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Post by alabama on Nov 26, 2007 13:30:57 GMT -5
Hey folks, just wanted to post this to let you know about a very interesting news. Did you know that there are no TURKS in Turkey? you think it is funny, or interesting? The thesis of Turkization of Anatolians suggest that there are no Turks in Turkey. Here are the facts: '''1. City names:''' The city names in Turkey show that their roots come from Greeks, Hittites, and many other old Anatolian society's culture and language. This was changed after the Turk's invasion of Anatolia. ANADOLU: Greek; Anatole (meaning: the place where the sun rises) Adana: Hittite; Uru Adania, Afyon: Luvice; Hapanova (meaning High hill) Aksaray: The King of Cappadocia Archelaos's name Amasya: Hittite; Amaseia - Amesis's name (the princess who built the city) Ankara: Hittite; Angora (meaning farmer's city) Antalya: Greek (Likce); Attaleia (King Attalos’ name who built the city), Antakya: Greek; Antiohia, Aydin: Greek; Anthea, (meaning flower), Bakirköy: Greek; Makri Hori (meaning Long village), Balikesir: Greek; Paleo Kastro (“Old Castle”, originally Luvice), Bartin: Greek; Parthenios (meaning Virgin), Bolu: Bithinis; Claudio Poli (Claudio City), Bursa: Bithinis: Prussa (Bithinis King Prusias’name), Çanakkale: Greek; Troas, Çankiri: Galatean; Gangrea, (meaning: a city where there are many lambs), Çorum: Hattian; Hattusa, Denizli: Laodikeia, King of Syria II. Antiokhosun's wife's name: Laodike, Edirne: Greek; Hadrianapolis (Rome Emperor Hadrianus’ name), Efes: Greek; Efesos, Eskisehir: Phrygian; Dorlion, Giresun: Greek; Kerasunda (Kirazlik), Gümüshane: Greek; Argyropolis (Argyros: gümüs(silver), Polis: kent (city), Isparta: Hittite; Baride, Iskenderun: Greek; Alexandretta, Izmir: Luvice; Mirina, Ionia: Smirina, Izmit: Bithinis, Nikomidia, Karabük: Hittite; Haluna, Kastamonu: Greek; Kastromoni, Kayseri: Hittite; Mazaka, Latin; Kaisareia, Kirklareli: Greek; Saranta Eklesias (meaning 40 Churches), Konya: Phrygian; Kavania, Greek; Ikonion, Kütahya: Phrygian; Kotiaeon, Manisa: Lidian; Magnisia, Malatya: Hittite; Maldia, Maras: Hittite; Maraj (Hittite general's name Maraj), Mugla: Karcian; Karya, Nevsehir: Hittite; Nissa, Nigde: Hittite; Nakita, Ordu: Greek; Kotioro, Rize: Greek; Rizi, Sakarya: Phrygian; Sangari, Samsun: Ionian; Amisos, Sinop: Hittite; Sinova, Sivas: Greek; Sebastia, Tarsus: Luvician; Tarsa, Tekirdag: Greek; Bisanthe, Trabzon: Greek; Trapezus, Trakya: Trakian; Thraki, Usak: Phrygian; Temenothyrea, According to Islamic sources in Turkey; Anatolia used to be called “Diyar al-Rum” or “Bilad al-Rum” (Rum means Greek in Turkish and Diyar means Land in Turkish) Furthermore, looking at the oldest sport team names: Fenerbahçe: Fener: Greek; Fanari, Galatasaray: Galata: Greek; Galatas Trabzonspor: Greek; Trapezus All the current names of the villages, towns and cities in Turkey were changed and Islamizied during the republican years of Turkey. All these current names have only 90 years of history. Then, where are all these people (Greek, Luvician, Galatians, Hittitians, Phrygians and so on) in Turkey if everybody is considered as Turks according to the Turkish constitution?. The population of these ethnic people are over 35 million according to the Greek sources. Then do they still exist in Turkey? In 1924, deportations of Greeks and Armenians were only 1,5 million. Then where are the other ones? The army of Diyojen's were only about 200 thousand when they attacked Malazgirt in 1071. During those times the population in Anatolia was several millions. Considering the deaths because of sickness, deseases or other natural damages, we still cannot say that there were only 1,5 million Greeks in Turkey after 900 years. '''2. Genetic Science:''' According to a research, there are almost no Turks in Turkey. The number is about 9%. med.stanford.edu/profiles/frdActionServlet?choiceId=showPublication&pubid=14897&fid=3792 and hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/HG_2004_v114_p127-148 .pdf According to the research: "The Turkish and Azeri populations are aty***al among Altaic speakers (Table 1) in having low frequencies of M130, M48, M45, and M17 haplotypes. Rather, these two Turkic-speaking groups seem to be closer to populations from the Middle East and Caucasus, characterized by high frequencies of M96- and/or M89-related haplotypes. This finding is consistent with a model in which the Turkic languages, originating in the Altai-Sayan region of Central Asia and northwestern Mongolia (31), were imposed on the Caucasian and Anatolian peoples with relatively little genetic admixture. ANOTHER POSSIBLE EXAMPLE OF ELITE DOMINANCE-DRIVEN LINGUISTIC REPLACEMENT". if you think it is interesting i will post you more info about the event.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Nov 26, 2007 19:22:28 GMT -5
The dissapearance of indigenous Anatolian nations such as the Phrygians and Hittites predate Turkish arrival with millenias. They weren't assimilated some decades ago; their language and identity were lost (atleast in the case of the Hittites) before Christ's birth.
Infact, before the 'Turkization' of Anatolia, there was a Hellenization. This began with the colonization of the Eastern shores of the Aegean Sea. Then, with the advance of Alexander the Great and the entry of an era of Hellenism, Greek speech pervaded much of the Oriental world.
The assimilation of other ethnic elements into the Turkish ethnos is, however, another subject.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Nov 26, 2007 19:52:54 GMT -5
'Albanization' would imply that we assimilated local Slavs. That isn't the case. The Kosovar Albanians descend from Albanian highlanders of Northern Albania. Historical documents confirm this.
P:s Why change the topic with such a fowl tone in your voice? Didn't you yourself say that the Greeks of Asia were only 'Hellenized'?
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Post by depletedreasons on Nov 27, 2007 2:33:47 GMT -5
Helenization was ended with the rise of the Roman Empire. Then the era of Romanization started. In fact, the forefathers of the modern Greeks used to call them selves as the "Rums" until the 19th Century. As you know, the rest is as complicated as the Hollywood scenarios written on history. ;D ;D ;D Finally, I would provide you with two different DNA findings from Italy and Mongolia, I am sure you would like the conclusions. One from Italy:In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations. These admixture estimates are not to be taken at their face value, for numerous assumptions underlie their estimation. Here they only serve to show that, with respect to modern Italian gene pools, the Etruscan one contains an excess of haplotypes suggesting evolutionary ties with the populations of the southern and eastern Mediterranean shores.www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1181945One from Mongolia: Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. This supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period. www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.shtml
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Post by alabama on Nov 27, 2007 7:17:34 GMT -5
One from Italy:In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations. These admixture estimates are not to be taken at their face value, for numerous assumptions underlie their estimation. Here they only serve to show that, with respect to modern Italian gene pools, the Etruscan one contains an excess of haplotypes suggesting evolutionary ties with the populations of the southern and eastern Mediterranean shores.www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1181945 They still use the word Turkish to be correct at this century, that's why they use the word Turkish. But there are no decendants or Turk culture exist in Turkey. You are caught up with that misunderstanding as well. Europeans academics started to call Turkey as Turcia by the 12th century, because of Turks attacks and killings. This word was also connected to being muslim. So instead of calling anatolia as muslims they would call every muslims as Turks. 3. CULTURE: Today every single existing culture on Anatolia soils (efe games, Zeybek, Horon, Ciftetelli, Halay etc.) do have '0' connection with Central Asia and their cultures. If all the western of Turkey were Turks, then where are those Central Asian cultures? The Turkish culture you think is a culture mixed with Greek, and Arab culture. Here are some of the Turkized cultures but in fact, they were Greek: Zeybek=Zeibekikos, Horon Horos, Hora Horos, Efe Ephesus, Mastika, İskambil Skambili, Kuka Kuka, Kukla, Tavla Tavli Music, Clothing, Food, Games, and Life Styles: Turkish art music is in fact Byzantium music. The instruments are the same as well as the lyrical assets. For example, they call it 'Turk musikisi', in fact 'musiki' word is a Greek word. Everything is the same but the name is transformed and called as 'Turkish' The clothing, and dresses used in Anatolia have no similarities with Central Asia's dress codes. They are very different to each other. The villagers in Aegean region in 'Turkey' still dress the same as Greek villagers in this century. The ways the villages look are the same as well. Check out Izmir, Bodrum, Mugla etc. you will see how they are prototype of Greek culture. If you have, a chance to go to a Greek restaurant you will feel like you are in a 'Turkish' restaurant. The same thing applies for food as well. Zeytinyagli (Olive-buttered) food types in Ottoman kitchen were completely coming from Byzantine kitchen. Almost all the food, drinks, fruit names, and fish names are Greek in 'Turkey'. Aegean, Mediterranean, and Black Sea regions' all foods codes are in fact old Anatolian food types. Today, the traditions of a Turk in Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan have no similarities with a 'Turk' in Turkey. For example, there is a culture of horse riding in Central Asia as well as tightrope standing but none of these exists in Anatolia. Today all the public games played in Anatolia's east, west, north, and south are the descendants from old Anatolian games. None of them exists in Central Asia. For example, check this out, and a Greek will tell you what actually it is. Anatolians are no Turks in terms of culture because no culture and traditions that they have are from Central Asia. If Turkey had 'Turks' inside then we would see Central Asian cultures, traditions, foods, etc. 4. LANGUAGE: The Greek words in 'Turkish' are incredibly high! However, almost all of the daily used words in Turkish come from Greek. Their roots belong Greek as well. Here is the proof. Foods and drinks: Ahtapot Htapodi, Bulgur Bligouri, Çiroz Tsiros, Çipura Tsipura, Çinokop Tsanokopi, Çörek Tsoureki, Ihlamur Flamouri, Izgara Skara, Hamsi Hamsini, İspinoz Spinos, İstakoz Astakos, İstavrit Stavritis, İstridye Stridi, Iskorpit Skorpios, İspendik Standiki, İspinoz Spinos, Izgara Skara, Janbon Zambon, Kokoreç Kokoretsi, Karides Garides, Kaymak Kaimaki, Kaygana Kagkanos, Kaşar Kaseri, Kurabiye Kurambies, Levrek Lavraki, Midye Mydi, Orfoz Rofos, Palamut Palamida, Pasta Pasta, Pastırma Pastourmas, Pide Pita, Pirzola Brizola, Sardalya Sardela, Sazan Sazani, Sucuk Soutzouki, Şeker Zachari, Uskumru Skumbri Flower names: Açelya Azalea, Ananas Ananas, Anemon Anemonis, Bamya Bamia, Barbunya Barbunia, Biber Piperi, Bulgur Bligouri, Fasulye Fasoulia, Fulya Fulia, Ispanak Spanaki, Karanfil Karafilli, Kayısı Kaisi, Kestane Kastano, Kiraz Kerasi, Krizantem Krisantemi, Köknar Kukunari, Lahana Lahano, Limon Lemoni, Mandalina Mandarini, Manolya Manolia, Mantar Manitari, Marul Maruli, Maydanoz Maidanos, Muşmula Mousmoula, Ökaliptus Ev-Kalips, Papatya Papadia, Patates Patates, Patlıcan Patlatzani, Pırasa Praso, Portakal Portokali, Sümbül Zoumbouli, Vişne Visine, Yasemin Yasemi Most used daily equipment, kitchen, tool names: Anahtar Anahtari, Balyoz Balios, Cımbız Tsimpida, Çengel Tsingeli, Çember Tsemperi, Fener Fanari, Fırın Fournos, Fincan flitzani, Fıçı Foutsi, Fırça Fırtsas, Gübre Kopria, Halat Halati, İskemle İskemle, Istaka Steka, Izgara Skara, Kavanoz Kavanos, Kiler Kelari, Kilit Klidi Kiremit Keramidi, Kundak Kontaki, Kova Kouvas, Kümes Koumesi, Kutu Kouti, Lamba Lampa, Makara Makaras, Masa Maso, Mangal Mangali, Olta Olta, Pabuç Papoutsi, Patik Patiki, Sünger Sfungari, Semer Samari, Teneke Tenekes, Tepsi Tapsi, Tuğla Toublo, Vernik Verniki, and thousand others like that Greek person names: Açelya Azalea, Akasya (reborn), Ata-Athan (Immortal), Bora Bora, Defne (a tree), Delfin (Dolphin), Demet Demati, Diara Dilara, Eda (Generation) Eflatun (Light Purple), Dido, Esmerelda, Elmas (Jewellery), Fidan, Fide, Filiz Filizi, Fulya (a flower), Funda Funda, İdil, İlay-İlke (Light), Kiraz, Manolya Manolia, Melinda, Melisa, Menderes, Merve-Merme, Mete, Papatya Papadia, Pelin Pelini, Poyraz, Saba, Selen-Selin, Sibel, Sümbül Zoumbouli, Talya, Temel, Yasemin Yasemi and millions others names like that... These names are used constantly in Anatolia Daily used Greek cultural words in 'Turkey': Asparagas, Bre, Despot, Efendi, Faso fiso, Felek, Fiske, Gaf, Hovarda, İzmarit, Kalpazan, Kaparo, Karavana, Kerata, Külüstür, Manav, Paçavra, Paydos, Zevzek. Today most of the Aegean, Mediterranean and Black Sea society pronounce 'lahana' and 'kiraz' the way Greeks would pronounce. Almost everyone in those regions still use 'Turkish' accents like Greeks: Gelduk, cittuk, cezduk, kacduk etc. Today so called Turkish language have Armenian and Greek 7000-8000 words inside it and they are still assumed that these words are Turkish. In 1920, Turkish government prohibited the etymology studies so as not to allow Anatolians to know where their language come from!
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Post by depletedreasons on Nov 27, 2007 8:42:47 GMT -5
They still use the word Turkish to be correct at this century, that's why they use the word Turkish. But there are no decendants or Turk culture exist in Turkey. You are caught up with that misunderstanding as well. Europeans academics started to call Turkey as Turcia by the 12th century, because of Turks attacks and killings. This word was also connected to being muslim. So instead of calling anatolia as muslims they would call every muslims as Turks. Nobody misunderstands anything, but you. It is clear that you have no clue about who the Turks are and who they are not. Turks appeared in the Byzantine annals long before the 12th Century, not as some people killing and attacking them, but as their allies against the Persians and as a valuable trade partner enabling direct trade with China. If one looks at the Byzantine annals, then one could find the notes on Turks as early as the 6th Century. In fact, the Armenian annals goes even earlier. Nevertheless, these kind of DNA studies examine the relations between current and ancient populations, and as both studies indicate, the Etruscans are related to the modern Day Turks more than the modern day Italians of Italy, and ancient people of Mongolia are more related to the modern Day Turks compared to the current Central Asian populations. The studies you presented as evidence do not stipulate anything different. I would present another study on Cuman Turks who appeared in the Balkans centuries before the Ottomans: The Cumanians were originally Asian pastoral nomads who in the 13th century migrated to Hungary. We have examined mitochondrial DNA from members of the earliest Cumanian population in Hungary from two archeologically well-documented excavations and from 74 modern Hungarians from different rural locations in Hungary. Haplogroups were defined based on HVS I sequences and examinations of haplogroup-associated polymorphic sites of the protein coding region and of HVS II. To exclude contamination, some ancient DNA samples were cloned. A database was created from previously published mtDNA HVS I sequences (representing 2,615 individuals from different Asian and European populations) and 74 modem Hungarian sequences from the present study. This database was used to determine the relationships between the ancient Cumanians, modern Hungarians, and Eurasian populations and to estimate the genetic distances between these populations. We attempted to deduce the genetic trace of the migration of Cumanians. This study is the first ancient DNA characterization of an eastern pastoral nomad population that migrated into Europe. The results indicate that, while still possessing a Central Asian steppe culture, the Cumanians received a large admixture of maternal genes from more westerly populations before arriving in Hungary. A similar dilution of genetic, but not cultural, factors may have accompanied the settlement of other Asian nomads in Europe.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16596944&query_hl=10&itool=pubmed_docsum What they can not say is the fact that the ancestors of the Turks were around long before the 13th Century, and the Turks used to look like the modern day Hungarians or the modern day Turks rather than the modern day populations of Central Asia.
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Post by alabama on Nov 27, 2007 11:17:33 GMT -5
If you say that Turks were in Anatolia long before the 12th century, can you please give me proper DOCUMENTS and PROOF?
but just a reminder for you even Turkish government admits that Turks came to Anatolia with Mongols and other Turkish tribes during that migration to Anatolia after 11th century.
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Post by ahristos on Nov 27, 2007 11:32:53 GMT -5
it stings panturkist theory gardash in another topic you have debate that greeks use turkish words in stend of greek old peoples who are even today alives use those because havent study but today nobody says garden in greek kipos bakse and if some old person call it so meny dont get the meaning of this word at all greeks from m asia had problem in clear greek talking and when they have arrive in greece they had even communications problems also meny spoke greek but dond wrotte it at all
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Post by depletedreasons on Nov 27, 2007 11:38:34 GMT -5
Turkish Governments never had such claims. In fact, what they tried to prove that the Turks were the descendants of the Shumerians who returned back to Anatolia. The expansion of the Seljuk Empire started in the 11th Century, and the permanent wave of Seljuk migration began as of 1071, which was in the 11th Century. However, if you look at the current prime minister of Greece, then you could understand what I talk about. Karamanlis were the Turks who adopted Christianity and who settled in Byzantine territory before 12th Century, and they did not know to speak Greek until the the 20th Century. Quite amazing isn't it?
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Post by ahristos on Nov 27, 2007 13:53:05 GMT -5
at list hes name is turk karam Ali i dislike it.. we just call hem buli is popular name for prime ha ha.. baputs in turkish is sandal in greek is ipodima and not paputsi now we have other theory for those ritch turkish fammilies the theory says that are from phanariote mixtures and do bussines in Istanbul/Ankara turcels owners cucurova??? are grecobulgarians? ? i m not sure also others oglus... but in pre 1922 greece we havent any karaoglu names.. also in cyprus they have 100% archaics names Neocleus cleanthes ect we havent law for to rename ur self yet to meny young cuples the turkish name is heavy and for example girl keeps own fammily name then to get any karam Ali name this is BIG problem and complex to meny greeks to name them selfs turk ha ha it sounds funney but it happens but m asias greeks have in some%turkish names i dont get whow they took those names and when but turks clames that also kurds are turks ha ha gov says also so do they are serius???
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Post by Kastorianos on Nov 27, 2007 14:00:05 GMT -5
Of course you did. Look at shpatas old posts, that prove how much slav blood is found in southern albania for example. But why only slavs? There were other peoples living there...the albanians are as native to their land as were the Greeks of Asia Minor....
rofl..surely not...
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