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Post by kartadolofonos on Jul 17, 2008 11:05:56 GMT -5
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 17, 2008 12:38:18 GMT -5
karta, do you know any site that contains ALL the pictures and info from ALL the Macedonian warriors of Macedonian Struggle? Something like the above... but with a sence of immobility
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jul 17, 2008 13:18:31 GMT -5
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 17, 2008 13:26:56 GMT -5
Thanks re Karta
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Post by diurpaneus on Jul 18, 2008 14:11:05 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 18, 2008 14:41:01 GMT -5
Let their descendants be Greek if they want to.
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 18, 2008 14:49:44 GMT -5
What Vlachs have to do with the Romanians except a language with a lot of common Latin worlds inside?
Vlachs is a tribe who always were moving ONLY in Western Balkans from the north of Albania down to southwest Greece. Romanians is a tribe that were settled ONLY in northeastern Balkan peninsula. They didnt have any kind of interactions. Where is the common ground between them Diurpaneus? Even the costumes you present us have nothing to do with Vlach tradition.
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Post by diurpaneus on Jul 18, 2008 14:49:51 GMT -5
Let their descendants be Greek if they want to. I couldn`t do anything about it even if I wanted to.
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Post by diurpaneus on Jul 18, 2008 14:51:40 GMT -5
Even the costumes you present us have nothing to do with Vlach tradition. Those are not "costumes" The fact that you didn`t realise I posted images of Romans and Dacians/Thracians proves that you know next to nadda about history so you don`t deserve an answer. Grüß Gott ! ;D
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 18, 2008 15:04:56 GMT -5
Romans and Dacians?? Ancestors?? lol lol Its the first time in world history that a tribe has kept NOTHING, not even one common piece of cloth or design, from their ancestors. lol lol Never mind. Keep promote the idea. Fyromians feel so alone in Balkans... A second to be humiliated would be a true help for them.
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Post by diurpaneus on Jul 18, 2008 15:11:55 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 18, 2008 15:38:37 GMT -5
The Vlachs have common origins with Romanians, as Arvanites have common origins with Albanians, and the slavophones of Macedonia have common origins with the Bulgarians. (at least usually).
This shouldnt be doubted....if we Greeks finally accept the truth, the things as they are regarding these people...the Romanians, Albanians and Bulgarians will perhaps also finally accept that these groups in Greece feel only Greek and are an inseperable part of our Greek society. I dont see a problem here.
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 19, 2008 21:40:57 GMT -5
Kastoriane... Vlachs were never came in contact with Romanians. NEVER. How can they have common origins? Vlachs were nomads moving in WESTERN parts of Balkan peninsula... and Romanians were settlers imobilized in the EASTERN parts of N.EAST part of Balkan peninsula. They had never had a contact... except some Greek merchants who went to set their enterprises near Danube riber and Moldovlachia. They were the same who were the leaders of Philiki Etairia and started the revolution of ... Greece... not Romania There is NO physical contact between Vlachs and Romanians. How can we speak about same origins?
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Post by diurpaneus on Jul 20, 2008 4:51:13 GMT -5
basilmacedon you are talking nonsense and you are only making a fool of yourself.
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 20, 2008 5:39:18 GMT -5
very sophisticated analysis Diurpaneus.. I'm impressed from your deep and well thought thesis..
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 20, 2008 7:32:07 GMT -5
basil, my fathers step mother (i deuteri gynaika tou pappou mou) was a Vlach from Serres region.
She told me once that when she was a young girl she asked her father, because she heard her parents talking vlachika, why they speak another language and where they come from.
Her father answered her that they are Greeks, but their forefathers were from Romania.
Thats exactly what she told me. This means...the people (at least at this time, about 1938, lets assume she was ten when she asked him)had indeed a consciousness about their origins, and their connection to Romania.
Besides when I went to the second class at school there took place the football world cup in 1994...and I remember some school mates of me supported the romanian team...when I asked them why they do that...they said...of course we support the Romanians, they are our brothers. I didnt understand what they meant back then...but now I know....since those kids are Greek Vlachs.
I want the Greeks to be honest and realistic...these fairy tales of slavized, romanized and albanized Greeks make me furious...its Greek propaganda and I hate it because it does not represent the truth. Everyone has a right to know his real roots and the Greek state has not the right to dazzle them with such utopian theories.
Again Im not talking about the national consciousness everyone has...every Vlach, Slav or Arvanite has a right to call himself Greek, but he should also have the right to can openly talk about his non Greek origins and much more important..be aware of them.
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Post by Arxileas on Jul 20, 2008 7:59:46 GMT -5
Again Im not talking about the national consciousness everyone has...every Vlach, Slav or Arvanite has a right to call himself Greek, but he should also have the right to can openly talk about his non Greek origins and much more important..be aware of them. I fully agree with the underlined statemnet. Basil the Vlaches do indeed have a past Romanian connections, it is true. .
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 20, 2008 13:33:32 GMT -5
One sec guys... I'm against propaganda too... that is why I dont like what Romania used to do for many years. From the beggining of the Greek state... Romanians tried with a huge nationalistic propaganda to have access to a big Vlach population leaving near the Aegean Sea. Many are the victims of this propaganda... but many more are not. Romanian people... and pay attention... had NEVER physical contact with Vlachs. NEVER. It was a fairy tale story started from the comom Latin words in the language of both. It was a pure propaganda.. and that is why it stoped after some years.
By accepting that this tribe is from Romanian descent... we have to accept also that Inkas are Cretans. People with NO PHYSICAL CONTACT ever ... cannot be brothers. Thats crap. Some Roma in Greece came from sure from Romania.. but these people were in contact. Not the Vlachs.
And one more thing. I care less who is Greek and who is not.... but I dont like propaganda. I prefer Vlachs to say "we're not Greeks". Not the Romanians on their behalf. Many many years ago.. during the first American attempts to find minorities in Greece... their diplomats from the embassy of Athens visited the Vlachohoria. Among their first questions was "Greeks treat you well"... and the Vlachs start waving their "glitses" against the Americans and the diplomats left. Since then they had never dealed with this issue. Do you believe that if Americans had a clue about Vlachs not being Greeks.... wouldnt have manipulate it? We see them trying to find "Macedonian" minority among 3-4000 people. Do you believe they would have left 200,000 people like that?
Come on guys, dont be victims of their PAST propaganda.
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Post by atlantis on Jul 20, 2008 14:30:26 GMT -5
Guys, keep stronger each-other otherwise Albs will take over on Balkan-Pensinula... There is no state,Empire or culture not build up from propoganda
Nice thougts Kasta????How come??!!
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Post by jerryspringer on Jul 20, 2008 14:59:33 GMT -5
BasilMacedon, what do you mean when you say that Romanians never had physical contact with the Vlachs? What time period do you refer to and what would that prove, exactly? Scholars believe that the Vlach population started to split sometime in the 7th century, so even if the scattered population was disconnected from each other, doesn't mean they are not related to each other. There are aso different Vlach groups (not tribes, as you erroneously point out). The largest Vlach group, the Aromanians, which are in Grece, have been in diplomatical contact with the northern Vlachs (Romanians) since at at least the Middle Ages.
Basil, not only are you not informed of the history of the Vlachs, but I've also seen you make incorrect statements on the history of the ancient Greeks. Perhaps it would be better if you would observe the forum and accumulate more knowledge, before speaking out.
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