There is no doubt that the Byzantines where Greeks. Donnie do not get confused with the names East Roman (Greek Christian culture) apposed to Hellenic (Greek Pagan). East Roman and Greek was one and the same it was a sense of national identity and a conscience. They spoke Greek, wrote in Greek, had Greek names, practised Greek Orthodoxy and even read the classics such as the Iliad which in turn helped preserve them. There where also many Christian Icons with Greek writting and lettering. Not forgeting the Christian scriptures where sung in Greek. Anna Komnenos mentions many classic Greek authors in the Alexiad. Also why would the Byzantine intellectuals of the later period consider themselves Greeks? What Aadmin has stated about the Byzantines being Greek is true... In conclusion Ancient Greek > Byzantine Greek > Modern Greek are one and the same. About the Arvanites there is a small village of Arvanites (population of <500 or so (?)) in the Peloponnese and they consider themselves distinct from Albanians.....
Last Edit: Jan 3, 2008 21:15:55 GMT -5 by greek1234
Even though we called ourselves Romio..... we were still Greek.... just citizens of the New Roman Empire...besides if we were really Romans.... the west would have come to the rescue in 1453.... so don't kid yourself... cause I will take back all the good words I said about you.... ;D
Post by kartadolofonos on Jan 3, 2008 21:56:07 GMT -5
Do you know what the word "Arvanites" means? Albanian, and that's what they are. But they are, however, almost fully assimilated and extinct.
[Arbanites] Arvani+tis+ notias+Albanias are the descendants of immigrants from the Northern Epirus which were installed in regions central and southern Greece at the duration of between the 13th century and the 15th century. [Agisilaos] [Tselalis]. [Plapoytas]. Editor: [Giannikos] V. - [Kaldis] V., 1962 (pp. 31 and 45). In 1350 - 1430 on [Manoyil] [Katakoyzinoy] and Theodoros ' [Palaiologoy]invited the Arvanites to came in Peloponnese to the despots of [Mystra] Their origin was from [Illyrian Greeks] of Epirus. Arvanites were Mountain Farmers and Hunters.unsophisticated and strong with big resistance, Rome and boldness, tall, masculine, and beautiful… Greek Orthodox Epirotes like the Tosk Albanized Greek Illyrians of South Albania Arvanites play an important role in the Greek War of Independence and also central role in the political process Arvanitika or Arvanitic in the Greek-based Arvanitic alphabet) is the variety of language identify nationally and ethnically as Greeks and not Albanians.
There is no doubt that the Byzantines where Greeks. Donnie do not get confused with the names East Roman (Greek Christian culture) apposed to Hellenic (Greek Pagan). East Roman and Greek was one and the same it was a sense of national identity and a conscience.
The Byzantines were a mixture of a myriad of peoples. This is reflected in its emperors, many of whom were non Greek, such as Herakleios and John Tzismiskes (Armenian) or Justin & Justinian (Romanized Illyrians). Eventually, the Greek language did succeed Latin as the administrative language of the Eastern Roman Empire. But the Byzantines did not identify with ancient Hellas. Nor did they have a "Greek national consciousness". Their loyalty lied in Christianity. Like in the rest of the contemporary world, religion, not your ethnicity, was important.
About the Arvanites there is a small village of Arvanites (population of <500 or so (?)) in the Peloponnese and they consider themselves distinct from Albanians
Of course. I was not talking of the modern Arvanites. They have lost the language of their ancestors and consider themselves very much as Greeks. I was speaking of their ancestors who came during the Middle Age. They were not Greek.
Even though we called ourselves Romio..... we were still Greek.... just citizens of the New Roman Empire...besides if we were really Romans.... the west would have come to the rescue in 1453.... so don't kid yourself... cause I will take back all the good words I said about you....
The Byzantine legacy lives on the strongest among you Greeks, no doubt. And Greek was the official language in the Byzantine empire. But that empire was anything but homogenous, and there was no sense of Greek national consciousness or patriotism prevalent among that empire's subjects, most of whom were non Greeks. Orthodoxy was of primary importance. The Byzantines considered themselves as the heirs of the Roman empire, hence their selfdesignation 'Romioi' (Romans) as opposed to 'Ellhnes' (Greeks).
The Byzantine Empire was a Hellenic Empire the Armenians and other people where just mere subjects to the Greeks at Constantinople. On the other hand it is true that Constantinople was a multi cultural city from its very foundations after all it was built over an ancient Greek city which was built in Thracian territory. It is also true that the royalty was of mixed ancestry like many monarchies of the period. But this is what you do not understand the Greek conscience like all Medieval Christian societies during that period was of a Christian one since they had moved away from there Pagan and Philosophical roots. Anna Komnenos states it wasn't till the reign of her father Emperor Alexius that Philosophical thought was properly brought back into the picture. Like I have stated before the Byzantine Empire was more Greek then anything else. If a person who practices Greek culture or who speaks Greek isn't Greek then what is he? If you where not Greek Orthodox or not baptized by our Church, didn't speak Greek or practiced Greek culture you where foreign and untrustworthy. Just read the Alexiad Anna Conmenna considered anyone who was not East Roman/ Greek was considered a Barbarian. Eg... During the two Norman invasions, the Pechenegs, the Turks and the passing Frankish Crusaders.
Last Edit: Jan 4, 2008 2:52:50 GMT -5 by greek1234
Post by kartadolofonos on Jan 4, 2008 15:56:06 GMT -5
byzantines are called byzantines or greeks. as already seen, the westerners called them byzantine greeks. the byzantine rulers were all greek..greek in this context means byzantine. byzantium was the chief heir to the tradition of greece. the byzantine emperor in constantinople was the head of the greek orthodox church as well as the secular head of the byzantine state. the russians,bulgarians,serbs,romanians, therefore, knew about the orthodox religion from the byzantines or Greeks.
Post by kartadolofonos on Jan 4, 2008 17:17:14 GMT -5
in your fantasies
Ancient Greek Contributions to Western Civilization is gigantic Once you get to the study of Rome, you will find that the Romans didn't have an original thought in their heads! Everything Roman was really Greek, Also, the The Apostle Paul had a classical Greek education the new Testament was written in Greek.
It seems quite interesting that you non-Greeks never seem to ask yourselves; Why and How did Greek become the official language of the Byzantine Empire/Eastern Roman Empire??
Simple! It was due to the vast majority of it's subjects being Greek! There is no other logical explanation. Latin lost out in the Eastern Empire because only the Royals knew how to speak it and the occupants of the area around Rome itself. If the Armenians were the largest group of the Eastern Empire around Byzantium then Armenian would have become the official language, Bulgarian then Bulgarian and so on. But since the Greeks were there for more than 2000 years at that point and were the majority of the population then as logic and common sense would dictate Greek became the official language.
Greeks were always there and still are, there were also non-Greek Christians who were part of the Empire, but they were not the majority. The Armenians retained their own language, just as the Syrians did, just as the Bulgarians did, just as the Serbians did, just as the Vlachs did and so on. So once again Why would Greek become the official language?
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