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Post by greekslav on Dec 28, 2007 2:50:33 GMT -5
greekslav...from now on i give u a greek name...it will be ephialtes...very proper name for you,isnt that so? If you wish, but I do not deserve to be named after a great Greek such as Ephialtes.
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Post by leandros nikon on Dec 28, 2007 10:00:52 GMT -5
a great Greek such as Ephialtes???
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 28, 2007 11:28:45 GMT -5
Efialtis go from these boards at once, you monster.
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Post by greekslav on Dec 28, 2007 13:51:42 GMT -5
greekslav...from now on i give u a greek name...it will be ephialtes...very proper name for you,isnt that so? You do not know of Ephialtes, the ancient Athenian politician and an early leader of the democratic movement in Athens in the 460's BC? Please tell me you do, for your own sake as a Greek! I do not speak of the son of Eurydemus. If you are, then you and I have nothing else to talk about. G'day, bloke.
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Post by slvsdied4you on Dec 28, 2007 13:56:05 GMT -5
Hello
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Post by greekslav on Dec 28, 2007 14:08:54 GMT -5
greekslav...from now on i give u a greek name...it will be ephialtes...very proper name for you,isnt that so? So be it, Leandros. I will be known as "General Ephialtes", son of Sophonides. It is done.
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Post by Niklianos on Dec 28, 2007 18:50:58 GMT -5
What I would like to know is, SINCE WHEN is Tunisia Sub-Saharan?? Just as with the Arnaiz-Villena "Study" the findings have absolutely no support from Historical and Archaeological records. Heres more cr*p from Villena continuing on the same "Assumptions" based on on allele. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12392505?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus Arnaiz-Villena A, Gomez-Casado E, Martinez-Laso J. Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es HLA genes allele distribution has been studied in Mediterranean and sub-Saharan populations. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, neighbour-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The population genetic relationships have been compared with the history of the classical populations living in the area. A revision of the historic postulates would have to be undertaken, particularly in the cases when genetics and history are overtly discordant. HLA genomics shows that: 1) Greeks share an important part of their genetic pool with sub-Saharan Africans (Ethiopians and west Africans) also supported by Chr 7 Markers. The gene flow from Black Africa to Greece may have occurred in Pharaonic times or when Saharan people emigrated after the present hyperarid conditions were established (5000 years B.C.). 2) Turks (Anatolians) do not significantly differ from other Mediterraneans, indicating that while the Asians Turks carried out an invasion with cultural significance (language), it is not genetically detectable. 3) Kurds and Armenians are genetically very close to Turks and other Middle East populations. 4) There is no HLA genetic trace of the so called Aryan invasion, which has only been defined on doubtful linguistic bases. 5) Iberians, including Basques, are related to north-African Berbers. 6) Present-day Algerian and Moroccan urban and country people show an indistinguishable Berber HLA profile. PMID: 12392505 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] More of the same cr*p extrapolating even further on the Greek to Sub-Saharan connection. Once again entirely based on faulty science and no basis of support from history and archaeology. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11543906?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlusThe correlation between languages and genes: the Usko-Mediterranean peoples. Arnaiz-Villena A, Martinez-Laso J, Alonso-Garciá J. Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, 28041, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es The usko-Mediterraneans peoples are defined as ancient and present day populations that have lived in the Mediterranean/Middle-East/Caucasus area and have spoken a Basque related language. The present day existing populations show an HLA genetic relatedness which is more or less close according to geographical distance. The Greek sample is an outlying in all genetic analyses, because Greeks have a significant genetic input from sub-Saharan Ethiopians and Blacks. This probably occurred in Pharaonic times. Present day comparisons between genes and languages show a lack of correlation: Macedonian, Palestinians, Kurds, part of Berbers, Armenians, and Turks belong to the old Mediterranean substratum, but they do not speak a language included in the old Mediterranean Dene-Caucasian group. This is due to an "elite"-imposed culture and language. Other ethnic groups speak an "old Mediterranean language" or "usko-Mediterranean language" modified by Roman Latin (i.e., Spanish, Italians), or by other not fully explained processes (Jews). Therefore, the correlation between genes and languages may exist at a macrogeographical level, but not when more precise microgeographical studies are done, as shown in the present "usko-Mediterranean" peoples model. PMID: 11543906 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] This dribble should be totally removed from all scientific journals and any serious scientific websites!
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Post by greekslav on Dec 29, 2007 2:48:06 GMT -5
Nikilianos, all I did was show those that wanted to see other scientists that had done research in this field and particular topic, other than Arnaiz-Villena. I have shown them, and provided links. That is all I did. Yet, Arnaiz-Villena returns to the conversation when no one wants to speak of his work.
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 29, 2007 10:56:05 GMT -5
Ephialtis, Please be polite to our Greek forum members and please don't try and speak for everyone else in these boards. I began this thread and I am still interested in this Villena guy. Thank you and best regards.
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Post by greekslav on Dec 29, 2007 11:12:02 GMT -5
I have the utmost respect for everyone. But isn't it true that some had asked not to speak of this scientist again:
Arnaiz was ridiculed by real scientists more than once...dont mention him again...the study of dr sforza cappeli-or smthing like this-was published in nature magazine and arnaiz but was kicked hard...
Please direct your request at those that do not want to speak of him. I only respected this request and provided additional information on this research by different scientists.
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Post by Georgios Kastriotis on Dec 29, 2007 12:44:42 GMT -5
go away
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Post by greekslav on Dec 30, 2007 0:15:42 GMT -5
You are right. The findings has nothing to do, and WILL have nothing to do with historical and archaeological records.
Due to human migration over hundreds to thousands of years, ones genetic makeup may not necessarily coincide with ones history, culture and language.
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 30, 2007 0:40:21 GMT -5
Yes and all the studies you support further prove your connection with Slavs mainly being Bulgarians. What your studies prove is that Greeks are native to the Mediterranean. A race without the genetics similar with Greeks would be proven to not be native to the southern Balkans. What puzzles me is how Slavs of Fyrom try to use these studies to prove that Greeks are not native to GREECE. What do these studies prove? How do they prove that Slavs of Fyrom are Macedonians and Greeks are not? They do not prove that at all.
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Post by greekslav on Dec 30, 2007 1:16:37 GMT -5
Please read all posts I made to this thread. I never made any post supporting these studies. I merely provided additional scientists that did this specific research, since most here wanted to see this and did not want Villena mentioned again. Matter-of-fact, I made no remark one way or another supporting these studies specific to the Mediterranean peoples.
Please, what was this all about? How did you come to this conclusion from this thread? Good ganja or maybe magic mushrooms? ;D
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Post by greekslav on Dec 30, 2007 1:40:38 GMT -5
Okay, let's cut to the chase. Will we have a meaningful discussion on this topic? Yes or no?
I would like to continue this topic of extreme interest. But we must all throw away demeaning remarks to each other. There are facts concerning this issue that no one can rebut. But everyone has opinions. When opinions are exposed, discussion and debate results. Not accusations and insults. Knock it off, people. Show us all how great we Greeks are by the excellent way we can debate and discuss, LIKE OUR FOREFATHERS DID!
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 30, 2007 1:58:39 GMT -5
The most reliable genetic studies done are from these renowned world leading geneticists such as;
Neil Risch of Stanford University, Alberto Piazza University of Torino and L.L Cavilli Sforza of Stanford University, some of many researchers of the Stanford and Pavia / Italy also by another 7 big researchers of European and American scientists and not to mention how many more from Moscow? oh yes there were 150 scientists from the University and academia of Moscow including “Dr. Tacaver” Professor of ethnography from the University of Moscow. Whose works were published and accepted by world wide academia.
Here is a youtube;
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Post by greekslav on Dec 30, 2007 11:14:37 GMT -5
I do not doubt that. But this recent study that I posted done by Hajjej, Hmida, Kaabi, Dridi, Jridi, El Gaa, and Boukef K were published in official medical journals and their results are referenced.
This recent study suggests and confirms another study that there is a relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharan populations. This probably occurred during ancient times but we do not know why or how. But since the distance between the Sub-saharans and Greeks is small (compared to others), then indeed, a connection is suggested.
The negative response to this study indicates that there is suppose to be a model that shows exactly what Greek genetic material should look like or what it consists of, and that this study goes againest that model. Where is this model? How can we say Greek genetics should be a certain way? With the vast human migration over millenia, I do not believe developing a percise model of Greek genetics is possible.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 30, 2007 13:30:14 GMT -5
How could it suggest and confirm at the same time....?
It's funny to read some of the comments here made by some.... for instance some Albs say.. they were the ancient Greeks... we came later.... and when studies like these come out.... they quickly distance themselves from those comments previously made... the same goes for ALexander the Great..when some homo hollywood director made the movie depicting him as gay...they quickly made fun of him and again distanced themselves from him... how funny they go where the 'fat' is.... bunch of clowns.. it's terrible when you look behind you and their's no footsteps.....
Last summer I visited the Museum of Archeology in Athens, I also visited numerous other ancient monuments ..never did I see any negroid features on any of those ancient statues..... possibly the only negroid feature Greeks have is under their pants..... ;D
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Post by Arxileas on Dec 30, 2007 15:56:11 GMT -5
Genetics and linguistic - cultural identity is not one and the same thing. That's self-evident.
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Post by greekslav on Dec 31, 2007 0:05:15 GMT -5
That's right, Kanaris. I did not ever see any negroid features in any ancient Greek statues. But having Sub-saharan genetics or a gene very close to it does not imply that we would look like we were from Africa.
It only speaks of human migration and many other factors that may have caused Greeks to supposedly have these genes. It does not mean that we are from there.
There was a lucrative slave trade in the Mediterranean in ancient times that could of caused this. But it is only a guess.
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