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Post by Kassandros on Mar 28, 2008 10:14:14 GMT -5
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 28, 2008 12:31:25 GMT -5
Basil... what I have noticed is a lot of these Albanians read books from authors that have lived or visited their areas..... and naturally they all had their opinions on what their eyes saw.... everyone of them had a different opinion on who's who and what was what.. and since Albanians were no where to be seen or heard before 1150.... all of these writings are from the time the Turks started coming into the Balkans.... some have sympathized with their plight.... and some had totally and completely distorted what they had seen.... for instance there were many Greeks living in their areas that spoke only Albanian... naturally these Greeks knew very well who they were... but these outsiders totally screwed up and described them as Albanians... and granted these guys today have point.... they read this crap and they believe it...why wouldn't they.... ?
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Post by atlantis on Mar 28, 2008 13:46:28 GMT -5
Who is that Bollano who says Gjergj (Kastioti)was called Jorgji as a greek......
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Post by ilirdardani on Mar 28, 2008 13:51:08 GMT -5
Why did they speak Albanian Kanaris if the Albanians where no where to be found until 1100+A.D. ?
How the hell were they able to come as you report, (after the serbians which came in 6th century) and yet they made the greeks speak Albanian?
Explain please.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 28, 2008 14:53:08 GMT -5
These people like Miaulis and Bubulina.... were born 400 -500 years after you guys decided to say 'present we are here"..we are talking about 1770 to 1840.... many Greeks, following the Ottoman invasion spread out into the northern areas to escape, they stayed there for hundreds of years... with you guys...a whole lot went to Italy.... . some lost their culture..... The Serbs were nomadic tribes that decided to invade the area... which they had a lot of success...but then the Greeks tamed them and gave them an alphabet and Religion... but this was a very early time..when no mention of Albanians existed and the Byzantine Empire was at it's peak....
When Albanians woke up from their coma... the Byzantine Empire was dead and buried ..... 80% of you decided to join the invasion and become one with the invaders...20 percent that was living among you , that were probably Italians and Greeks stayed on our side...
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Post by atlantis on Mar 28, 2008 20:00:00 GMT -5
Ok you much better than I thought ......but I wouldn’t say that.... You telling us ,greeks are people who escaped ....Albanian stay present ...but were in coma .... Well by the history experience people who stayed in Coma ....usually are the autochthon people or rich and cultural ones ... At the end of Byzantine Empire the first independent area was Despaotate of Epir.....collaborating with Anzhuins ....against the main church in Anatol.... After that we have nothing, no greek records of doing anything..... Now, Serbs were barbars and didn’t wait to be tamed but they owned the religion and spread it up to the north east..... the result was Moscow to far from you And when they understand they weren’t able to delete the Illyrian history choose a modern greek alphabet..... We did not join the invaders but we fought alone against them and we were the first who lost more than half of our population in the name of Christian- orthodoxy.... That’s a real fact. Albanians always were the rebels....
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Post by atlantis on Mar 28, 2008 20:11:14 GMT -5
At least you have to understand that ...Ottoman Empire was most of the Latin Idea in the beginning to stop the Slavs flux ....however they degenerated in new big occupiers in Latin’s territories ...
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 28, 2008 21:31:06 GMT -5
1453, Atlantis, 14533333...... WHERE WERE YOU???
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Post by julius on Mar 28, 2008 21:55:10 GMT -5
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Post by atlantis on Mar 28, 2008 23:06:51 GMT -5
Whatever you say is not important ..... Important fact is we won for 25 years with Gjergj Kastrioti leading by our flag with two heads ,which was meaning two heads over one body of the eagle (the real empire separated )and our people gave in common, their life without no doubt believing in their real origin and culture. Further, before that, we joined the Battle of Kosovo, against ottomans, showing the world a unbelievable courage and tolerance in the name of Christian-orthodoxy, being allies with our wild and worst enemy called Serbs ( no greeks were mentions during this time) Now tell me who was a real Christian-Orthodox ? Do not forget Gjergj Kastrioti was educated from Ottoman Empire but he got back to his blood and origin . Same thing did Ali Pasha approximately ....only he kept the religion but he restored Epir..... Same thing did Alexander anyway he got educated in a Greeks school..... Is much more connected on that..... Albanian blood has an old story and origin.....if there is no speculation .............. It’s a European duty to respect and appreciate our history ......otherwise we can not sleep well. However there is no threaten by Albanians nowadays, We never threat anyone in our history; we are just the protectors till the end of our lives. (sorry for my poor English but I was born and educated until last 3years in Albania ,learning only Albanology)
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 28, 2008 23:30:29 GMT -5
Are you talking about the ethnic civil war between Albanians and Turks? Blood brothers battling for power?
Italian is to Greek as Albanian is to Turkish.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 0:01:05 GMT -5
And if you knew anything the double headed eagle stands for the Roman Empire East and West. Armenians use it toooooooooo... You say it like it is your flag? No. That is not the case siptari.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 0:02:11 GMT -5
25 years victorious in battle against the TURKS? Thats it?
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Post by bordura on Mar 29, 2008 6:17:05 GMT -5
ufffffff... panaaaaa you are stuck to your beliefes and do not open up to at list trying at understanding what some other people here are trying to explain.
ottoman empire has left many influences all over parts of the world that one day was under here command. It has also altered to a degree every ethnicity from the natural path. so it has done any other large empire before and after. some ethnicities survived the long invasion and some disapeared. albanians and greeks luckily being on the surviving list. In the bloody line speaking we didn't get any higher influence then greeks did from them. it is no reason to believe the opposite. it is no facts to support that and visualy my neighboor greeks look little bit closer to them than albanians look, slightly darker and slightly shorter in average. religion was and is something that moves over the ethnicity and it is more superficial. to give you an example: greeks are greeks being them believers of Zeus or belivers of Jessus to me. but applying your claim that millet system (grouping of population under declared religion) altered albanian ethnos will be the same for greeks too. following your logic i can saythat you are not greeks because you do not belive today on Zeus. hence you are altered ethnicly and cince chrisitanity was born in orient you are oriental and not greek and europian!!!!
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 8:54:33 GMT -5
ufffffff... panaaaaa you are stuck to your beliefes and do not open up to at list trying at understanding what some other people here are trying to explain. ottoman empire has left many influences all over parts of the world that one day was under here command. It has also altered to a degree every ethnicity from the natural path. so it has done any other large empire before and after. some ethnicities survived the long invasion and some disapeared. albanians and greeks luckily being on the surviving list. In the bloody line speaking we didn't get any higher influence then greeks did from them. it is no reason to believe the opposite. it is no facts to support that and visualy my neighboor greeks look little bit closer to them than albanians look, slightly darker and slightly shorter in average. religion was and is something that moves over the ethnicity and it is more superficial. to give you an example: greeks are greeks being them believers of Zeus or belivers of Jessus to me. but applying your claim that millet system (grouping of population under declared religion) altered albanian ethnos will be the same for greeks too. following your logic i can saythat you are not greeks because you do not belive today on Zeus. hence you are altered ethnicly and cince chrisitanity was born in orient you are oriental and not greek and europian!!!! The Ottoman millet system not only affected Greeks but it affected Albanians as well. This is not something that I am denying. I am not a racist or have a negative feeling towards people with dark skin. Like I said before Greeks have assimilated all of the people who were culturally Greek and spoke Greek. What is the case with Albanians? Obviously they married in the Muslim millet. THIS HAD TO HAVE AN AFFECT AS WELL.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 9:17:55 GMT -5
Oh? Greeks look more middle eastern? Why does this Albanian look middle eastern?
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 9:28:47 GMT -5
Guess what ethnicity she is.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 9:36:06 GMT -5
I only point this out because using skin color as a way to identify what race someone is can be troublesome. You said that the Greeks are more middle eastern than Albanians. It is puzzling because just by doing a couple internet searches I was able to find a middle eastern person who is way lighter in skin and hair color than an Albanian.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 29, 2008 9:41:00 GMT -5
I find the Albanians to be very similar with Kurds ethnically. Kurds are known for having high instances of people with blond hair but also people who are very dark. I think that Albanians have many cases of this as well.
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Post by bordura on Mar 29, 2008 17:12:57 GMT -5
you are amazing in your aproach. you ask as if you dont know but when geting answers you act like you alredy know. in skin color example i used the key word AVERAGE so go back and read it. i wasnt talking for exeptons. I do not put any value on skin or anything like that. I took the example to explain you that if ethnicity is altered through marriages definitely you are more mixed then us as skin color tells. thats it to that example. maybe you have to read the definition of ethnicity so we all save time. We feel ethnicly albanian. what can we do to explain it to you. you have a big chunk of your population speaking and deriving from albanian roots but you say they are ethnicly greek. so do we inside albania feel ethnicly albanian. we were altered to what? From what to what? again our epos, myths, atitude, havent changed. You seam to repeat the greek way of clasifying people by placing religion as the main criteria in defining ethnicity. Muslim albanians (not muslim turks) statistically have a higher incidence of marrying each other. Orthodox albanians also. catholic albanians also repeat the same incidence. this does not exclude very comon practice in albania or interrmarying. as a mater of fact we do not even call it interrmariage. we marry albanian with albanian. I really do not know how to explain it. I'm muslim to your way of looking at the world. I in fact am not. anyway, if i look back to my girlfriends they were muslim, catholic and orthodox. and this is first time i went back and looking at the fact since is the last thing to thing of in albania when know someone. anyway it appears thatyou think turks were phisically in albania in numbers settlers and element of the society. It is not true they had garizons in main centers. they have their high administration present in main cities but not turkish population was ever registered or setled in albania. in contrary in greece they had a population exchange after the independence. Never was one in albania because was no turkish population beside soldiers in garisones under arms. go to tirana, durres, shkoder, korce, vlore, pogradec, fier, lezh, kukes, and find some turks. get out of your religion whirpool when thinking. even geneticaly we have slighter lower coincidence with turks that you. In everyday life it is nothing turkish. It is the way you percive us that it and not what we are and what we feel. in albania we use expresion: turk, turqni (turkizied) to note something ore someone considered old fashion, backward etc. we can call even a greek turk if he is block head and do not get the argument. If it was that we were altered in their influence more then you guys why in the hell we would use that expresion. you see we used to be ocupied from them like every other balkan nation. we got independence and got over it. you guys seam to be stuck in that even after 150 years maybe because you have border with them. i do not know for us turkey it is not a fact of life. it wasn't for the last 100 years and definitely not part of our conscience Now if we were altered as you claim (more then the rest) can i ask youthis questions: Do you think we were altered racialy(blood line genetics) more then you? Do you think we were altered ethnicly (cutoms, traditions, culture, folclor, songs, dances,) more then you? If you think we were altered in our conscience, can you tell us from what to what? as Arlin said: keep making pancake with thin air
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