the latter) victory (read money and power) will boost solidarity and unity amongst Serb populations first, and the rest of the south slavs after a while will jump on the new wagon too, as usual. But usually victories come after battles and battles after wars. So till the next big-scale war happens, this thread is just speculations and wishing. Is like dreaming of cooking the next super ultra pie, without having secured the milk first. However, it is my personal take, that still Serbs stand the best chance among balkan populations, since they are the most qualified and developed as a nation. Touché, Pyrros. Though I made this thread to see if there were other Serbs out there who had the same beliefs. Obviously not.
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Post by srbobran on Sept 28, 2008 11:44:39 GMT -5
Yeah and what good did standing up to the Axis war machine do for us when in the end, the Allies fvcked us over and gave us communism? Also, he technically fought for Yugoslavia and not Serbia. Regent Pavle was the smartest man alive at the time.
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 28, 2008 12:28:38 GMT -5
Yeah and what good did standing up to the Axis war machine do for us when in the end, the Allies fvcked us over and gave us communism? Also, he technically fought for Yugoslavia and not Serbia. Regent Pavle was the smartest man alive at the time. I suppose you also believe that Lazar and Petrovic should have submitted to the Turks since their struggles ended in catastrophe as well.
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Sept 28, 2008 13:28:02 GMT -5
^^ Stop puttin Draza on a pedostile and glorifying him more then others. He was a good man who led a group of good men for a noble cause. However he wasnt a skilled leader, nor a skilled fighter, nor a hero. He was just the average everyday man, and he shouldnt be respected more then any other Serb who rose up and faught against the Nazis.
The other men you mentioned are all Serbian heroes who are rememberd by the majority of Serbs as such. Draza wasnt even respected by the majority of Serbs during his own life, let alone now.
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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Sept 28, 2008 13:30:06 GMT -5
PS.
Its like someone saying Zoran Djindjic or Boris Tadic, or Vojislav Kustina are Serbian heroes. Ma daj....
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Post by Novus Dis on Sept 28, 2008 14:08:55 GMT -5
^^ Stop puttin Draza on a pedostile and glorifying him more then others. He was a good man who led a group of good men for a noble cause. However he wasnt a skilled leader, nor a skilled fighter, nor a hero. He was just the average everyday man, and he shouldnt be respected more then any other Serb who rose up and faught against the Nazis. The other men you mentioned are all Serbian heroes who are rememberd by the majority of Serbs as such. Draza wasnt even respected by the majority of Serbs during his own life, let alone now. There really is no difference between Petrovic and Draza except one fought against Turks and called himself King while the other fought against Nazis/Commies and never went into exile.
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Post by SKORIC on Sept 29, 2008 1:39:23 GMT -5
Dude what you on about, Draza fought in 4 wars, we wasnt just some random guy who woke up one day and decided "hey.. i wanna fight the nazi's" lol
But hey you're probably right that he shouldnt be compared to Karadjordje but its an insult to compare him to Djindjic, Tadic or Kostunica.
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