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Post by chalkedon on Sept 26, 2008 4:29:30 GMT -5
1. Can anybody tell me what does it mean "pelasgs" in Greek? 2. If Greeks were Pelasgians (as some scholars pretend see History Forum - Ancient Greece ) why did Greeks change the name to Hellens? The were native inhabitiants of the Hellenic Peninsula ( but they too must of came from somewhere ) before the various hellenic speaking tribes came into the area. I wonder how far back do you guys want to take this debate too ? Do you want a genelogical database spanning from adam & eve or from the homo sapiens of africa ? This is a ridiculuous debate...in any case...the hellenic tribes assimilated the native pelasgians and formed the hellenic identity of that time. Who were the pelasgians exactly ? nobody i think can give a clear answer, but one thing is for sure...they became " one " with the peoples that settled there.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 26, 2008 5:29:52 GMT -5
2. If Greeks were Pelasgians (as some scholars pretend see History Forum - Ancient Greece Anceint and modern scholars didn't pretend my dear Hi hi hi [/b] why did Greeks change the name to Hellens? [/quote] We didn't change anything. We were Hellenes or Ellines etc; The term Greek I beleive was introduced to us by the Romans "Magna Grecia, Grecians etc; then evolved to Greek "in todays English" etc;" by memory too lazy to look up for it now, anywayz hint "Greco, Roman Empire".We want to make it Hellenes or Ellines again, like old times sake. .
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Sept 26, 2008 7:03:31 GMT -5
1. Can anybody tell me what does it mean "pelasgs" in Greek? 2. If Greeks were Pelasgians (as some scholars pretend see History Forum - Ancient Greece ) why did Greeks change the name to Hellens? The were native inhabitiants of the Hellenic Peninsula ( but they too must of came from somewhere ) before the various hellenic speaking tribes came into the area. I wonder how far back do you guys want to take this debate too ? Do you want a genelogical database spanning from adam & eve or from the homo sapiens of africa ? This is a ridiculuous debate...in any case...the hellenic tribes assimilated the native pelasgians and formed the hellenic identity of that time. Who were the pelasgians exactly ? nobody i think can give a clear answer, but one thing is for sure...they became " one " with the peoples that settled there. that's one way of looking at it, the most plausible however is that a portion of the pelasgian(the first dwellers of the penninsula) mixed with the nomad hellenic peoples, the other pelasgian tribes remained untouched and gave way to what became known as the illyrians thus paving the way albanian, the ancient writing of lemnos stele can only be tranlated through and only by albanian language, the writings transcribe the legend of a warrior in what anthropologists believe is the writing of the ancients before it was polluted by greek
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Post by chalkedon on Sept 26, 2008 7:19:04 GMT -5
I agree with pretty much everything you said...I also think the pelasgians branched off to become illyrians as well. Greek didnt pollute anything, it just refined those heirglyphics at the time. Illyrians could of done the same but chose to use our alphabet that we created. And why not...Illyrians and Hellenes were practically cousins.
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Sept 26, 2008 7:29:31 GMT -5
I agree with pretty much everything you said...I also think the pelasgians branched off to become illyrians as well. Greek didnt pollute anything, it just refined those heirglyphics at the time. Illyrians could of done the same but chose to use our alphabet that we created. And why not...Illyrians and Hellenes were practically cousins. i didn't mean pollution as in they stained it or that pelasgian was worse off because of it, i meant greek interfered with their language
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Post by chalkedon on Sept 26, 2008 7:44:11 GMT -5
Again, wrong approach...Greek i believe was influenced as well. Does that mean its " interference " ? Not at all...with a few changes it worked perfect for us. So why would the illyrians have to re-invent the wheel when they have a perfect writing system to use. For their own needs as well...
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Sept 26, 2008 7:59:42 GMT -5
of course, its give and take, both sides influenced each other but the pelasgians were the original inhabitants and any civilisation thereafter would be the 'interefence', anyway, the term greek does not apply to this particular era, where the civilisation collided, at the time 'greekness' was not applicable, we're talking about proto-hellenic tribes, who within themselves had various languages.
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Kanaris
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This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Sept 26, 2008 8:01:44 GMT -5
So all this time the great pelasgians are living north of us... When looking for your past...it's so easy just to ponder and pick what you think fits your needs. Today you say one thing yesterday was another.... who knows what the future.. will hold .... it really doesn't matter... Then again all these defunct tribes..remind me of the native American Indians.... pretty useless junk occupying the earth and doing nothing with it ..absolutely no progress... the strong and the intelligent always will inherit and occupy the weak.
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Post by chalkedon on Sept 26, 2008 8:08:57 GMT -5
Libo...the pelasgians came from somewhere as well...
Its hard trying to determine what came first....the chicken or the egg. Who is to say the pelasgians didnt assimilate some other local community over there.
Also, there is no mention of conflict between the hellenic speaking tribes and the natives which usually isnt the case. It was almost like they agreed to it. Now for albanians to stake claim of direct lineage to pelasgians is extrememly hard to prove. You would first have to connect yourselves with the illyrians ( i dont dispute this ). In any case...if you come up with some new facts stating your connection to the illyrian/pelasgian theory, I would be more than happy to see it.
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Post by chalkedon on Sept 26, 2008 8:10:12 GMT -5
yeah Kanaris...
i feel bad for those indians as well...alcoholism and a lost way of life really crippled em over....
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Post by greek1234 on Sept 26, 2008 8:19:47 GMT -5
"they were neolothic greek" this statement warrants a subsequent disregard to everything you will ever have to say about anything, it personifies everything that present days greek are, ridiculous! One theory is the Pelasgians where a tribe of the great Neolithic Mediterranean pioneers who left the fertile crescent navigated to Europe via Anatolia and north Africa bringing the invention of farming, the Pelasgi are one of the descendants of the 'Neolithic man'. Later came the broad skulled Indo European speech bringers intermingling with the older inhabitants and forming the Hellenic race. Anyways these are all theories and i doubt we will ever know the exact truth. But a fact remains they where Greeks or Hellenized proto inhabitants.
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Sept 26, 2008 9:07:27 GMT -5
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 26, 2008 9:30:30 GMT -5
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Post by Duke John on Sept 26, 2008 9:49:50 GMT -5
To me personally it does not matter if Albanians are Illyrians or Thracians or the mix of ancient balkans nations, what very important to me is that Albanians are Natives in Balkans while some others are not.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
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Post by Kanaris on Sept 26, 2008 10:13:34 GMT -5
Why is it important?
Look at the Americans...they are not native to North America... but have become the greatest force to be reckoned with.
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Post by Duke John on Sept 26, 2008 10:19:19 GMT -5
Why is it important? Look at the Americans...they are not native to North America... but have become the greatest force to be reckoned with. It is importand in basic educational level especially to those who live in diaspora since diasporans seem to be very nationalistic and seem to be interested in this kind of things, they should teach their kids who and what and where they came from to balkans since its very well documented and pressed in history books.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 27, 2008 19:06:28 GMT -5
^ Dardanians one example, which are the in Kosovo today.
Mmm don't know about this............. About Dardanians-Trojans and others Dionisios Allicarnassus-(Roman archaeology .a'61 k.ex) <<And the trojan nation hellenic from peloponisos came forth>> Διονυσιος Ο Αλλικαρνασευς (Ρωμ.Αρχ.α'61κ.εξ.) <<...και το Τρωων εθνος ελληνικον ην εκ πελοπονησου ποτε ωρμημενων >> Agon Homer & hesiod,Papyrus III,dublin 1891,page 70) <<And the Trojan genos is Hellenic from the start>> Αγων Ομηρου και Ησιοδου,Παπυρος ΙΙΙ,Δουβλ. 1891 σελ 70) <<και το Τρωικον γενος ελληνικον αρχηθεν ην>> Also Homer gives us the geneaology. Dardanus is Arcadian thus Greek.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Sept 27, 2008 19:11:49 GMT -5
Pelasgians = Greeks, Illyrians = Greeks; Troyan = Greeks...what's left?
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 27, 2008 19:12:01 GMT -5
Kanaris, here are some: Amantes, Buliones, Taulantis, Enkeleids, Desarets, Dalmateas, Abri, Docleate, Ardiaei, Ardian, etc. Had the time to check some of these and are you sure about this teuta ? lolol teuta can you give us the proper names "NOT the Albanian translations or version of the names thanks, so we can have a bit of a giggle. Does "Taulantis" mean Atlantis lollolololollllll roflll atlantisinalbania.blogspot.com/2006/07/atlantis-is-in-albaniapt3story-of.html
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Post by Teuta1975 on Sept 27, 2008 19:16:13 GMT -5
Arxileas, those names are more or less the ones presented in your map...
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