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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 8, 2008 15:47:24 GMT -5
excuse me but you cant compare albanians and greeks in skin colors. dark skinned albanians are rare, you hardley see any its as rare as blond greeks with blue eyes ;D...they are even a mistery to us(if they say they are 100% albo). we call them dark albanian when talking about them. in kosovo i did meet a lot of people with blue/green eyes but most of them were brunettes so i am not saying we are blond but we do have a light skin. a few people does not count, some are different than others. we are very proud of who we are so if your trying to make us feel bad your gonna fail. we have survived a lot and not we are moving forward. I know a lot of Albanians who are "dark" in fact I am probably the whitest person in my family but my features are still dark, the city where I'm from a lot of people are dark, and no we don't shun the darker Albanians. If you are racist that's fine but don't speak for all Albanians please.
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 8, 2008 15:52:22 GMT -5
BringingCommunismBack "Hey man leave xhaxhi Enveri out of this!!!! "Artificial" lololololololoooooooooooooooooooooooooool What do you call Greece you're a wild mix of Arvanites, slavs, and Turks!!" --------------------------------------------------------- The problem that you cannot get is the following: ALL countries are made of tribes. Belonging in the tribe of Hellenes was a VOLUNTER procces. The tribes FOUGHT to be in the new country as Greeks. That is what makes Greece today a coherent country. PEOPLE decide to belong in a country named Greece... because they felt so.... Thats a Nation. In Albania, Fyrom, US and Turkey... it was NOT people's decision! Some big powers FORCED the existence of these state with people who dont feel nothing for its fellow citizens. Gehks had nothing to share with Tosks. Kirgisians in Turkey had nothing to share with Kurds or Greeks or Armenians. Black-Africans in US had nothing to share with Irish or Italian or Greek immigrants. Albanians in Fyrom have nothing to share with Bulgarians. Thats an artificial nation! It was made for some specific reasons WITHOUT the will of the citizens or the tribes leaving in the specific place. These "nations" usually colapse. See the USSR, Iraq, Tsechoslovakia, Yougoslavia etc etc. Whatever is not founded on VERY strong bases... collapses. "You can say all you want about Albanians but I bet if I posted a picture of myself your jaw would drop 6 feet under until you yourself were underground because I look straight up German!!" ------------------------------------------------------------- You look like German..?? I feel pity for you... lol lol I hope you'll never come in Halkidiki with your white spoted skin, wearing shorts with socks and sandals... lol lol "the good thing about Albanians is that they can always start fresh, the same thing was said about Germany," ------------------------------------------------------------------- The good thing for Albanians is that they live next to Greece . "whereas Greece is kind of like Egypt or Assyrians..glory of what once was, ancient history, what will never become aga" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- aga?? Greeks have a wonderfull life with lot of laugh. Open heards and enjoy their life. If that is not glory for a nation.. then what is it? To bomb 3rd world countries? Greece, despite the economic conditions, was the FIRST country per person in donations for the tsunami in Asia! Not from official organizations.. but from donations of SIMPLE citizens. Dude... Greece still teaches civilization! Remember that... Gegs have nothing in common with tosks except common language and common traditions. I'm not saying we're exactly the same but don't tell me that someone from Preveza is the same as someone from Crete you get the point? North and Southern Greeks are very different too...and I said I look like a German because I'm tall and white but I can tan well too Since Greece is made up of all these wonderful tribes then aren't tosks and gegs different ALBANIAN tribes as well?
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 8, 2008 16:14:04 GMT -5
Yes... you're right about Gehks and Tosks about almost common language ... tottal different religion... .... and tottal different habits in everyday life. You right that Macedonians have some differences in everyday life with Atheneas lets say.... or Kretans... or whatever... What you dont mention is that Kretans FOUGHT to be side by side with Macedonians. Macedonians FOUGHT to be side by side with Southernes etc etc. Gehks and Tosks didnt fought for being together! English fought for them in 19th century! for them to be.... one nation! Thats the difference. It was not people's decision. Tosks would never missed Gehks if Albania was never a formal country. A Kretan would never sleep if Macedonians were not next to him in the same nation.Thats the big difference.
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 8, 2008 16:30:06 GMT -5
^^What are you talking about are you crazy? What about Ismail Qemali? What about all the people from Vlora that fought for independence, that's where Albania got its independence in Vlora which is essentially the heart of Laberia. What about the fact that the first Albanian schools were open in the south? Fan Noli was an Orthodox "tosk" lol and he worked for the Albanian cause and Skenderbeu united tosks and gegs. There's an Albanian story about two brothers fighting with each other and then they end up killing each other and their sister is left to cry for their death. We read that story in elementary school in Albania(yes in the south lol) One of the brothers was tosk, the other geg, I think the sister represents Albania besides there are Tosk Muslims what do you think they are?? I can't wait to hear this. I'll have you know there are cities in South Albania that are largely Orthodox and the people are mostly anti-Greek. I am from one of those cities
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 8, 2008 16:55:33 GMT -5
"There's an Albanian story about two brothers fighting with each other and then they end up killing each other and their sister is left to cry for their death. We read that story in elementary school in Albania(yes in the south lol) One of the brothers was tosk, the other geg, I think the sister represents Albania " --------------------------------------------------------------- There is not a similar story in Greece. There was no need for this. Do you get me now.. ? "besides there are Tosk Muslims what do you think they are?? I can't wait to hear this. I'll have you know there are cities in South Albania that are largely Orthodox and the people are mostly anti-Greek. I am from one of those cities " ------------------------------------------------------------ yeah I know. That is what propaganda is needed. Dont you even wonder... how it comes and there is so much hate in Albania for Greece... taking the fact the Greece was NEVER in war with Albania, that Greece had NEVER had hostile policy against Albania, That Greece had NEVER threatened Albania with war , that Greece was the FIRST country to accept Albanian immigrants when Italians used to kill you in Ionians Sea into the ships.. when Greece accept the BIGGEST amount of Albanian immigrants, that Greek simple people were given their clothes, rooms to sleep, food to the Albanians who were jumping the electric fence of Hotza separating Albania from Greece etc etc etc Dont you feel that something is not going well here? If I was Albanian and I heard that Italians had killed so many of my kind in a ship in the middle of the sea... I would have hate them forever. But... you never hear not even one bad word for Italy. You have learned to hate Greece. That is how genisaries are... they get learned to hate first their "blood".. You're a product of propaganda mate. That is what you're. You're like the first Albanians who came in Greece and telling us that Hotza told them they should watch out for the Greeks because Greeks will suddenly attack Albania and will kill them all. They were telling us these stories.... while we were at the beach bars with beers... and we were all laughing together. We had no idea of this sh.it lol lol ... we had no idea that we will attack Albania! lol lol You're a poor product. Keep that way product. Uncle Sam needs you.
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 8, 2008 17:13:30 GMT -5
^^Look at you you dont even know me and you're already spewing so much hatred in my direction. Who's the real product of propaganda and hate??? What I found the most astounding is that you find my tosk/geg story so surprising, I'm sorry do you not know your own history? You mean to tell me in ancient Greece Spartans/Macedonians/Athenians were one big happy family??? There is not a collective hate in Albania for Greece, there is dislike for some of Greece's policy's towards Albania(some of which is indeed hostile) Besides I'm not one of those Albanians who thinks Italy is totally cool and awesome, I know Italy is more racist towards Albanian immigrants and they don't even have a fraction of the Albanian immigrants Greece has. So I'm not a crazy fan of Italy. Besides Italy does not border Albania, if it did, Albanians would hate them too...ever heard of the Franco-Prussian war, the 1st World War etc, what reason does France and Germany have to hate each other, other than they border each other? Neighboring countries=problems. You still didn't answer my question. If you think you have some sort of kinship towards tosks that are Orthodox what about the Muslim/Bektashi ones because I view Muslim/Bektashi tosks closer than any Orthodox Russian/Greek/Serb etc. And another thing, shouldn't you feel a closer kinship with Cams than with Orthodox Albanians, makes more sense since you lived with them longer doesn't it? Or did you not live with them because you're from Crete and never had any contact with the alien people of Epirus? I have my own theory about that general area in Epirus as a whole by the way, but if I went into detail about it it would upsete both Albanians and Greeks so lets leave the can of worms unopened ;D So yea peace to everyone except Jews(LOL Joking)
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 8, 2008 17:37:12 GMT -5
Yes they do... Most Tosks and Ghegs are Muslims. Exception being that most Tosks are, like my family, Bektashi Muslim. And you have no clue as to what Albanian habits are. Wrong again, Tosks were the first to propose an independent Albanian state and never considered being in a different entity then Ghegs. The founders of the Albanian national ideology (Albanianism) borrowed off of each other. The Frasheri's, brothers who defined with the Tosk identity quite strongly actually, defined Albania as a territory that started in Kosovo and ended in Janina. Konstantin Kristoforidhi translated the Bible from Greek not into Tosk Albanian but into Gheg Albanian. Cerciz Topulli, born in Gjirokaster, died in northern Albania fighting Serbs. Fan Noli's main supporters were Albanians from Kosova. The only difference is that Tosks were more connected to the Ottoman Empire since northern Albania was almost entirely independent. Stop trying to teach us out history. There is nothing more irritating then hearing an idiot lecture us on our own history. As for why we dislike you, its simple: there is no reason to like you.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 8, 2008 18:15:25 GMT -5
... yeah.... yeah... but other things is what Tosks are telling us here in Greece . They dont like you Toskali... live with it They prefer living side by side with Greeks than with Gehg Muslims. It was always like that.. wasnt it? Is it a coincedence that Orthodox Tosks prefer to live side by side with Greeks than with Muslim Gehgs? Is it a coincedence that Orthodox Tosks are not very popular in the Albanian forum? Is it a coincedence that most of the Greek haters of the Albanian forum... are Muslims, Kossovars or just Gehgs. For sure... thats not a coincedence Turkalbanian.
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 8, 2008 18:34:46 GMT -5
Yes they do... Most Tosks and Ghegs are Muslims. Exception being that most Tosks are, like my family, Bektashi Muslim. And you have no clue as to what Albanian habits are. Wrong again, Tosks were the first to propose an independent Albanian state and never considered being in a different entity then Ghegs. The founders of the Albanian national ideology (Albanianism) borrowed off of each other. The Frasheri's, brothers who defined with the Tosk identity quite strongly actually, defined Albania as a territory that started in Kosovo and ended in Janina. Konstantin Kristoforidhi translated the Bible from Greek not into Tosk Albanian but into Gheg Albanian. Cerciz Topulli, born in Gjirokaster, died in northern Albania fighting Serbs. Fan Noli's main supporters were Albanians from Kosova. The only difference is that Tosks were more connected to the Ottoman Empire since northern Albania was almost entirely independent. Stop trying to teach us out history. There is nothing more irritating then hearing an idiot lecture us on our own history. As for why we dislike you, its simple: there is no reason to like you. A lot of southern Albanian cities are majority Orthodox actually but it means nothing because they are not religious or if they are they don't feel Greek, and the ones who do are not Albanian lol
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 8, 2008 18:38:09 GMT -5
... yeah.... yeah... but other things is what Tosks are telling us here in Greece . They dont like you Toskali... live with it They prefer living side by side with Greeks than with Gehg Muslims. It was always like that.. wasnt it? Is it a coincedence that Orthodox Tosks prefer to live side by side with Greeks than with Muslim Gehgs? Is it a coincedence that Orthodox Tosks are not very popular in the Albanian forum? Is it a coincedence that most of the Greek haters of the Albanian forum... are Muslims, Kossovars or just Gehgs. For sure... thats not a coincedence Turkalbanian. Well a lot of Gegs from Shkodra and Malesia(Montenegro) are Catholic. Do you love them? actually from what I've seen, the Kosovars and some other ethnic Albanians in this forum are the biggest asskissers when it comes to Greeks I know Orthodox Palestinians who love Greeks like an only son, are they Greek too? lololol....besides, if u love Orthodox Tosks so much why do you still call them, like you call all other Albanians, koloalvanoi?
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 8, 2008 19:18:29 GMT -5
Is that every Tosk in my family has Gheg relatives and vice versa? Why 3 out of 4 of my mothers brothers and sisters have wives/husbands from Shkoder and why so many Albanians from the north are married to southern Albanian? Again, you dont know you shouldnt speak. Most of the Albanian weddings I have been to are often mixed northern Albanian and southern Albanian. And thanks to communism bringing everything to Tirana, almost everyone in their family has extended family in Shkoder or somewhere else. Dont know, dont speak. Again, dont lecture me on this issue.
What makes you think that?
As I have said before, most Kosovars dont give too houts about Greeks. The reason they dont like you is because you guys sided with Serbia. In southern Albania "Grek" is an insult. Where are Greek flags burned? In south or north?
There is a lot of animosity between southern Albanians and northern Albanians at times, however Tosks dont somehow "side" with Greeks. Labs are Tosks(as far as I am concerned at least), so are Chams.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 8, 2008 19:50:03 GMT -5
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 8, 2008 20:06:26 GMT -5
Basil,
before Albanians went to Greece they didn't use to hate Greeks...perhaps is about time to ask yourself why Albanians in Greece hate Greeks?
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Oct 9, 2008 2:50:50 GMT -5
oh i don't know about that, i mean there was always hostilities, we did not regard them as friends or a state we were 'down with' but it true the hatred intensified after the borders opened,
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Post by kapetan on Oct 9, 2008 2:59:31 GMT -5
Am I the only one for who religion isn't even a factor when deciding who to like?..........lol
Oh and...lets go (..............Edit............)!
lolz
-------------------------------------------------- Sorry, Greek or English only.
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Post by tsompanos on Oct 9, 2008 5:51:28 GMT -5
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 9, 2008 7:13:26 GMT -5
Despite the very...interesting subject introduced in our little chat by Kapetan...staying in the thread's subject this quote by Galenos(Mixtures) is usefull: So much for the formation of the hair; we should now pass on to the features of all the incidental features of the mixtures, as regards the differences of hair according to age, place, and nature of the body. The hair of Egyptians, Arabs, Indians, and of general all peoples who inhabit hot, dry places, has poor growth and is black, dry, curly and brittle. That of the inhabitants of cold, wet places, conversely - Illyrians, Germans, Dalmatians, Sauromatians, and the Scythian types of people in general- has reasonably good growth and is thin, straight, and red. Those who live in some well-balanced land(Greeks) which is between these in quality have hair with extremely good growth(Hairy Greeks , which is strong, fairly black, moderately thick, and neither completely curly nor completely straight. The differences due to age are analogous to these: with regard to the qualities of strength, thickness, size, and colour, infants’ hair is similar to the Germans’, hair in the prime of life to the Ethiopians’, and that of ephebes and children to the hair of people of well-balanced lands.
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 9, 2008 16:18:26 GMT -5
BringingCommunismBack "I know Orthodox Palestinians who love Greeks like an only son, are they Greek too? lololol....besides, if u love Orthodox Tosks so much why do you still call them, like you call all other Albanians, koloalvanoi?" ------------------------------------------------------- Although I like a lot the Palestinians, these is a problem with their intergration in the Greek society. They're Arabs. There are obvious reasons and you recognise an Arab. Also they're Muslims and they have different way living. On the other hand, a Tosk, is similar facially to a Greek, has the same way of living due to the long coexistance and they have also almost the same way of thinking/ customs etc etc. With an extensive course in Greek language and an -s at the end of the last name (which by the way is like a Greek last name without the -s)... and... oops.. we have a new Greek in the neighborhood.
Also I have never used the word koloalvanoi... ever. Its not my level. I use very often and only for the Kossovars or the Gehks the term Turkalbanian. Its more like a wish for many of them than an insult. Just go and check in the Alb forum how much your dudes love the Turkish "culture" and generally how close they feel with the Turks. Its more like a wish than an insult for them. So...
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Post by Kassandros on Oct 9, 2008 16:26:27 GMT -5
Toskalicu "What makes you think that?" ------------------------------------ I told you. I used to work in a huge beach bar in Halkidiki with Albanians. They were separated in 2 groups, Tosks and Gheks, and they were hating eachother. More than 10 times I was involved to stop them from stubing eachother. Only once I was absent.. and Gehks stubed a Tosk on the solder. It was like a war, especially in weekends when 3000 customers were there and nerves were so high. Everytime, Tosks, used to come to the boss or to me and the other Greek employees and they were telling us that we must get rid of the Gehks because bla bla bla. A thousand reasons. If that was not hate... then what is it? You'll never see that between 2 groups of Greek immigrants in a foreign country. Our friendships are not based on tribal characteristiks. We love eachother
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 9, 2008 16:37:02 GMT -5
^^yea but Palestinians are more similar to Greeks, probably more to some Greeks facially tosks may be similar to northern Greeks but sorry to break it to u bro the rest of Greece looks more like Arabs your tale is fascinating, aren't most Albanian immigrants in Greece Tosk though? as far as the lovely "koloalvanoi" term i know for a fact Greeks used to even call "northern epirotes" that let alone tosk Albanians......just look at this forum almost all the Kosovars seem to be pro Greek, while me and Libofsha not so much, and we're Tosk
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