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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 18, 2008 17:23:06 GMT -5
Like I said, it takes very little to change things and for people to be alienated. Im not saying 90% will, but a good enough number. Those who arent completely lost that it. Alienation doesn't mean that you will take up Kalashnikovs and start a separatist campaign though. (Well except if you are psychopath aka a nationalist wacko). Usually alienated people end up in alcohol, football hooliganism and drugs.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 18, 2008 17:23:24 GMT -5
you should of have torn that miserable forsaken country apart already....whats taking you guys so long ?
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Post by Kastorianos on Jun 18, 2008 17:24:36 GMT -5
Toskali i think you often dont really mean what you say.....
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 18, 2008 17:41:25 GMT -5
There is no need nor wish for anything like that. Separatism is stupid. If that ever happened I would lose even more respect for those Albanians, thats hard though since I have very little for them already. Im talking about leaving, going somewhere else. Some other country. If enough pressure is applied, Albs here or there will simply look to move. Its not that hard, 90% of the Albs I know who have lived in Greece were incredibly happy that they left, others who I have spoken to in Saranda are waiting for their permanent move, when they will either open up something in Albania and stay there or will simply go abroad.
Truth is, I mean it more then the things I truly say.
You dont think that could happen if Alb politics turn pro-Macedonia. Even a number of Albanian high figures have come out and backed FYROM, such as Beqir Meta... More could come in the future and make open statements. Then watch Greek nationalists respond.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 18, 2008 17:47:04 GMT -5
albs unhappy in greece ? LOL ! who toskali ? the ones that couldnt cut it ? There are many more that actually make a decent life here. dont know why all the animosity against a country that provides a better life for your compatriots.
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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 18, 2008 17:47:13 GMT -5
There is no need nor wish for anything like that. Separatism is stupid. If that ever happened I would lose even more respect for those Albanians, thats hard though since I have very little for them already. Im talking about leaving, going somewhere else. Some other country. If enough pressure is applied, Albs here or there will simply look to move. Its not that hard, 90% of the Albs I know who have lived in Greece were incredibly happy that they left, others who I have spoken to in Saranda are waiting for their permanent move, when they will either open up something in Albania and stay there or will simply go abroad. Truth is, I mean it more then the things I truly say. People just dont want to admit it. Quite frankly Greece is the not the best place to come unless if you are desperate or if it is temporary. But most of them are here for years and leaving would not be the best choice if you take into account that they might already have property. To be honest I don't get what is your problem. They can stay in Greece, get the citizenship (the laws will change soon due to pressure) and not forget that they are Albanians like you in the USA.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 18, 2008 17:48:29 GMT -5
btw...they make better money than the average greek on basic monthly wage. They make over 800 euros a month...you tell them to turn it down and go somewhere else. They will laugh at you...
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Jun 18, 2008 17:49:07 GMT -5
I bet you don't know more than 10 Albs that lived in Greece and they were probably Greek hating Muslims.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 18, 2008 17:51:11 GMT -5
albs in skopia are pro greek...mega channel were doing interviews on the street.. They completely agree with us on our positions.
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 18, 2008 18:21:08 GMT -5
Oh please, an Alb, whether Christian or Muslim is still treated as an Alb and still feels like an Alb. In all scenarios, whether I was talking to a Kristo or Ahmet, their feelings will be the same. Mind you I have family from my mothers side who live in Athens, they themselves as half Greek and filled with Greek names, hell their surname is Pappa. This is a true story: when her two sons were smoking out of the balcony one night, someone called the police thinking that the two Alvanoi were smoking weed or something. Cops came and nearly ransacked the entire house. This is only one of many many other tales of horror her sons have pretty much put up with. This family in particular gained a visa to enter... so I wonder what the illegals face.
Your comments Canaris show how little you actually know of Albanians. Albanian Christians in the south Albania view Greeks no differently then the Muslims. You only have to spend a summer day on a beach in Saranda to get a feeling of what Albs think. Over-half of the population there has worked in Greece for some time, from the bar owners to the waiters.
Because think about how much this is damaging Albania. You only have to look at how cheap food from the EU is destroying Albanian self-reliance on produce. How much Albania is importing and building up a massive debt.
Greece is not going to be giving any citizenship to them anytime soon, they are a good toy for Greek diplomacy to control and bend Albania politically.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 18, 2008 18:32:56 GMT -5
your govt doesnt seem to mind though...
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Post by Arxileas on Jun 18, 2008 22:17:26 GMT -5
As migrant our self’s “Greeks”, we in Australia had to endure so much hatred and racism from the British colonisers “the Australians” I mean it was so bad that when as teenagers, we had to form Gangs to defend our selves. You new generation know nothing about human rights abuses, I mean this sentence “human rights abuses” has been so over exploited for political purposes that most of you don’t know what it means any more.
Australians are very bad to this day, known for throwing immigrants babies over board into the ocean, and if me or any of my family members here in Australia commit any serious crime we can be deported since we are still Greek citizens, despite having Australian citizenship. Same should apply for Albanians.
Illegals should go, and it's a European problem not just Greece.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jun 19, 2008 0:05:50 GMT -5
um...yea, you're quite wrong. Are you an immigrant without status or with insecure status? As long as you are a legal immigrant, of course you aren't hated Remember, you're an immigrant yourself in a country made up of immigrants. Greece from a country of emigration to a country of immigration a small country of 12 million unaccustomed to receiving large groups of albanian legal and illegal immigrants,the experience has had (and continues to have) profound economic,social and security Implications legal Albanian immigrants in Greece are treated much better. Only 20.000 albanian legal immigrants schould stay in Greece the rest schould go to Spain , France, Germany etc... greece should accept more philhellenic guest worker immigrants than worst Greek-haters .
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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 19, 2008 16:29:48 GMT -5
Because think about how much this is damaging Albania. You only have to look at how cheap food from the EU is destroying Albanian self-reliance on produce. How much Albania is importing and building up a massive debt. Greece is not going to be giving any citizenship to them anytime soon, they are a good toy for Greek diplomacy to control and bend Albania politically. Toskali, the era of "self-reliance" is long gone. There is no point in having total self-reliance. I haven't looked about Albanian's self-reliance as regards the agricultural products but there is no point in having self reliance Toskali. Self reliance was a policy which existed in a time when people still had the memories of the Second World War and the hunger and the danger of another world conflict appeared very real. But since the 80's (Round of Uruguay as far as I can remember, GATT is defunct now and been replaced by WTO) a gradual liberalization of the market has begun, which means less tarrifs on the cheap agricultural products of the developing countries. As I said I have not followed about Albania's economics structure but I know about a lot about the Common Agricultural Policy of the E.U. and I can tell you that "self-reliance" in food can be very costly. You should invest in the things that you have comparative/total advantage as a country and you will garner more income like that. Anyway the situation is difficult for the small countries but I am 100% sure that if Albania enters the European Union there will be a lot of progress in the institutional level (against corruption, more democratic control) and this is something very important to gather foreign investments. I know this at first hand because most of Greece's progressive institutional reforms were done precisely because of the pressure of the E.U. Otherwise we would still have feudalism (joking for the last one). And you said something about being tools. I don't see how exactly the Albanians here are tools of Greek diplomacy against Albania. And why not the other way around? And how about we stop seeing ourselves as the tools of the Governments aka the rich elites? Anyway, as for the citizenship, I think it will be done maximum in ten years, the society is positive on it, it's just the current administration doesn't want to lose it political advantage by allowing them to vote. Besides, if or when Albania enters the E.U. there will be no real need for it, as they would be citizens of the European Union.
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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 19, 2008 16:31:08 GMT -5
Jesus, I almost sound like a libertarian.
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Post by Toskaliku on Jun 19, 2008 23:24:19 GMT -5
This just what crap entities like the EU want, for you to lose any ability to stand on one leg so that you are tied to them and owe them everything. This is the problem. Countries that cant have a strong sense of self-reliance will wither away into mega-entities much like a corporation sucks in everything beneath it.
You should read the article on Bulgaria. All it will do is destroy the impoverished Albanian even more. Look at what has happened in Italy...
Bah, is that what you want for your country. To lose itself amidst a giant mega-entity that swallows everything hole? So Albs can gradually lose a sense of self? To recreate a Ottoman-like mindset?
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Jun 20, 2008 8:10:38 GMT -5
"Bah, is that what you want for your country. To lose itself amidst a giant mega-entity that swallows everything hole? So Albs can gradually lose a sense of self? To recreate a Ottoman-like mindset?"
THIS COMING FROM THE UNITED STATES IMMIGRANT. HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
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Post by Kassandros on Jun 21, 2008 14:16:21 GMT -5
Colpo Grosso "Besides, if or when Albania enters the E.U. there will be no real need for it, as they would be citizens of the European Union. " -------------------------------------------------------------- Albania IS inside EU. It got into "stin zoula" with Greece.. lol lol
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