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Post by Arxileas on Jan 7, 2008 20:27:20 GMT -5
TO FURTHER EXPOUND ON THE ILLYRIAN ALBANIAN ISSUE OF CULTURE & LINGUISTICS I WILL PROVIDE A QUOTE FROM YOUR OWN ALBANIAN SCHOLARS. THE FACT REMAINS UNTIL FURTHER EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED THAT THE CLOSEST TRUTH IS THAT THE ALBANIANS ENTERED THE BALKANS VIA THE CASPIAN SEA FROM ASIA AS HAS BEEN PROPOSED BY MANY HISTORIANS. There is an Illyrian myth, with which Albanian culture has been flirting for at least 150 years, and as a myth it can't be questioned (for it has all the answers). There is also a very tentative Illyrian science, based mainly on archaeology, and on some data transmitted by Ancient Greek and Latin Historians.
These inscriptions, being totally alien to Albanian, show that the Illyrian question is extremely complicated, and that it isn't likely to be resolved, unless fundamental epigraphic discoveries are made.
The great Illyrologist Hans Krahe himself was no supporter of the Illyrian theory about the origin of Albanians. In his late years he came to understand that most of his paleolinguistic theories were generally wrong. Krahe started by finding Illyrian traces everywhere in Europe, but then it was made clear that all he had found were Indo-European traces -- and nobody had any doubt that Indo-European tribes had been in Europe for a long many years.
Onomastics is of no great help in settling linguistic and ethnogenetic issues. Let's have a look at some important place names in Albanian territories, like Dajti, Shkodra, Durresi, Vlora, Burreli, Drini, Shkumbini, Tirana, etc. Are they Albanian? We can't say that, for there are no Albanian words that would explain them (as we explain, for example, Kruja with "krue" - fountain).
This might well be true, but seems pathetic in front of the fact that we can't explain through Albanian words the place names we currently use, let alone the Illyrian ones. So what?
Let's move up in time, and reach the Middle Ages. In the Middle Ages the Albanians were somewhere there, though their first mention is in the 11th century (or 12th, I'm not sure). Where were they living? Where are the places they have named after their common words (technically called appellatives)? The south is full -- literally full -- of Slavic place names, especially the areas of Vlora, Tepelena, Skrapar, Mallakaster, Gramsh, Cermenike, Moker, Korce, Erseke.
My personal opinion is that the issue of Albanians descending or not from Illyrians doesn't deserve the interest it has traditionally aroused. There is absolutely NO Illyrian cultural legacy among Albanians today. In a certain sense, Illyrians (with their less fortunate fellows, the Pelasgians) are a pure creation of Albanian romanticism.
Ardian Vebiu Albanian historian
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jan 7, 2008 21:14:55 GMT -5
Ajax
In ancient times the exist an (illyria) of the arvanites who was of hellenic stock. the romans destroy caucasia armeniaalbania and many of the caucasian armeniansalbanians come to ancient illyria in the balkan and mixed up with the local population of the ancient illyrians and adopted their language and the culture in albania exist two albanian ethnic group gegh came from caucasia armeniaalbania and the tosk the ancient illyrian arvanites.in albania, the limit between gheg and tosk is drawn by river shkumbin.it is very difficult today to said if the albanians are illyrians northern are present day turkalbanians and the southern are greekalbanians epirotes.
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 7, 2008 21:27:13 GMT -5
Ajax In ancient times the exist an (illyria) of the arvanites who was of hellenic stock. the romans destroy caucasia albania and many of the caucasian albanians come to ancient illyria in the balkan and mixed up with the local population of the ancient illyrians and adopted their language and the culture in albania exist two albanian ethnic group gegh came from caucasia albania and the tosk the ancient illyrian arvanites.in albania, the limit between gheg and tosk is drawn by river shkumbin.it is very difficult today to said if the albanians are illyrians or not since the the mixed in northern turkalbanians and in southern greekalbanians If any of that is true then you prove our case for giving Greeks their language, which makes all of you Albanian too. lolol No way around denying the truth Karta.
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 7, 2008 21:35:23 GMT -5
I have heard of the Arvanites being this case as you stated before, they are indeed Greek without a doubt.
There is a bigger problem for the Albanians from Illyrian connection. Illyrian is not the same as Albanian (otherwise the distinction Geg/Tosk would not exist).
Also Albanian was never an indo-european language (latin-based) rather than Greek. Thus the proposition that classical Greek words somehow derive from Albanian (a language that came AFTER Greek) is absolutely bizarre. Certainly things like "Poskte Greket" (half Turkish and half latin) don't help their cause!
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jan 7, 2008 21:39:49 GMT -5
lol....
caucasian albanian (shqiptar) have nothing to do with hellenic illyrian ( albanian ) !!
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Post by albanesehoney on Jan 7, 2008 22:03:50 GMT -5
lol.... caucasian albanian have nothing to do with illyrian ( albanian ) !! You said a mouthful... ;D ;D ;D
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on Jan 7, 2008 23:10:02 GMT -5
"Also Albanian was never an indo-european language (latin-based)"
Thats correct baby....Pelasgo-Etrusco lingo the aboriginals of our lands...our lingo is in your IE bcs you liked our Gods and legends .
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Post by albquietman on Jan 8, 2008 1:16:45 GMT -5
I have heard of the Arvanites being this case as you stated before, they are indeed Greek without a doubt. There is a bigger problem for the Albanians from Illyrian connection. Illyrian is not the same as Albanian (otherwise the distinction Geg/Tosk would not exist). Also Albanian was never an indo-european language (latin-based) rather than Greek. Thus the proposition that classical Greek words somehow derive from Albanian (a language that came AFTER Greek) is absolutely bizarre. Certainly things like "Poskte Greket" (half Turkish and half latin) don't help their cause! Geg and Tosk are the dialects of the same language, albanian, so you guys before you start posting your "historical conclusions" here, make sure to read a couple of sentences what the others have to say. As for albanian being or not an indo-europian language, has been long time now accepted that it is, so don't waste your time writing about it. From Encyclopedia Britannica: Indo-European language spoken in Albania and by smaller numbers of ethnic Albanians in other parts of the southern Balkans, along the east coast of Italy and in Sicily, in southern Greece, and in Germany, Sweden, the United States, Ukraine, and Belgium. Albanian is the only modern representative of a distinct branch of the Indo-European language family.www.britannica.com/eb/article-9109785/Albanian-languageNice pic albhoney...
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Post by jerryspringer on Jan 8, 2008 1:57:32 GMT -5
Those people who make such claims should attempt to explain the linguistic relation between Albanian and Romanian, where we both share words that can be found exclusively in our languages. I also hear that Albanian contains some Greek words from ancient Greek. Care to explain that, also?
Romanian scholars, who made modest research into the matter in order to compare Albanian with Romanian, also concluded that Albanians hail from Illyrians. There is little controversary there. The problem comes when you try to explain what went wrong, but that's a different subject.
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 8, 2008 3:03:17 GMT -5
As for albanian being or not an indo-europian language, has been long time now accepted that it is, so don't waste your time writing about it. Let's examine shall we. Firstly I stated """Also Albanian was never an indo-european language""" and not what is spoken today. Changes everything doesn't it when re-worded Geg is used in the north and tosk is used in the south of Albania. The difference between them is enourmous. Two persons, one from far north and one from far south will hardly understand each other. The tosk language is more similar to the literary language and thus it is easier to be understood by most of the Albanian speaking persons. BUT the difference between them is enormous = different dialects.
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 8, 2008 3:08:44 GMT -5
Bahahaha am teaching them their own history That's what Communists do to the populace they oppress whilst they are in power
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 8, 2008 3:12:23 GMT -5
Because no dialect should exist within Albanian language THEREFORE there is not connection with Illyrians....Very interesting! If this is the case, well, sorry, Albanian EXISTS within 2 dialects. Can't help it...because it follows all linguistic rules! As all languages all over the world! What doeas that mean? That Abanian was Latin Based? Or Indo-European was latin-based? (neither stands anyway) But if Albanian was Greek and Greek was Albanian, then also Greek would not be indo-European (according to this "pseudo-scholar" who wrote this)! Further more, this person forget to use the term "affinities" with Greek (and in such argument nothing can be taken apriori and as a definite answer); this is a very serious mistake! Who serious scholar made the clame of DERIVATION of Greek from Albanian? Whom is he/she speaking with?? And of course, this scholar has taken these phrazes to make his linguistic analysis as to Albanian not being an Indo-European!!!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 8, 2008 3:16:05 GMT -5
That's true! The linguistic relations between PROTO-Romanian and OLD Albanian are very evident. Also words from OLD Greek (Homeric) and New Greek! By Ajax: I speak and understand perfectly both dialects!!! No problem. But at least Albanians have only two. How many dialects are in Greece?
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 8, 2008 3:23:00 GMT -5
Read my lips...There is no existing Illyrian language in order to compare with any other countries languages. Meaning no evidence no proof "NIL, NADA or some say NOTHINGl"
A few of your own Historians do not back up your claims, tell me something. Isn't Ardian Vebiu - Albanian historian correct when he states:
This might well be true, but seems pathetic in front of the fact that we can't explain through Albanian words the place names we currently use, let alone the Illyrian ones.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jan 8, 2008 3:23:35 GMT -5
more caucasus/Semitic than greeks you can't find in Europe...dont mess with Albanian Blood go back in your semitico-armenian blood.
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 8, 2008 3:25:33 GMT -5
That's true! The linguistic relations between PROTO-Romanian and OLD Albanian are very evident. Also words from OLD Greek (Homeric) and New Greek! By Ajax: I speak and understand perfectly both dialects!!! No problem. But at least Albanians have only two. How many dialects are in Greece? We don't deny, try telling this to albquietman. Am afraid your here to boost that bruised ego of your's. Ciao.
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Post by Kefalus on Jan 8, 2008 3:31:51 GMT -5
Those people who make such claims should attempt to explain the linguistic relation between Albanian and Romanian, where we both share words that can be found exclusively in our languages. I also hear that Albanian contains some Greek words from ancient Greek. Care to explain that, also? Romanian scholars, who made modest research into the matter in order to compare Albanian with Romanian, also concluded that Albanians hail from Illyrians. There is little controversary there. The problem comes when you try to explain what went wrong, but that's a different subject. True. I agree.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jan 8, 2008 3:34:56 GMT -5
This is not a proof either...I would say is even worse! Having no proof proves nothing!!! Or prooves all (I could also say: since there is no Illyrian language to compare with Albanian, then is YOU who cannot say there is no conncection with certainty! Of course! If not through Old Albanian and phonetical changes as to compare!!! Adrian pretends to make studies taking Albanian words as they are today! That's why no scholar takes him seriously!
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rex362
Senior Moderator
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Post by rex362 on Jan 8, 2008 10:45:36 GMT -5
Test:
Kju Ajaxi esht i goditur ne koket me qorapet te palara.
ok ..did all you other Albanian dialected people understand me ?
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Post by jerryspringer on Jan 8, 2008 14:31:42 GMT -5
Ajax seems as a frustated individual who takes out his insecurity on other people. Ajex, get real man. You know crap about linguistic research. You read a couple of articles and think you know it all. I guess no one told you that linguists can research into the matter by comparing words with words from other languages. In this case, they have some dozen words that only Romanian and Albanian share in common, which is enough proof that the population was in contact during the ancient ages.
If you want to look for a population that came from Asia during the Bronze Age, you need to look no further. Just go and look in the mirror.
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