|
Post by PrijesDardanian on Sept 3, 2008 16:24:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Sept 3, 2008 16:37:23 GMT -5
To correct you... it was an incedent between Faschist Group of "Golden Down" and some Commounists in the Macedonian village of Xino Nero. I'm from a Macedonian village myself and that happened there too some years ago in a national holiday.
Try to inform people in the right way. Maknews has its own ways and agenda with the news titles...
|
|
|
Post by leandros nikon on Sept 4, 2008 21:04:43 GMT -5
Theres a small slavic minority in north greece,of bulgarian descent.Since we dont accept the existance of a macedonian nationality,we cannot recognise any macedonian minority in our country.These people r equally brainwashed bulgarians to the ones of fyrom.Marshall Tito's propaganda and the greek state's prolonged tolerance has led to today's situation.
|
|
|
Post by leandros nikon on Sept 4, 2008 21:09:30 GMT -5
As about Basil talking about communists,its partly true...trully,greek communists after their defeat in the greek civil war (1944-1948),went to Fyrom and embraced the communist-Tito's- theory concerning the macedonian nationality.they became "macedonians".
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Sept 5, 2008 14:59:09 GMT -5
Greek commounists who fled the country had never forgiven Greece for their defeat. They were so obsessed with commounism that they prefered to live the country than living in a country without commounism. Of course that hate... was perfectly manipulated by Tito. They never had national conciousness. They had political consiousness and it was so easy to be baptized "Fyromians". In the beggining it was them who didnt want to come back in Greece. Many came from USSR. But from Fyrom.. none. Now they want to come back.. but Greece doesnt accept them.
It is true these people are Macedonians... but the problem is they hate anything Greek because Greece denied their political views. Now I believe its too late. They have already exchanged their Macedonian ID with a Fyromian one... and they have become Jannisaries. Now its too late.. unfortunately for them.. and for us the Macedonians who lost a percent of our population and exchange it with other Greeks from Pontus and Asia Minor.
As a Macedonian it hurts me. As a Greek... I prefer the newcomer refuggees from these commounisto-Fyromian fanatic robots. Sad story..
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Sept 5, 2008 15:35:38 GMT -5
There isnt a Macedonian minority in Greek Makedonia, there is only a Macedonian majority.
|
|
|
Post by leandros nikon on Sept 5, 2008 17:21:35 GMT -5
Its interesting though that many macedonians were bilingual or did not even speak greek at all...but they contributed for the greek cause during the macedonian strugle of 1904-1908...which is obviously another piece of evidence which proves that smbdy's language is not a very basic element which determines his national conciousness...
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Sept 6, 2008 3:25:14 GMT -5
Of course language was never an important element in the national conciousness. My village was the first that raised against the Ottomans in 1821 and it was again the first that fought in the Macedonian Struggle. Although we were never Slavophones (we had a Greek school since Ottoman years)... we knew very well that many of our brothers in Western Macedonia didnt have the chance to have a Greeks school.. and that was not problem at all. We just accepted the fact that there are member of our Macedonian commounity that couldnt learn Greek to their children. It was no problem for us and it was not a problem for them too. We both knew we're Macedonians and we had to fight against Bulgarians (today.. Fyromians )
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Sept 6, 2008 7:27:00 GMT -5
You had slavophones as well Basil in Serres...I dont believe in "they didnt have the chance to teach Greek to their children"....you know...you dont need schools to speak Greek at home. If you are Greek you speak Greek, if a Slav, slavic. There are probably only very few cases where slavophones were of Greek origin. Having a Greek consciousness doesnt make you automatically ethically Greek. Many Slavs were rather graecized.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 6, 2008 7:40:38 GMT -5
Theres a small slavic minority in north greece,of bulgarian descent.Since we dont accept the existance of a macedonian nationality,we cannot recognise any macedonian minority in our country.These people r equally brainwashed bulgarians to the ones of fyrom.Marshall Tito's propaganda and the greek state's prolonged tolerance has led to today's situation. Hmmm, i never met a single Serb knowing the Serb history behind the toponyms of Epirus. If tito had an explicit anti-Greek agenda i am sure he would have no problem to include such a spectacular evidence as well.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 6, 2008 7:43:18 GMT -5
P.S. Kastor, you'll get some points from me. You seem to be a person that loves the truth. Lies dont lead anywhere forward.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Sept 6, 2008 8:50:20 GMT -5
I course I love the truth. Its thousand times more important than national interests. How shall we find peace in the region if we arent able to face facts. This goes for everyone.
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Sept 7, 2008 5:54:24 GMT -5
Kastor, "You had slavophones as well Basil in Serres..." ------------------------------------------------------ First of all to get things straight. I dont speak about Serres as a region. I speak clearly about my village. Of course there were Bulgarians in Serres. They had their own villages as Muslims had their own villages. Villages were not mixed. During the Macedonian Struggle many Bulgarians fled from their villages. But the biggest percent of Bulgarians who left Serres was after the WW2 from the fear of revenge. Bulgarians were assigned from Germans the Serres region. They were some how.. brutal.. especially with the villages that took place in the Macedonian Struggle some 40 years ago in 1900 (they came with lists of names and they were searching the Kids! of the warriors of the Macedonian Struggle)... and after the retreat of the Germans.. Bulgarian soldiers and people from the villages around my village dissapeared in one night back in Bulgaria. "I dont believe in "they didnt have the chance to teach Greek to their children"....you know...you dont need schools to speak Greek at home. If you are Greek you speak Greek, if a Slav, slavic." --------------------------------------------------------- It will be nice to say that to thousands of Greek Americans and RossoPontians who dont have a clue of the Greek language.. "There are probably only very few cases where slavophones were of Greek origin. Having a Greek consciousness doesnt make you automatically ethically Greek. Many Slavs were rather graecized." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What is ethnically... Greek? Greeks are not one gene! Many tribes with the same culture... and almost! the same language became one nation. Thats it. That is why you can see even the facial characteristics differ from one region to another. In case people who were ethnically Slavs, felt that they have culturally more common things with Greeks..... they have every right to name themselves Greeks. They have the same right with a Pontian in Caucasus region who identifies himself as a Greek. Hellenism was never an issue of genes. Hellenism was always an idea. Either you embrace it and automaticaly you and your children mostly are Greeks or not. Even the ones who came in 1922 from Anatolia didnt speak one word in Greek. They new only Turkish. Do you believe.. they less Greeks than you or me? Kastor.. I dont thing I agree with your theory about the Greekness of the Slavophones. Means... Pontians with their Russian language and Asia Minor Refuggees from Smyrna with their Turkish language were more Greeks than them? No mate...
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Sept 7, 2008 6:20:41 GMT -5
You cant compare those groups...Greek Americans and Rossopontians lived quite isloated...far away from Greece. Additionally I dont believe the Rossopontians are only Greek....none can tell me they havent mixed with the other peoples living there. The same goes now with Greek Americans as well. Besides, if they cannot speak their mother tongue anymore....its always in favor of their countrys official language.
On the other hand...we have the slavophones of Greek Makedonia...whose "capital" Thessaloniki has always been a centre of Hellenism, where always Greek has been spoken, since its foundation. Why should these slavophone "Greeks" stop speaking their mother tongue in order to learn bulgarian and this all living under turkish rule? This makes no sense at all to me...the best and most reasonable explanation is...they simply were Bulgarians. And even if bulgarian was dominating there...why was in cities like Kastoria spoken Greek only...and some kilometres further north..in Florina...only bulgarian? Why couldnt the Greeks of Kastoria be assimilated? Why not the Vlachs? But the only the "Greeks" one village further...lets say north?
Orthodox people that came from Asia Minor to Greece 1922 were not all ethnic Greeks, yes thats what I think. Someone who could speak turkish only and doesnt know a word of Greek is probably also not Greek in origin. My grandfather for example came from Asia Minor as little child and couldnt speak a sentence in turkish...his parents could yes...because they were merchants...but at home...only Greek...never turkish...thats why he and his siblings couldnt speak turkish...
|
|
|
Post by Arxileas on Sept 7, 2008 10:17:09 GMT -5
My ancestors were there in Macedonia, south of Serres regions before any Greek exchange programs btw Greece and Turkey. We had a few Bulgarians who were assimilated after a few decades as I was told by my folks. SlavMakedonio I was told were on the North as way up, that’s how I remember it.
I have no Slavic, Bulgar or any other influence or heritage not that is anything wrong with them. Am just stating the truth. It's a shame to even hide the fact some Greeks may have had some Bulgar / Slavic influence.
Remember blood and ethnicity is not related, that it's self should be self evident.....
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Sept 7, 2008 12:09:37 GMT -5
Exactly.
I myself look rather like a Slav than a Greek.....still all of my makedonian family was Greek speaking only. But they were all light types with usually light eyes...who knows perhaps my ancestors were once Slavs that got graecized...I wouldnt have a problem with it if it would be true...
|
|
|
Post by tsompanos on Sept 7, 2008 16:05:49 GMT -5
no place in the whoal world is genetically pure and if you want to know slavs didnt only affect northern greece , the slavic gene can be found in almost all greeks from all over. And blue eyes and blond hair doesnt have to be from slavs , in that case almost all of the balkanians would be blond and have blue eyes but thats not the case dont forget that in the balkans including greece we have had goth , slav , celt , hun etc invasions during mediaval times we in Greece have had various mercenarys including vikings (varangians) and other more western europeans , plus ancients greeks where probebly not the same from the beginning lets say a typicall spartan would no be as a typicall athenian considering spartans where dorians and athenians ionians but they where both 100% greek it was the idea as you said earlier as for slavophones not beeing greeks i dont know , but dont forget that plenty of greeks have been slavicized to
|
|
|
Post by tsompanos on Sept 7, 2008 16:09:25 GMT -5
if you think so about slavophones then shouldnt arvanites and vlachs also be considered non greeks? and why do urums and gagauz identify themselfs as greeks? and there are more
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Sept 7, 2008 16:24:13 GMT -5
No you got me wrong. I dont have any problem that there are people of nongreek origin who feel Greek and consider themselves as such. They are Greeks like everyone else. And as you say none is genetically pure. The ancient Greeks were also a mix of many different tribes. I doubt that the ancient Mycenaens and the Dorians were genetically the same... Its the ones who claim that every person that considers himself as Greek is simultaneously ethnic Greek, who apparently cannot deal with the fact that there are also many Greeks of nongreek origin...otherwise they wouldnt in such a convulsive way try to convince us of their views. Look at Karta...if arvanitika, vlach, turkish, slavomacedonian....they are all of ancient (!) Greek origin...at any price...if neccessary albanians romanians turks and bulgarians are made Greeks as well...so we are on the safe side... ... Im tired of this mindset...to me its primitive...stupid...and not contemporary....I cant live in a illusory world...I can live very well with reality. And I will always say what I think...I feel Im obligated to do so because I want my people to be enlightened and bright.
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Sept 7, 2008 17:39:21 GMT -5
fyi
blond and blue eyes are not and never were historicly a Mediterranean trait .. forget what any books wanted to glamorize with ..
thats like saying polar bears in Africa
|
|