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Post by atlantis on Apr 18, 2008 12:17:42 GMT -5
slow
I avoid to answer you above but sorry you need to study a little more... You saying Yugoslavia helped Albania communist party etc.....link hahaha All kids know CP of Yugoslavia was dreaming to make Albanian 7-th republic of Yugoslavia... greeks were scared of that too...
Albanians are not mention in the war against germans ...greeks corage etj. What about France Belgium Spain Italy Holland etj. Real Europeans why didn’t fight and show corage.... Only Russian Slavs, and all east orthodoxy influence show courage ....seeing Hitler as a dangers man of their existence...
Business is s.th in this way :you invest money to get more for your pocket and lucky Greece... Albania is beside. but as a personal opinion, I was more interested to work with north European businesses ...better than Balkan mentality....still not sure because I’m infected.... better my neighbor than somebody else
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Post by slowdent on Apr 19, 2008 18:05:24 GMT -5
atlantis
get a hold of yourself man. quit the ouzo man it can give you brain damage
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 23, 2008 19:16:07 GMT -5
Julius "O my god, that big cultural “thing” again. Yia sou Vasili koultouriari. U got a whole history to feed u with examples, of what happens when guys from different backgrounds come together. From Minor Asia refugees, to greek workers, to Albanians coming to Greece, and to muslims all over Europe. Be more openminded, friend.:" ------------------------------------------------------------ i just transfer the words of Mark Mazower... call him "Yia sou Mark koultouriari".. lol lol Tell him to be more openminded... Julius... I just transfer... why do you get upset? Afterall that is what the treat is about; Mark Mazower... and the Balkans
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Post by julius on May 7, 2008 17:29:56 GMT -5
@slow
Being a turk at that time meant changing religion. At the same time u were not greeks, were romios, or rajas. This is common knowledge. But changing religion didn’t mean not fighting Sultan when he didn’t have the same interest as some guys had at that time. For example, being muslim wasn’t enough for Ali pasha obeying the sultan. Actually he fought alongside with u, he raised greek revolution. In papers of Filiki Etairia he was called “the father in law” (coded name) Albs were called “the brothers in law”. When greek revolution started Rumeli was ruled by Ali pasha, Gegeria was ruled by Kara Mahmut Bushati and Egypt was ruled by Mehmet Ali. All three of them ALBANIANS. U didn’t have the luck to meet only one of them actually; Bushati pasha. And this was because he refused to fight against…hem greek revolution, for his own interest of course. After that Sultan tried to punish him. But of course u are very familiar to others two. Mighty Ibrahim of Navarino battle was the son of Mehmet Pasha. Even some sources support that the father of Qemal was Albanian. So not benders at all, we Albanians. RULERS.
More answers later.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on May 7, 2008 22:03:59 GMT -5
Yeah, I have also heard that Kemal was Jewish and Greek and Turkish, come on man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF. Your full of speculations that are founded in shit.
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Post by slowdent on May 8, 2008 0:16:52 GMT -5
julius
Some revolution starts in a place which is ruled by friendlies? Is there a need for revolution in this case? why is ali pasha considered one of the bloodier pashas of his time? when did he join the revolution? I mean support with $$$ arms or soldiers?
a true friend and ally of the Greeks
He was from south america? show me your source
so explain to me, from the whole ottoman empire of millions of people, how come you have turks and albanians in the high ranks. Why history does not mention any Greek pasha?
And answer one more question: the turks made all this empire and hired albanians to rule it?
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Post by julius on May 8, 2008 11:34:48 GMT -5
Some revolution starts in a place which is ruled by friendlies? Is there a need for revolution in this case? why is ali pasha considered one of the bloodier pashas of his time? when did he join the revolution? I mean support with $$$ arms or soldiers? ========= Your logic is so lame... Two out of three alb pashas acted aiming the revolution through their acts. I told u before about Bushati pasha who refused to obey the Sultan when he asked to bring his forces against the revolution. Greeks at the time were helped by Ali pasha too. I told u how Filikh Etairia called him. and the albanians. Also many men from his court took part in the later revolution like Marko Bocari for example. In order to raise a revolution u have to make allies. Ali was one of your allies at the time, no need to deny that. Even suliotes allied with him against sultan. The theories surrounding at the time were many. For example, Ali Farmaki and Kollokotroni agreed between them to make a greek-albanian kingdom. Read Kollokotroni's memories. Even forum members here agree that many albanians helped. Actually they were the only who could move freely through the empire and were used to guns, so they have a large part in that. About the bloodiest of them all...well it depends how u see it. The turks will say that Kollokotroni was bloodiest than him. The thing is, as supported by many sources, that common greeks and albs, muslims and christians were enjoying life under him. Thats how Janina raised to a region which was quiet and merchants could do their job. Leake even says that some dervish complained about the rights he had given to rajades. Kosmas the Etolian was a friend and protected by him, thats how he could feel free to preach. ==================== a true friend and ally of the Greeks ================== Turks feel the same once they saw him 50 miles from Adrianoupoli. Thats how they lost Egypt which until 1952 had an albanian dinasty ruling there. ============ He was from south america? show me your source ========== en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_R%C4%B1za_Efendi============== so explain to me, from the whole ottoman empire of millions of people, how come you have turks and albanians in the high ranks. Why history does not mention any Greek pasha? ======== who told u so? Have a look: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_Grand_ViziersVeli Mahmud Pasha (1st time) 1453 -1466 Greek Ottoman. This was the most interesting of all... The year Byzantine empire fell, Ottoman empire was ruled by a greek grand vizier. Actually, u brought them in the region by using turkish mercenaries. And have a look at this too: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragoman"The profession tended to be dominated by ethnic Greeks, including the first Ottoman Grand Dragoman Panayotis Nicosias, and Alexander Mavrocordato" And also, care to explain how come the greatest enemy of all greeks at the time was enjoying life next to the Patriarch? How was this possible? ============== And answer one more question: the turks made all this empire and hired albanians to rule it? ============ Ave o simplicity! Mostly, we ruled our region. Ottomans didn't discriminate anyone, as long as he declared himself muslim. While not being discriminated we showed what we could do.
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Post by slowdent on May 8, 2008 12:56:24 GMT -5
that sums it up. thank you for the discussion
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Post by julius on May 8, 2008 13:04:54 GMT -5
No not just yet. There are also some other points which need to clear up.
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Post by slowdent on May 8, 2008 13:48:03 GMT -5
as I said
thank you for the discussion.
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Post by julius on May 8, 2008 14:34:02 GMT -5
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Post by slowdent on May 8, 2008 15:05:57 GMT -5
============== Excellent uni researches usually are mentioned some place on the web. Please provide us with a link. If there is one. ===========
Keyword uni researches
ampempamplom blog. nice source. scientific one.
a book of mr margaritis: "The book definitely does not try to take a complete overview on the matters dealt with, after all these are articles from conventions whose participants usually had a minimum knowledge on these matters." complete and high class uni research. niiiice
nice. evidence based review.
That is the problem I see in you and all albos. you had all this time to look for good sources and you just pasted any sh1t that suited you. are these the high quality sources?
man you pasted a text that depicted Greeks as barbarians, wrote by a Greek that was ashamed for his groups behavior in Asia minor. what does Pamuk has to do with it and where is the similar text I asked you?
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Post by julius on May 8, 2008 15:45:42 GMT -5
pasted any sh1t that suited you. are these the high quality sources? ================== To gliko sto telos agapoula mou: dimitrisdoctor.blogspot.com/2008/03/blog-post.htmlI would like very much if u got the guts to go there at the blog and write something about this. ================== I have asked u already, WHAT DO U REALLY WANT? TWICE. I guessed u wanted a text from a turkish writer that does and feels the same about his compatriots. And a living example is Orhan Pamuk with his book about the armenian genocide. Now, are u so lame not to know anything about it? Or its not enough for u that book? I mean...are u for real? I give u GOD with a Nobel Prize in Literature and u are asking for Angels. what is wrong with u? Despite being greek of course.
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Post by Niklianos on May 8, 2008 18:02:24 GMT -5
Ali Pasha of Ioannina didn't do a single thing to help the Greek Revolution!
He assassinated a rival in Constantinople in 1820 and the Sultan ordered his deposition. He held himself up in the castle on the lake and he was later assassinated at the beginning of 1822(I believe in January).
Please Julius explain how Ali Pasha helped the Revolution?
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Post by Toskaliku on May 8, 2008 19:50:06 GMT -5
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Post by slowdent on May 9, 2008 2:05:04 GMT -5
==================
once again julius. This is a blog. Unrefereed. This dimitris doctor can be anyone. although he presents facts, his sources can be completely biased. and it is not my blog nor my role to write something about this. and it is irrelevant if I agree or disagree with this guy.
gia auto tha se afiso "me thn almira"
SOURCES NOT BLOGS that prove what you say. you claimed there are uni researches. show them.
you pasted a text. I asked you a similar text from a Turkish or albanian source. and after 2 weeks you come up with a writers name. Is that the best you can do?
His book is more than enough for the armenian genocide. And he created a lot of fuss around it. but read above. and this time READ and try to understand.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on May 9, 2008 11:00:35 GMT -5
Basil
There has never been a historical 'Geg' presence in Greece. All Albanians that settled Greece en masse, be it the ancestors of the Arvanites who came in the 14th or 15th centuries or other Albanians who came later on, spoke the Tosk dialect and were thus 'Tosks'. Not that it matters really ... but your attempt at kissing Tosk a*ss and appeal to their inexistant 'Greekness' which you camouflage with the notion of being 'civilised' is really pathetic.
And as for drunks and thieves; the Albanian nation has been providing your fata*ss country generations of fighting men, so for the sake of morality, be grateful and get rid of your hatred.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 9, 2008 11:49:05 GMT -5
First and foremost it's the Albanians who kiss Greek ass.... every time reaffirming in our presence how they love Greek and us and shaking our hands... and putting down Muslim Albs... we know this is a joke and a blatant lie in their feeble attempts to gain our trust..
Second of all, as for providing fighting men.... I refuse to believe that.... the only people they provided 'fighting men' like you put it.... is to the Turks..... so they would massacre villagers and do all that type of dirty work for them..since your kind was good at it...after all it was a job..and someone had to do it... it still goes on today... you can hire an Albanian in Athens to do anything your heart desires.... just check the local news.... you don't have to believe me... it goes on throughout Europe... although I have to add to that, Romanians are at the bottom of the list when it comes to doing crimes against others.... and having no second thoughts about stomping a life out.
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Post by Kassandros on May 9, 2008 14:55:35 GMT -5
Donnie" "Basil There has never been a historical 'Geg' presence in Greece. " ------------------------------------------------------------------ The book does not speak about mass presence. It speaks about men who were "invited" by Turkish authorities to suppress the local occupied citizens. That was the presence. For a certain period. Afterall Donnie... this kind of presence was often for Albanians in Greece. Just see the Nazis too... . They have "invited" Albanians guards too... If.. and I say if... someday a super power occupy Greece.. a very hypotherical sentence... I have the feeling that Albanians again will be the invited guards of the occupied population.. "Not that it matters really ... but your attempt at kissing Tosk a*ss and appeal to their inexistant 'Greekness' which you camouflage with the notion of being 'civilised' is really pathetic." ---------------------------------------------------- I can kiss a Greek a*ss like a Tosk's a*ss... after all is an a*ss kissing between the same blood.. lol lol lol Really now.. and try to answer once in your life fair; I'm I the only one see Tosks far more civilized nation than Geghs... with a tottal different culture..? What makes you believe that you and Tosks are the same thing? .. is it because today you live together in a country named Albania? "And as for drunks and thieves; the Albanian nation has been providing your fata*ss country generations of fighting men," ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah yeah I remember.. the Turkalvanous in the service of Ottomans and the Bali-Copetar Nazi soldiers in the service of Germans. I love your generocity when you provide men... lol lol Thank God.. at the end we kick them out together with the super powers of any time.* Remember that when you kiss the a*ss of Americans. I think I saw you dreaming when you were waiving the Albanian/American flag on TV... lol . I will destroy your dreams again.... "so for the sake of morality," ------------------------------------ Morality... and an Americanalbanian (new form of Turkalbanian speaking of it?? That was a good one.. lol lol "be grateful and get rid of your hatred. " ---------------------------------------------------- I could never hate a Dorian. Is flesh and blood. On the other hand.....a Turkish litter forgotten in Balkans..... is so easy..
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on May 9, 2008 16:10:57 GMT -5
Just like the Greeks, whenever opportunity is provided, will collaborate diligently with our foes and use their church to attempt the Hellenization of the Orthodox element in Albania ... not to mention poisoning all progressive intellectuals in order to supress our national identity.
1) The Tosks and Gegs aren't "nations", but speakers of dialects. I'm not an expert on modern Greek ... but the equivalent to ancient Greece would be Dorian vs Ioanian.
2) 'Totally' different culture? In which planet do you live? Granted there are some differences ... but then again, the same goes for Greece. Or would you argue that the Spartans and Athenians were two completely different nations/races due to their lifestyles being different? Is a Maniate/Cretan the same in mentality as a Pontian from Macedonia? No. Yet they're all Greeks. Likewise, we, Gegs and Tosks, are all Albanians because we speak Albanian and because we identify as Albanians. That is sufficient.
Just like Greece was kissing a*ss during the Ottoman period ... or when it kissed Western European a*ss to get access to the EU. The art of a*sskissing, if anything, was developed by you. We finally saw that it's fruitless to struggle without aid and learned the same lesson as you. Or would you argue that Navarino differed from what Nato did in 1999?
Of course, forgive me ... morality must have a different meaning to a pederast.
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