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Post by Arxileas on Oct 30, 2008 21:42:58 GMT -5
Actually, Chams are waiting for EU entrance to bring back the issue. What ever happens I am sure it'll be all cleared up Welcome to openness and true democracy the E.U way. Sincerely wishing you the best.
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 31, 2008 7:24:00 GMT -5
A etsi ok den to iksera.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 31, 2008 7:59:31 GMT -5
ellino-polo-amerikanos eimai monima stin ellada Mipos eisai o Papandreou?? ;D
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 31, 2008 8:13:57 GMT -5
^^^ LOL ! Kaaalloooooo... Pare + na exeis....
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 31, 2008 9:26:59 GMT -5
Haha xD
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Post by captainalbania on Oct 31, 2008 9:29:15 GMT -5
cam territorial issue is a dead one as far as i'm concerned, but perhaps the Greek government could compensate them for their lost property if they could produce deeds.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 31, 2008 13:03:43 GMT -5
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 31, 2008 13:11:26 GMT -5
Toscalicu "Actually, Chams are waiting for EU entrance to bring back the issue. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That will be good. Please bring up this issue... The last news are: Germans paid for all the human victims of their faschist troops against civilians. Now... most propably Greece will not have to pay since Chams left by their own due to the fear of revenge. But lets say... Greece looses the game and it pays for some houses and land. Can you imagine what will happen when the families of the victims of Bali-Competar and recognised fascist battalion will ask for copensation from the occupiying faschist troops? . Germans paid for their faschists. Albanians didnt pay for their faschists (Bali Competar). To inform you, the copensation for a human's life is 10 times bigger that of a land or a house. So... its a good way for Greece to make some money from the transactions.. Since you love EU and democracy, you must know how it works... bad people pay
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Mimi
Amicus
Kosovo IS Albania!
Posts: 463
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Post by Mimi on Oct 31, 2008 14:11:03 GMT -5
BRING IT ON, its actually time for us to clear the air once and for all, till that happens we cannot forget or move on. its not good for us to keep it insde, to have so much anger, furstration and hate, we need to slove it since we cannot escape it we are neighbors after all.
i think its time for justice ;D, none should get away with it, those lives was worth something and they deserve some kind of justice we cannot just ignore it, its not fair to them.
and arvanitas, not that i think of them that often but i can only imagine what they must have gone through, the way they messed up with their heads making them so confused, playing on their vulnerability and thats just wrong. the just wanna survive and i understand that its hard to know what they are supposed to feel these days, thats the only life they know, its to late for them. but the fact that they still call themselves arvanitas and speak some kind of albanian got to mean something.
albanians are not the easiest to assimilate, many have tried to wipe our albanism out of us but failed. Serbs were not even close ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 31, 2008 14:37:41 GMT -5
Mimi "BRING IT ON," -------------------------------------------------- No Mimi.. YOU bring it on Greece follows what EU policies say. "No hostility with neighborhs". On the other hand, you can bring it on since you're not member of EU yet and you'll have full support of US. So, YOU bring it on. We'll not get into the mud infront of all European eyes. Fyrom (with the help of US, UK and Holland) once took Greece in the European court for the embargo. They lost! Greece had EVERY right to embargo Fyrom! Former commounist countries with American push play these games... not us. "its actually time for us to clear the air once and for all, till that happens we cannot forget or move on. its not good for us to keep it insde, to have so much anger, furstration and hate, we need to slove it since we cannot escape it we are neighbors after all." --------------------------------------------------------------- Again honey, its YOUR problem... not ours. Greeks didnt have any clue about what happened back then with Chams. The Greek state made it sure for the new generations to know nothing about this period so as not to hate our neighbors in the future.Now we learn and now you made the new generation of Greeks dealing with the issue. Now we know and you helped us with that. All this hate and frustration is your problem and your goverments (Hotza and the latest ones) decision to make you feel like that. Your problem! We never had bad feelings for Albanians for Cham issue. We didnt even know about Bali and Competar... we didnt know about Albanians taking the side of Nazis... we knew nothing! They never teached us these stuff. Now we know thanks to the Chams and things are changing... "i think its time for justice , none should get away with it, those lives was worth something and they deserve some kind of justice we cannot just ignore it, its not fair to them." ----------------------------------------------------------- i tottaly agree with that. What is for sure is that Albanian governemt knows the economic cost and it will never bring it in front of the justice. They will just keep giving you loads of hate for the Greeks... but without any action in front of international law. I assure you for that. Albania cannot afford these copensations. "and arvanitas..." ------------------------- Where that matches to our discussion? Arvanites are tottaly different topic... and as I said before... since Arvanites are the ones who decide... and since they have already decided... we just loose our time on this topic.
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Post by lozonjare on Oct 31, 2008 14:50:28 GMT -5
Thx for further proving my point, I mean c'mon ZOTI(s) is totally not Albanian at all
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 31, 2008 15:05:40 GMT -5
?? That means that.... Macedonians are Albanians too?? ;D ;D lozonjare.. get serious mate.. Short last names can be found all over Balkans and all over the world. Its true most of them with an -s at the end can become Greek.... but not if the owner of the last name dont want that to happen...
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Post by lozonjare on Oct 31, 2008 15:16:32 GMT -5
?? That means that.... Macedonians are Albanians too?? ;D ;D lozonjare.. get serious mate.. Short last names can be found all over Balkans and all over the world. Its true most of them with an -s at the end can become Greek.... but not if the owner of the last name dont want that to happen... The vast majority of Greeks have long last names, that is something that they're known for, and Albanians generally have short 4-5 letter last names. Epirote and Macedonians have short last names which correspond to their northern neighbors', I think that says a lot about their ancestry.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 31, 2008 18:19:13 GMT -5
Albanian Names ali, pasha, murat, fatmire, ahmet, arta, saranda, fani ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Nov 1, 2008 7:50:04 GMT -5
"Epirote and Macedonians have short last names which correspond to their northern neighbors', I think that says a lot about their ancestry." --------------------------------------------------------------------- why do I have the feeling that it says a lot for the ancestry of their northern neighbors..? ..afterall, am I the only one that cannot see Slavic characteristics or Albanian characteristics to south Balkans near the northern borders of Greece .. ? Try to think the other way around... and you'll find what you're looking for. Just twist a little bit your mind... and Hotza or Tito will not help you doing that... It will be your move in the new world you live in.. PS. Also I think you didnt pay much attention to the following.. "..Its true most of them with an -s at the end can become Greek.... but not if the owner of the last name dont want that to happen..." Try to analyze it..
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Post by vlaici on Nov 1, 2008 13:09:12 GMT -5
speaking of Ali Pasha...Since I just learned about him.. turns out he was an albanian ( surprise - surprise ) that collaborated w/ turks for power. Just to get shafted and beheaded by the same ppl that put him in power. Then you wonder how the turk-albanian connection came about... I saw the house and exact place where they pulled a taliban on him... I should of pissed in the place as well for good measure.. He actually wanted to create a Greek-Albanian state lol he didn't like Turks either, he was a one man show, it's not as if he treated Albanians better than Greeks, or Jews, or vice verca and he has a cool song Ali Pasha: the guy who destroyed Moscopole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscopole) , isn't he? "The 1769 sacking and pillaging by the Ottomans was just the first of a series of attacks, which culminated with the razing of 1788 by the troops of Ali Pasha. The survivors were thus forced to flee, most of them emigrating mainly to Thessaly and Macedonia (where they returned to their ancestral occupation of animal husbandry). Some of the commercial elite moved to Austria-Hungary, especially to the two capitals Vienna and Budapest, but also in Transylvania, where they had an important role in the early National awakening of Romania."The "good side" of the action of this Pasha: Moscopole was turning Greek, Vlachs being assimilated rapidly by the Greek culture surrounding them (as happens today with the remains of Arumanian population from Greece). Being forced to run away, they preserved their ethnicity.
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 1, 2008 13:17:32 GMT -5
Actually that article is antiquated. In recent years there have been more studies on Voskopoje and much more info has come out of it. Apparently in its later years, the city stopped becoming a stopping ground between caravans going from the north to Istanbul. This destroyed much of the wealth and prominence of the city and brought into heavy decline. During this decline a number of factions started to rise inside the city that started fighting from amongst each other. Its during this time that the outside forces come into play... Im not sure why. But what is clear is that the deterioration of the city was not brought about by Ali Pasha, a man who would have wanted the city to thrive if it could be under his control. The city declined internally and was finally brought to an end from without.
And as I see it, the good side to the death of Moscopole was that it destroyed any hope of cementing any center of Vlach culture in Korca (a region so heavily influenced by Vlachs) and allowed the Albanian culture dominated city of Korca to grow and thereby allow the area to go to Albania whereas otherwise it might have been even more disputed.
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Post by vlaici on Nov 4, 2008 14:10:11 GMT -5
I see: in those times, a minority had no chance to survive... How is it nowadays?
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Post by meltdown711 on Nov 4, 2008 16:11:15 GMT -5
The death of Moscopole damaged Vlach identity more then it helped maintain it. Although the city was dominated by the Greek Orthodox culture, it remained Vlach speaking and a center of Vlach political though. The death meant the death of the Vlach community.
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Post by proleteriat on Nov 4, 2008 17:19:23 GMT -5
I see: in those times, a minority had no chance to survive... How is it nowadays? have u voted today cobanke? ;D keep in mind that most people here who talk about vlachs, Voskopoja, Korca etc. dont really have an idea what they're talking about and only speak about what they read on the internet. There's a lot of vlachs in Boboshtice village of Korca Albania and some other places but we dont really see them as different from us. Korca the city most people have Albanian identity, of course its heavily influenced by vlachs and Greeks, but when you say you're from Korca you're immideiately admired/envied by other Albanians for being the best. If you say you are a vlach from Koritsa you're looked down upon and called malaka Alvane which might explain the strong Albanian identity of Korca as opposed to some other traitors in the south ;D ;D
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