|
Post by ahristos on Dec 9, 2007 23:49:39 GMT -5
shnakes turks get out from w thrace soils ur islamists try to fanatise muslems in greece cias reporte
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 10, 2007 3:23:52 GMT -5
Da Vinci was an Italian from Florence; and secondly, historical research doesnt work by probables. Hazerfan clear Da Vinci influences. The only thing is that Da Vinci did not have the resources to put his drawings to the test. Da Vinci's parents were most probably some migrant Arabs who emigrated to Italy, and most of his drawings were probably based upon the printed works of the earlier Islamic scholars, such as Al Jazari who was the founder of modern robotics, automation and engineering design. www.history-science-technology.com/Articles/articles%206.htmThe Hungarian guy was just an employed engineer of the Ottoman Turks amongst many others. After all, the Ottoman artillery group was populated with skilful designers and engineers, including Saruca Usta, Muslihiddin Usta who also worked on this project. Finally, the cannons were built in the Ottoman Empire, not in Hungary or elsewhere in Europe.
|
|
|
Post by alabama on Dec 10, 2007 4:05:24 GMT -5
This thread is NOW documented and proved by academics in Turkey. Today Turkish newspaper Sabah published an article which proves all of our claims. The professor name is Timucin Binder from Istanbul Technical University who says that there are only about 10% of little Turk gens in Anatolia and they were lost by the time it passed. Today, people living in Anatolia have 40.000 years history and central asian Turk migration was just a legend. To whom can read Turkish can access the article here: www.sabah.com.tr/haber,3FB722F1C5C04CCEB7FC21A7BC937B4C.html By the way Leonardo da Vinci's documents were brought to Constantinople by an Italian slave and Hezarfen Ahmet Celebi successed in his flying by following his instructions. This was shown in a movie called "Istanbul Kanatlarimin Altinda" (Istanbul, under my wings): www.imdb.com/title/tt0272142/
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 10, 2007 6:18:28 GMT -5
This thread is NOW documented and proved by academics in Turkey. Today Turkish newspaper Sabah published an article which proves all of our claims. The professor name is Timucin Binder from Istanbul Technical University who says that there are only about 10% of little Turk gens in Anatolia and they were lost by the time it passed. Today, people living in Anatolia have 40.000 years history and central asian Turk migration was just a legend. To whom can read Turkish can access the article here: www.sabah.com.tr/haber,3FB722F1C5C04CCEB7FC21A7BC937B4C.html By the way Leonardo da Vinci's documents were brought to Constantinople by an Italian slave and Hezarfen Ahmet Celebi successed in his flying by following his instructions. This was shown in a movie called "Istanbul Kanatlarimin Altinda" (Istanbul, under my wings): www.imdb.com/title/tt0272142/The scientist only suggests that it is almost impossible to calculate the effects of migration from Central Asia to Turkey, and he states that there is no Turkish gene or Oghuz gene to make the distinction. Hazerfan Celebi used a lot of resources, but the movie points out some connection with Da Vinci since it was a Turkish-Italian production.
|
|
|
Post by chalkedon on Dec 10, 2007 6:35:43 GMT -5
you guys do know that you are complimenting them when you tell them that their genes are of anatolians and not original turks.
|
|
|
Post by alabama on Dec 10, 2007 7:25:23 GMT -5
Here is a wonderful example of how Fuzuli (who is still one of the most popular Ottoman Poet) thought of Anatolia:
It must be remembered that the Shiite imams in their time had not opposed the Abbasid caliphate, and that a theory of the caliphate different from that of the Ash’arite school formed by the philosophers, authorized the Ottoman sultan Suleyman the magnificient to be considered caliph. In this respect, it must have been of particular importance for Fuzuli that his ruler had taken possession of Baghdad, the ancient seat of the caliphs, and that, besides promoting religion with impartiality, he was waging a holy war against infidels. Sultan Suleyman reigned over the holy cities of Mecca and Medina and finally he was the most powerful Muslim soverign of his time, having dominion over Turks, Persians, and Arabs (page 16). why do an Ottoman Sultan dominate its own ethnic if Ottomans were Turkish?
*Leyla and Mejnun – Fuzuli; translated by Sofi Huri. Introduction and Notes by Alessio Bombaci. London. UNESCO 1970. ISBN 04 890003 6
Throughout his life, Fuzuli never left Mesopotamia although he cherished the ambition to be listened to at court. As a young man, he dreamt of going to Tabriz: ‘O Fuzuli, it would seem that your heart does not want to hear of Baghdad since you would gaze fondly upon Tabriz the seat of pleasures”. Later he turns his eyes to Constantinople and in a couplet similar to the preceding one; the land of Rum (the land of Greek or rather Anatolia, the Byzantine ‘Rome’) takes the place of Tabriz. ‘O Fuzuli! My heart, which you see a prisoner in the torment of Baghdad would prepare to go to the land of Rum – sear of pleasures’. The poet says the same thing in another couplet: ‘O Fuzuli! If thou shouldst wish to grow in virtue (fazl), turn to the land of Rum, and abandon the land of Baghdad’ (page 20).
On the other hand some of Fuzuli’s lines speak of a ‘Christian youth’ or of a ‘son of a janissary’ (page 26).
*Leyla and Mejnun – Fuzuli; translated by Sofi Huri. Introduction and Notes by Alessio Bombaci. London. UNESCO 1970. ISBN 04 890003 6
Behind the scenes of how Anatolians have been Turkfied
In 1920s, Ataturk gave the name of Turk to who a Muslim society (Musluman milleti), thus Muslim name equalled being a Turk. Also, ‘millet’ means religious group in Arabic. Especially, when you ask Balkan Muslims which religion you belong to, then they will answer you “Elhamdulillah I am Turk”. Namely there are important numbers of Muslim people in Greece, Bulgaria, Kosovo or Albania who call themselves Turk. However, they are not ethnically Turk.
Furthermore, 1924, the population exchange between Greece and Turkey was based on religion rather than race. Approximately 1.5 million Christian was departed from Turkey to Greece as well as departing 500.000 Muslims from Greece to Turkey (even though they were not Turks). Because of that, most of the Muslim people in Balkans started to call themselves Turkish as opposed a Muslim.
Ataturk and his Turkish History Thesis The main reason of Anatolians being Turkfied was Ataturk and his own thesis Turkish History Thesis. He created this rule in 1930s. Here are the claims of this thesis: - Civilization first began in Central Asia (however, civilization was never visible in Central Asia). - Central Asia is the place where white men come from (oh really, scientist proved that we all spread from Africa to first Europe then Asia). - After the massive Turkish migration from Central Asia, Turks settled down in many places and they started civilization in the world (you joking right). - The first society in Anatolia was Hittites and they were Turks who came from Central Asia (wow, very impressive ha). - Etruks who set up Rome were Turks who came from Central Asia (really?)
According to this thesis, Hittites, Sumerians, Greeks, Etruks, etc are Turkish. Moreover, it says that the land from China to Europe include only Turks. Once Ataturk said “This land was Turkish once upon a time, then it is Turkish, thus, it will be Turkish forever” - “Bu memleket tarihte Türk’tü, o halde Türk’tür ve ebediyen Türk olarak yaşayacaktır.” So Ataturk does not recognize Kurds, Greeks, Sumerians, Hittites etc.
By the way, Ataturk was a military person who never studied Anthropology, Sociology, Ethics, Ethnology, Linguistic studies and this thesis of his rule Turkey now.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Dec 10, 2007 10:51:45 GMT -5
Da Vinci has no trace of Arab lineage. Not only were his parents Florentine, but they were rural Florentines. And what his own influences were are of no significance since Im not the one saying that he had some sort of superiority. He was influenced by the east like he influenced it later. But anyway, considering how DaVinci had no formal education, it seems unlikely that he was under deep influence(meaning that he read the works of Arab scholars) since its unlikely that he was introduced to them. His drawings were his own work and he was influenced principally by the Italian world around him.
Stop trying to find cop-outs to support your own twisted view of superiority.
Location doesnt change anything. It was the Ottomans who had the wealth then to support such things.
And as for you Greeks here, your thingy envy is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. As for saying that not having Turkic blood is an honor, tell me, when have Greeks ever ruled over Turks?
Considering the location of the Turks, it would be unlikely that the Byzantines would come into contact with gunpowder before Turks.
|
|
|
Post by alabama on Dec 10, 2007 11:44:37 GMT -5
Even Ataturk was probably Turkicized...... There so called 'great' Modern 'Turkish' leader may have had non Turkish ancestry...... JanissaryofByzantium i dont see how hard it is to believe..... Yes. He was born in Thessaloniki, however, he is Macedonian.
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 10, 2007 12:03:06 GMT -5
Da Vinci has no trace of Arab lineage. Not only were his parents Florentine, but they were rural Florentines. And what his own influences were are of no significance since Im not the one saying that he had some sort of superiority. He was influenced by the east like he influenced it later. But anyway, considering how DaVinci had no formal education, it seems unlikely that he was under deep influence(meaning that he read the works of Arab scholars) since its unlikely that he was introduced to them. His drawings were his own work and he was influenced principally by the Italian world around him. Stop trying to find cop-outs to support your own twisted view of superiority. Leonardo Da Vinci may have been an Arab, according to scientists who have studied a single, complete fingerprint found on one of his paintings.www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/07/wleonardo107.xmlI think he was a Christian Arab.
|
|
|
Post by meltdown711 on Dec 10, 2007 15:23:38 GMT -5
This doesnt show anything remotely conclusive. As per the general concensus, he was a Florentine Italian. You can believe what you want, but dont try and portray it as somehow valid.
|
|
|
Post by greek1234 on Dec 10, 2007 23:27:18 GMT -5
Leonardo Da Vinci was an Italian and a Roman Catholic.
|
|
|
Post by chalkedon on Dec 11, 2007 6:01:45 GMT -5
It seems some ppl are ashamed of their true origins Forty thousand years ?!!! ;D Survey reveals that genetically Turks are closer to Greeks Turkish daily Sabah newspaper (10.12.07) gives extensive coverage in its first page to a research carried out by a young Turkish Anthropologist regarding genes of the population in Turkey. The article under the title: “Migrating from the Central Asia is a Myth” and writes that the genes of the present inhabitants of Anatolia show that they are here for the last forty thousand years. Their genes are closer to the Greeks and Iranians than to the Uzbeks, Turkmen and Kyrgyz. The genes of the majority of the people living in Turkey today go back to forty thousand years, the paper reports. “Genetically we are closer to the Greeks and the Iranians. Genetically we have no relation with the Uzbeks Turkmen and Kyrgyz,” writes the paper. www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/All/BB7F70BCFA235B02C22573AD00406AF8?OpenDocument
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 11, 2007 7:27:44 GMT -5
It seems some ppl are ashamed of their true origins Forty thousand years ?!!! ;D Survey reveals that genetically Turks are closer to Greeks Turkish daily Sabah newspaper (10.12.07) gives extensive coverage in its first page to a research carried out by a young Turkish Anthropologist regarding genes of the population in Turkey. The article under the title: “Migrating from the Central Asia is a Myth” and writes that the genes of the present inhabitants of Anatolia show that they are here for the last forty thousand years. Their genes are closer to the Greeks and Iranians than to the Uzbeks, Turkmen and Kyrgyz. The genes of the majority of the people living in Turkey today go back to forty thousand years, the paper reports. “Genetically we are closer to the Greeks and the Iranians. Genetically we have no relation with the Uzbeks Turkmen and Kyrgyz,” writes the paper. www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/All/BB7F70BCFA235B02C22573AD00406AF8?OpenDocumentI am not sure who are ashamed of their true origins here, but I could proudly tell you that my forefathers were the Karachay-Balkar Turks of Caucasus who descended from the Volga Bolgars and the Cumans. Nevertheless, the information provided by the Cyprus government is incomplete, if it is not false. The Turkish scientist in the given article examines the racial traits of the Turks of Turkey, and concludes that the Turks of Turkey is genetically more closer to the Greeks and Iranians compared to the Turkic populations of Central Asia. However, he also notes that it is impossible to calculate the overall effects of Turkish migration since there is no Turkish or Oghuz gene to track down. In other words, the Turkish scientist speaks in the genetic codes, not ethnic ones. Since the Turks ruled the Greeks and Iranians for many centuries, it is not shocking to find similarities amongst those peoples. Perhaps, that is why, the prime minister of Greece is a person who descended from the Karaman Turks. After all, I am sure Karaman Turks were racially closer to the Iranians and the Greeks compared to the current populations of Central Asia even when they settled in Anatolia. Thus, bear in mind that the ancestors of Turks (as examples given below also demonstrate) did not share much racial features with the current Turkic populations of Central Asia as anticipated by some extremist Europeans who still suffer from inferiority complex in relation to the Turks. ;D Etruscan findings from Italy: We chose the Basques as representative of western Europe, the Turks as representative of the eastern Mediterranean region, Karelians and Volga Finns as representative of northeastern Europe, and Egyptians and Algerians as representative of North Africa.
In particular, the Turkish component in their gene pool appears three times as large as in the other populations. These admixture estimates are not to be taken at their face value, for numerous assumptions underlie their estimation. Here they only serve to show that, with respect to modern Italian gene pools, the Etruscan one contains an excess of haplotypes suggesting evolutionary ties with the populations of the southern and eastern Mediterranean shores.
On the contrary, the similarity between the Etruscan and Turkish gene pools may indeed reflect some degree of gene flow. Commercial exchanges are documented between the Etruscan harbours and Asia Minor (Tykot 1994) and trading is often accompanied by interbreeding, ultimately leading to detectable levels of genetic affinity (see Relethford and Crawford 1995). Thus, the present study suggests that gene flow from the eastern (and possibly southern) Mediterranean shores, not necessarily from Lydia as proposed by Herodotus, left a mark in the Etruscan gene pool, above and beyond what is observed in contemporary Italy. www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1181945One from Mongolia: Skeletons from the most recent graves also contained DNA sequences similar to those in people from present-day Turkey. This supports other studies indicating that Turkish tribes originated at least in part in Mongolia at the end of the Xiongnu period. www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.shtmlOne from Hungary:The Cumanians were originally Asian pastoral nomads who in the 13th century migrated to Hungary. We have examined mitochondrial DNA from members of the earliest Cumanian population in Hungary from two archeologically well-documented excavations and from 74 modern Hungarians from different rural locations in Hungary.
Haplogroups were defined based on HVS I sequences and examinations of haplogroup-associated polymorphic sites of the protein coding region and of HVS II. To exclude contamination, some ancient DNA samples were cloned. A database was created from previously published mtDNA HVS I sequences (representing 2,615 individuals from different Asian and European populations) and 74 modem Hungarian sequences from the present study. This database was used to determine the relationships between the ancient Cumanians, modern Hungarians, and Eurasian populations and to estimate the genetic distances between these populations.
We attempted to deduce the genetic trace of the migration of Cumanians. This study is the first ancient DNA characterization of an eastern pastoral nomad population that migrated into Europe. The results indicate that, while still possessing a Central Asian steppe culture, the Cumanians received a large admixture of maternal genes from more westerly populations before arriving in Hungary. A similar dilution of genetic, but not cultural, factors may have accompanied the settlement of other Asian nomads in Europe.www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16596944&query_hl=10&itool=pubmed_docsum One from Chuvashia: The Chuvash are believed to have originated from Turkic-Altaic Bulgar tribes who migrated in the 4th century A.D. from Central Asia together with the Huns to the western region of the Volga River. The ancestors of the Chuvash were also found as seminomadic tribes of ancient Bulgars who lived in the North Caucasus steppes in the 5th to 8th centuries. In the 7th to 8th centuries a portion of the Bulgars left for the Balkans, while another subdivision moved to the mid-Volga region and made up the ethnic base of the Chuvash and Kazan Tatars.
HLA alleles have been determined for the first time in individuals from the Chuvashian population by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, and -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have also been determined, and the results compared to those for Central Europeans, Siberians and other Asians, Caucasians, Middle Easterners, and Mediterranean peoples. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms, and correspondence analysis have been performed. Present-day Chuvash speak an Altaic-Turkic language and are genetically related to Caucasians (Georgians), Mediterraneans, and Middle Easterners, and not only to Central or Northern Europeans; Chuvash contain little indications of Central Asian-Altaic gene flow. Thus, present-day Chuvash who speak an Altaic-Turkic language are probably more closely related to ancient Mesopotamian-Hittites and northern European populations than to central Asia-Altaic people.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200306/ai_n9288054
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 11, 2007 7:33:52 GMT -5
This doesnt show anything remotely conclusive. As per the general concensus, he was a Florentine Italian. You can believe what you want, but dont try and portray it as somehow valid. Yeah, it is more conclusive compared to your humble opinions.
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 11, 2007 7:37:22 GMT -5
Leonardo Da Vinci was an Italian and a Roman Catholic. and you are the descendants of Zeus, Apollo, Leto and Venus. ;D ;D ;D
|
|
Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
|
Post by Kanaris on Dec 11, 2007 8:32:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by depletedreasons on Dec 11, 2007 8:59:18 GMT -5
No..we are the descendants of the Cro Magnon man... you are of the Neanderthal... You are very mistaken, Canaris. ;D Greeks are related to the Faunus man. ;D Here is the ancient Greek sculpture evidencing the true origins of the Greeks.
|
|
|
Post by slowdent on Dec 11, 2007 16:40:00 GMT -5
amazing
all this time and Mr Janissary did not change at all.
How are you Jan? trying to rewrite history so that you can place turkey on the map?
wazzzzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaaa?
|
|
Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,587
|
Post by Kanaris on Dec 11, 2007 17:57:33 GMT -5
Where were the Turks..when that statue was made? proto Turks>>>>> ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Dec 11, 2007 18:54:54 GMT -5
and thats even too much canari... ;D
|
|