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Post by besiimadhi on Apr 14, 2008 14:23:22 GMT -5
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Post by bb681 on Apr 14, 2008 16:06:34 GMT -5
I cant say for sure but I would like to have one of these as decoration for my room, even if fake.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 14, 2008 16:28:40 GMT -5
Who are you?
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 14, 2008 17:01:13 GMT -5
I think its fake, it resembles too much the huge Athena Sculpture that stood in the Parthenon in ancient times.
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Post by leandros nikon on Apr 14, 2008 17:21:49 GMT -5
it's intact and that's smthing out of the ordinary...who really knows...some scientific procedure might be necessary,such as radiocarbon rating...
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Post by leandros nikon on Apr 14, 2008 17:23:55 GMT -5
what's all this dirt?why doesnt he clean it up???perhaps bcz it looks older this way???
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Post by Niklianos on Apr 14, 2008 19:23:40 GMT -5
In all honesty it may be real. There seems to be some small pieces chipped off in some areas away from corners. It seems to be around 30-35cm tall. That portrayal of Athena with the head dress and the shield was common place in Greece. I would have to see it in person to know if it authentic or a replica. I would like to know where it was found specifically and if it can be cleaned off? If that is just the state it was found and it's made of marble then there is no reason why it can't be cleaned with a mild detergent(Not a scrub pad!!). So my questions as a professional in Archaeology are: 1)Where did your friend find it specifically? 2)How did he find it? 3)Can your friend clean it and retake a photo? 4)Can I see a picture of the back of the statuette? Here is a pic of a Roman replica made Athens. From the site "in the Athena Varvakeion, small Roman replica of the Athena Parthenos by Phidias. Found in Athens near the Varvakeion school, hence the name. First half of the 3rd c. AD" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NAMA_Ath%C3%A9na_Varvakeion.jpgThe more I look at it the more I think it may not be a replica. Look at the design of the column with Nike Pallas on it and look at the chest decoration.(similar) There is a difference with the hair on the shoulders and the forehead piece of the helmet. Also the Nike Pallas is completely different. In the photo posted Nike seems to be holding an infant while in the replica she is not. Also the not on the dress just below the chest made with serpents is different as is the first section of layering below that. The column is also much closer to Athena in the pic posted. It appears that the specific sculpture of Athena was already in existence since ancient times. In order to verify I would have to see more photos from all vantage points and see the statuette cleaned.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 14, 2008 19:58:40 GMT -5
There is a law in Greece.... anything that comes out of the earth and is related to antiquity is the property of Greece. So fork it over to the right authorities .......
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Post by kartadolofonos on Apr 14, 2008 21:37:27 GMT -5
Statue of GrEEk Goddess Athena from (4th century BC). Athena Bronze statue found in Piraeus, 4th century BC National Museum, Athens
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Post by albquietman on Apr 14, 2008 23:29:31 GMT -5
I love ancient greek statues...I wish it was mine Only Niklianos can tell us if it's fake or not...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Apr 14, 2008 23:56:08 GMT -5
Niklianos, Can the snake on the shield give you any idea as to what that is? How about the little statuette? It's not Athens, nor Diana!
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Post by besiimadhi on Apr 15, 2008 11:02:35 GMT -5
In all honesty it may be real. There seems to be some small pieces chipped off in some areas away from corners. It seems to be around 30-35cm tall. That portrayal of Athena with the head dress and the shield was common place in Greece. I would have to see it in person to know if it authentic or a replica. I would like to know where it was found specifically and if it can be cleaned off? If that is just the state it was found and it's made of marble then there is no reason why it can't be cleaned with a mild detergent(Not a scrub pad!!). So my questions as a professional in Archaeology are: 1)Where did your friend find it specifically? 2)How did he find it? 3)Can your friend clean it and retake a photo? 4)Can I see a picture of the back of the statuette? Here is a pic of a Roman replica made Athens. From the site "in the Athena Varvakeion, small Roman replica of the Athena Parthenos by Phidias. Found in Athens near the Varvakeion school, hence the name. First half of the 3rd c. AD" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NAMA_Ath%C3%A9na_Varvakeion.jpgThe more I look at it the more I think it may not be a replica. Look at the design of the column with Nike Pallas on it and look at the chest decoration.(similar) There is a difference with the hair on the shoulders and the forehead piece of the helmet. Also the Nike Pallas is completely different. In the photo posted Nike seems to be holding an infant while in the replica she is not. Also the not on the dress just below the chest made with serpents is different as is the first section of layering below that. The column is also much closer to Athena in the pic posted. It appears that the specific sculpture of Athena was already in existence since ancient times. In order to verify I would have to see more photos from all vantage points and see the statuette cleaned. Very good remarks! You are also very right about the height, I would guess its around 35-40 cm. Actually he believes that it is made of ivory. And not cleaning it is because of being afraid not to damage it in any way. Here are photos from the side and back : img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10042008020nr3.jpgimg228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10042008023fw8.jpgIf it is not fake, it was found inside an ancient grave, in Trebeniste once part of ancient Macedonia. What about the inscription? That is why I thought it's a forgery. Does it say ATHINA or ATHENA and was the Greek alphabet almost the same as today at the time ? Was it common to write the name like that ? Also the statue has other engravements almost microscopic figures that are hard to get on photo. The intention is to return it to the authorities if its not fake and keep it if its a modern copy. I will see if he can wash it and take new photos, if it is indeed made of ivory is there any risk of damaging it ?
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Apr 15, 2008 11:31:13 GMT -5
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Post by Niklianos on Apr 15, 2008 22:38:59 GMT -5
Niklianos, Can the snake on the shield give you any idea as to what that is? How about the little statuette? It's not Athens, nor Diana! What about the snake on the shield? "Cecrops belongs to Pallas Athena not only in saga; he is also bound to her in cult. His tomb is alleged to have been located in the sanctuary of the Goddess on the Acropolis, which was named the Erechtheum after Erechtheus, another kingly worshipper of Athena who was born from the earth and later transformed into a serpent." www.goddess-athena.org/Athenaeum/Psychology/Athena/Mother_Mistress_and_Protectress.htmThe statuette in Athena's hand is the goddess Nike(Victory) Pallas(Goddess). The two go 'hand in hand' no pun intended. www.theoi.com/Daimon/Nike.html
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Post by Niklianos on Apr 15, 2008 22:53:00 GMT -5
In all honesty it may be real. There seems to be some small pieces chipped off in some areas away from corners. It seems to be around 30-35cm tall. That portrayal of Athena with the head dress and the shield was common place in Greece. I would have to see it in person to know if it authentic or a replica. I would like to know where it was found specifically and if it can be cleaned off? If that is just the state it was found and it's made of marble then there is no reason why it can't be cleaned with a mild detergent(Not a scrub pad!!). So my questions as a professional in Archaeology are: 1)Where did your friend find it specifically? 2)How did he find it? 3)Can your friend clean it and retake a photo? 4)Can I see a picture of the back of the statuette? Here is a pic of a Roman replica made Athens. From the site "in the Athena Varvakeion, small Roman replica of the Athena Parthenos by Phidias. Found in Athens near the Varvakeion school, hence the name. First half of the 3rd c. AD" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NAMA_Ath%C3%A9na_Varvakeion.jpgThe more I look at it the more I think it may not be a replica. Look at the design of the column with Nike Pallas on it and look at the chest decoration.(similar) There is a difference with the hair on the shoulders and the forehead piece of the helmet. Also the Nike Pallas is completely different. In the photo posted Nike seems to be holding an infant while in the replica she is not. Also the not on the dress just below the chest made with serpents is different as is the first section of layering below that. The column is also much closer to Athena in the pic posted. It appears that the specific sculpture of Athena was already in existence since ancient times. In order to verify I would have to see more photos from all vantage points and see the statuette cleaned. Very good remarks! You are also very right about the height, I would guess its around 35-40 cm. Actually he believes that it is made of ivory. And not cleaning it is because of being afraid not to damage it in any way. Here are photos from the side and back : img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10042008020nr3.jpgimg228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10042008023fw8.jpgIf it is not fake, it was found inside an ancient grave, in Trebeniste once part of ancient Macedonia. What about the inscription? That is why I thought it's a forgery. Does it say ATHINA or ATHENA and was the Greek alphabet almost the same as today at the time ? Was it common to write the name like that ? Also the statue has other engravements almost microscopic figures that are hard to get on photo. The intention is to return it to the authorities if its not fake and keep it if its a modern copy. I will see if he can wash it and take new photos, if it is indeed made of ivory is there any risk of damaging it ? Here is how to clean ivory(if it is, if it's marble just use mild detergent or a warm damp cloth). Athina as it is spelt is correct. If it is from Trebeniste then it is from an area which was within the area of Ancient Macedonia. The area which coincides with Ancient Macedonia in your country is the Ohrid area. If it was found there it very well may be authentic. Trebeniste area was heavily influenced by the Mycenaeans. There are funerary mask found there that are identical with that of the Mycenaeans. If there is any question whether or not it is authentic it would not hurt to contact the local archaeological authorities in your country so they can take a look at it. If it's fake then your friend can keep it, if not he is doing the right thing by turning it over to the Archaeologist so that it can be recorded and provenienced. It would be good if your friend could point out or record the exact location of the find so that Archaeologist can record the location of an Ancient Macedonian site and so it can be protected or even excavated.
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Post by atlantis on Apr 15, 2008 23:25:14 GMT -5
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Post by Niklianos on Apr 16, 2008 22:29:35 GMT -5
The Tale of the Eagle is an Albanian folk tale that explains how Albania and Albanians received their indigenous name: What are you discussing? The eagle is common in many cultures throughout the world and is not specific to one culture.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 16, 2008 22:37:55 GMT -5
Nik....at least he provides entertainment....
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Post by slowdent on Apr 17, 2008 1:36:07 GMT -5
atlantis i like your avatar pic.
is it from your passport?
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Post by atlantis on Apr 17, 2008 8:49:03 GMT -5
You’re derailing and high jacking of topics should end here.
First look what the topic is about, before you post please.
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