|
Post by Kastorianos on Jul 20, 2008 15:12:12 GMT -5
Basil, they speak actually the same language, like Arvanites and Albanians, they come from todays Romania originally, there has to be a connection. You dont speak in Greece by chance vlachika.
|
|
|
Post by panagiotopoulos on Jul 20, 2008 15:19:14 GMT -5
My family is from Romania way back when. I can assure that nobodies origins in my family are Romanian. They did however, use the Greek language with a Latin alphabet. Just thought I would throw that in there. Also I just thought I might point out that I do know some Romanians and not once have they considered my origins to be Romanian. Romania in past times was a major hub comprised of numerous different ethnicities living separate but together. The Gypsies also speak ROMANIAN ARE THEY NOW ETHNICALLY ROMANIAN AND EUROPEAN?
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Jul 20, 2008 15:22:28 GMT -5
panagiotopoule, did your forefathers speak vlachika?
Talking about gypsies...they usually speak additionally their mother tongue (romaness or what it is called, ask anittas for detailed infos). Besides if you live as a minority in a country of course you will also speak the countrys official language. My great grandparents from Asia Minor could speak perfectly turkish, but at home they spoke only Greek, this makes them Greek and not turkish.
|
|
|
Post by jerryspringer on Jul 20, 2008 15:38:06 GMT -5
Kastor, the Vlachs are considered to be natives to the Balkans are not only to Romania. The Vlachs that live in northern Greece and Albania have not migrated there from Romania. They are the romanized population of those lands.
|
|
|
Post by panagiotopoulos on Jul 21, 2008 0:42:41 GMT -5
panagiotopoule, did your forefathers speak vlachika? Talking about gypsies...they usually speak additionally their mother tongue (romaness or what it is called, ask anittas for detailed infos). Besides if you live as a minority in a country of course you will also speak the countrys official language. My great grandparents from Asia Minor could speak perfectly turkish, but at home they spoke only Greek, this makes them Greek and not turkish. To be honest with you, I have no clue if anyone spoke the vlach language. Is is the same with Romanian language?
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Jul 21, 2008 0:47:42 GMT -5
I think these people followed a similar line of migration from the central Balkans(central-south Serbia , southeastern Romania) that Albanian followed. There are a number of accounts talking about Albanians and Vlachs moving in a similar route towards the southern most Balkans.
|
|
|
Post by jerryspringer on Jul 21, 2008 1:31:48 GMT -5
I think these people followed a similar line of migration from the central Balkans(central-south Serbia , southeastern Romania) that Albanian followed. There are a number of accounts talking about Albanians and Vlachs moving in a similar route towards the southern most Balkans. Again, it depends on what Vlach group you're talking about. I've read the same about the Aromanians, but with so many theories floating around, it's hard to keep track on them. Nonetheless, the exonym of Vlach was used for a variety of romanized people inhabiting the Balkans. Some of them may be related to Romanians, some of them may not. The greatest controversy is on the origin of the Istro-Romanians, now living in Croatia; but since their numbers are puny, the question is not political related.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Jul 21, 2008 1:43:39 GMT -5
Istro-Romanians are completely different from the Aromuns. The Aromuns speak, where spoke, a dialect that is almost identical, whether in Albania or Greece.
|
|
|
Post by kartadolofonos on Jul 21, 2008 2:07:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jerryspringer on Jul 21, 2008 2:53:40 GMT -5
I don't know what that's supposed to mean, or why you're calling them for Aromuns; or why Karta is clapping his hands.
|
|
|
Post by diurpaneus on Jul 21, 2008 3:13:25 GMT -5
Istro-Romanians are completely different from the Aromuns. Scholars belive that they descend from shepherds who migrated from the Moti Land, Transsylvania, 600 years ago.
|
|
|
Post by jerryspringer on Jul 21, 2008 3:20:01 GMT -5
There is more than one theory for their origins. If you're going to speak of their origins, mention all theories. Not just the one that you like most.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Jul 21, 2008 5:09:14 GMT -5
Karta is applauding because he didnt understand it...he thinks Melty said, that Aromanian is a language similar to the Greek and Albanian one....I bet thats the way he understood it.....rofl.
I searched and read some things about the Aromanians. Their origins are indeed controversial, I thought since I was never concerned with this topic, the issue Vlachs would be as easy as the Arvanite and Slav one...talking for their origins.
So they could also be romanized Greeks, romanized Illyrians or Thrakians. The problem is this could make them a very ethnically/genetically mixed linguistic group already from the first day they existed, since being a vlach means being a romanized person....its not an ethnicity, not a people. Following this logic the Greek Vlachs could indeed not have any (genetic, cultural) connection to the Romanians.
On the other hand I know that the romanized Greeks and the romanized people of todays Romania can communicate with their languages and why is that possible, why do they speak a similar vulgar latin? I believe also here, genetic studies will be able to answer these questions.
|
|
|
Post by jerryspringer on Jul 21, 2008 5:19:48 GMT -5
Well, Romanians are said to be romanized Thracians (or Dacians), too. The controversy, which is political motivated, is whether it involved Thracians from north of Danube, or, south of Danube. Some Illyrians can indeed have been romanized, but it's not possible for the Greeks to have been romanized because the Greek culture had too great of an influence.
Haha!
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Jul 21, 2008 5:31:00 GMT -5
So where do the Greek Vlachs come from in your opinion? You wrote above the Aromanians didnt migrate from Romania...what are they?
|
|
|
Post by serban on Jul 21, 2008 6:01:42 GMT -5
Aromanian is a different language from Romanian. As a Romanian I can understand maybe just one half of what an Aromanian is saying. Aromanian is a daughter-language of Romanian, like Macedonian is the daughter of Bulgarian language. Anyway Aromanians from Romania speak a language heavily influenced by Romanian but even that is not commonly intelligible with Romanian. Aromanians from Greece use far more Greek words (like technical and scientifical words) than Aromanians from Romania.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Jul 21, 2008 6:06:45 GMT -5
yes ok that sounds logical, the arvanitika spoken in Epirus is also closer to albanian than the arvanitika of Peloponnes which is stronger influenced by Greek.
|
|
|
Post by jerryspringer on Jul 21, 2008 6:20:34 GMT -5
So where do the Greek Vlachs come from in your opinion? You wrote above the Aromanians didnt migrate from Romania...what are they? The most plausible theory states that they are romanized Thracians. Scholars believe that proto-Romanian split from Latin sometime in the 7th century. I'm not so sure about one's identity, but before that time, if you asked one of these people what they were, they would answer Roman; just like the Greeks would do, with the exception that the Greeks retained their language and culture. These people could move freely within the Roman Empire and it is possible that they moved around the region. Nothing would stop them from doing so.
|
|
|
Post by diurpaneus on Jul 21, 2008 8:18:39 GMT -5
The most plausible theory states that they are romanized Thracians. Scholars believe that proto-Romanian split from Latin sometime in the 7th century. The great slavic invasion of 602 into the Balkans split the Vlachs apart. I don`t want to sound like a nationalist, but I bet that if Slavs, Bulgars and other asiatic people never settled in the Balkans; from Bucovina to Macedonia and from the Black Sea to the Adriatic Sea there would be a big latiante state... something like France; they also have a lot of dialects, a frenchman speaking in the northern dialect from Normady can hardly be understood by a frenchman from around Marseille and vice-versa.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Jul 21, 2008 9:09:03 GMT -5
Jaja träum weiter... ;P
|
|